Atari vs. Nintendo - Youtube video

[toptenmaterial]

Is the 500xj on the NES as good as it is on other systems? Microswitches for good feedback, nice short throw, tough as hell--it's got all the checkboxes. It's probably a bit weird to use on that system, but I generally take it over competition pro on other systems. Unless they screwed up the NES version, it should be in the same league, I would think.

 

It's funny, I've encountered quite a few people on AtariAge who aren't keen on d-pads. Especially when it comes to arcade conversions. But as for me, I've never been partial to joysticks. I think that it has to do with what format originally indoctrinated us. The first time that I played Pac-Man was on an IBM, and used the four directions on the keypad. One of the first games that my sister and I bought was Donkey Kong Jr on the NES. I have played the same game on the 7800 as an adult, and, while it's a fine conversion, I dig the NES controller more because it's what I cut my gaming teeth on.

[Shinju]

The US 7800 was horrible, the Euro 7800 controllers are good but a little small for dudes like me with large meat hook.

 

 

Makes you wonder how the market would have been if Atari said yes to Nintendo on making their Famicom system here.

[+Gemintronic]

It's funny, I've encountered quite a few people on AtariAge who aren't keen on d-pads. Especially when it comes to arcade conversions. But as for me, I've never been partial to joysticks. I think that it has to do with what format originally indoctrinated us. The first time that I played Pac-Man was on an IBM, and used the four directions on the keypad. One of the first games that my sister and I bought was Donkey Kong Jr on the NES. I have played the same game on the 7800 as an adult, and, while it's a fine conversion, I dig the NES controller more because it's what I cut my gaming teeth on.

 

I have to agree with your assessment. However, I grew up with Atari 2600, Coleco, INTV and NES on up. By FAR the easiest, most intuitive controllers (for me) have been the NES and Playstation. Arcade sticks give me hand cramps. I'd much rather have Nintendo thumb.

[Vic George 2K3]

Nintendo had a slanted victory in the 8-bit market era, whether people want to admit it as truth or not. It wasn't until the 16-bit era that other companies like Sega even had a chance to draw people away from "the almighty Nintendo", and I say "good on them" for being able to do so.

[toptenmaterial]

Nintendo had a slanted victory in the 8-bit market era, whether people want to admit it as truth or not. It wasn't until the 16-bit era that other companies like Sega even had a chance to draw people away from "the almighty Nintendo", and I say "good on them" for being able to do so.

 

I agree with you because the facts stand for themselves. When you are looking back at the past from an adult's perspective, it's really hard to ignore all of the scuzzy shit that Nintendo did. However, I think that Nintendo gave birth to a lot of stuff that their competitors ended up doing. Look at the 7800, and the selection of games was all pre-crash in genre. Now, I know Nintendo had it on lock and Atari lost their games division, but they then only made a half-hearted effort to crank out the platformers and beat ''em ups. The rest are all arcade ports.

[MrMaddog]

Wow those idiots on this youtube vid think that the Nintendo Seal of Quality was about the games.

The Seal of Quality just meant said cartridge worked in the console, even for games like Taboo The sixth sense (a Rare game, btw) or Godzilla (Famicom/NES has far 'worst' rubbish games than VCS)

 

The "Seal of Quality" meant that 3rd party puiblishers paid a lot of money for the exclusive right to make games for the NES and having to follow the BS rules on censorship while not making anything for other systems. A vast majority of NES were pure medicore garbage with only a few titles still remembered as being good. (Why you think AVGN has so much material for his videos?)

 

I thought this video was relevant to the topic. Also pick out as many inaccuracies as possible.................. I say that not to hate on Atari, but lets face it Nintendo deserved to win this battle. Its funny I am a child of the NES generation and my interest in vintage consoles started with my NES collection. Now I spend a lot more time with Atari products then Nintendo, but this commercial is still very laughable to me.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ic0nvtNfDRM

 

As a junior high student at the time, I rather have a home computer to use for school work (and play games) than some toy robot. For the record I had a 130XE computer that can play the XEGS carts, but had to get a NES because no stores in town sold games for other systems and the nearest malls that did were an hour's drive away.

 

Summary of the video for anyone who doesn't want to watch.

 

Nintendo! RAH! RAH! RAH!

 

That's the sort of revisionist history that pisses me off, because they think that Nintendo was a great company when everyone else sucked completely ignore the fact that their monopoly forced other game systems to not have any 3rd party titles. How could Atari and Sega compete when they couldn't have any titles in stores that are not big chain stores? And yes the other factor was that Atari also dropped the ball not only during the crash but through bad managment afterwards. (Sega pretty much gave up the SMS in the States by handing it to Tonka before taking back after releasing the Genesis). I do understand now that NOA had to have strict control to prevent another Game Crash, but nevertheless we basically had one game system to choose from and they were all censored G-rated stuff; which sucked if you were an older gamer or even a teenage one. In other regions where there was no exclusivity, other 8-bit systems did better than the NES (PC Engine in Japan and SMS in Europe & Brazil). So while the Big N had some very good titles, overall it was quantity over quality. Once the Genesis came out and later when 3rd parties were allowed to make games for that and the SNES, then you saw some really good games that resulted from the competition of the two companies.

[8th lutz]

I remembered that era well enough. I did not get a Nes before 1991 though despite playing it at other people's houses before than.

 

In early 1988, My Dad and I went to Toy"r"Us for me to pick a game console to buy. There was a Nes, SMS, Atari 2600 Jr., Atari 7800, and Atari XEGS. I looked at the systems and the games. I remembered the Nes having the biggest game libarary at the time in the store. I ended up with an Atari 2600 jr. since price the games was a factor at the time

 

While I was 9 in early 1988, something seemed odd with the amount of games Nes had compare to its compeititors in the store. When I was a teenager, thinking was correct since it was revealed that Nintendo had a 3rd party Monoply. Nes was going to win no matter what without a third party monoply for North America. It boils to the fact Nintendo had the best 1st party games, and would have had a bigger game Libarary than the SMS or the Atari 7800 anyway.

 

The percentage of the market would have changed though for North America for the Nes if there was no third party monoply with SMS not being behind the 7800 in System Sales in North America. The fact is Nintendo's 3rd party monoply caused 3rd parties not doing games for multiple platforms.

 

What would happen is Sega would have waited to released the Sega Genesis in Japan for 1989 or 1990 instead because North America would have been more successful for the SMS. That means the specs of the Genesis would have improved some and Sega Might not have been so desperate for an add-on.

[karokoenig]

we basically had one game system to choose from and they were all censored G-rated stuff; which sucked if you were an older gamer or even a teenage one. In other regions where there was no exclusivity, other 8-bit systems did better than the NES (PC Engine in Japan and SMS in Europe & Brazil).

Precisely right. And not to forget computers. In Germany, my perception was that almost everyone older than like 10 years - including myself - went from the 2600 right on to the Commodore 64. We saw the NES as a pure kid's toy. Enjoyed the badass anarchy that was the C64 game library of the time instead, AND learned a wee bit of basic programming.

[high voltage]

Yeah, I'm glad NES wasn't 'king of the castle' in Europe, as said, we went from VCS to A8 or C64 (or the worst deal, the Brits had to endure the Spectrum).

Mind you in USA you still had the Apple ][ going strong with IBM and C64 gathering a strong following (CGW was high selling during the late 80s)

Edited May 2, 2013 by high voltage

[Algus]

I love my toaster and despite its problems it has won my heart for some of its legendary games.

 

That said, I really respect the SMS. Sure the physical carts aren't much to look at but its light, hard to damage, and handles well. It might be my favorite console physically. I love the idea of the card port for cheaper games and wish it had been used more. SMS Cards and TG-16 HuCards are one of my favorite formats.

 

Games were pretty too. If the licensing hadn't been such a nightmare, SMS vs. NES could have been great.

[toptenmaterial]

The US 7800 was horrible, the Euro 7800 controllers are good but a little small for dudes like me with large meat hook.

 

 

Makes you wonder how the market would have been if Atari said yes to Nintendo on making their Famicom system here.

 

I used to think that the famicom would have rejuvinated Atari, but now I doubt it. The latter days of WB Atari were marred by really bad management and everything they touched seemed to turn to shit. The famicom would have just gone under like everything else.

[toptenmaterial]

Precisely right. And not to forget computers. In Germany, my perception was that almost everyone older than like 10 years - including myself - went from the 2600 right on to the Commodore 64. We saw the NES as a pure kid's toy. Enjoyed the badass anarchy that was the C64 game library of the time instead, AND learned a wee bit of basic programming.

 

Hey out of pure curiousity did you guys have to deal with government censorship? For example, I believe that Germany and British Commonwealth countries had some film censorship. Did that affect the "big kid" games in Germany or the UK?

[karokoenig]

Hey out of pure curiousity did you guys have to deal with government censorship? For example, I believe that Germany and British Commonwealth countries had some film censorship. Did that affect the "big kid" games in Germany or the UK?

 

Didn't affect us really. There was of course censorship like adult rating, or even forbidden games. There was a very healthy hacker scene in Germany, though, and usually we got cracked versions of any game sooner or later.

[SoulBlazer]

Didn't affect us really. There was of course censorship like adult rating, or even forbidden games. There was a very healthy hacker scene in Germany, though, and usually we got cracked versions of any game sooner or later.

Including games like Wolfenstein and Doom? Has the censorship loosened up any there since the 80 and 90's?

[toptenmaterial]

Including games like Wolfenstein and Doom? Has the censorship loosened up any there since the 80 and 90's?

 

I was thinking the same thing. In the era that karokoenig was talking about, it wasn't that graphic yet... but there were the 2600 porno titles that our American constitution protects so vigarously! I think that the blood and guts controversy probably started with the 2D fighters... remember Nintendo of America censoring blood, and then Sega releasing MK with all the blood! Maybe disturbing DOS/NES games like Shadowgate and Uninvited might have fallen into that catagory; I personally find those kinds of games much more chilling than anything gory.

[high voltage]

In 1985 Germany banned River Raid:

 

In West Germany, River Raid was the first videogame to be banned for minors by being put on the Index by the Bundesprüfstelle für jugendgefährdende Schriften (Federal Department for Writings Harmful to Young Persons; today Bundesprüfstelle für jugendgefährdende Medien, Federal Department for Media Harmful to Young Persons in German).

In the explanatory statement for indexation on December 19, 1984 it is written: "Minors are intended to delve into the role of an uncompromising fighter and agent of annihilation (...). It provides children with a paramilitaristic education (...). With older minors, playing leads (...) to physical cramps, anger, aggressiveness, erratic thinking (...) and headaches." (BPjS-Aktuell Heft 2/84)

River Raid remained indexed as harmful to minors until 2002 when a publisher successfully lobbied to remove the game from the index in order to rerelease it in the Activision Anthology for the PlayStation 2. The anthology was rated "Free for all ages" by the "Unterhaltungssoftware Selbstkontrolle".

 

So playing River Raid made all Germans NAZIS

 

 

Censorship is still high in Germany, you are still not allowed to public write about or display Golden Eye for example (I am not allowed to sell it on ebay.de for example (only as a business seller I can), neither Mortal Kombat (got it pulled twice from ebay.de))

There are still new games (I believe the ones with an 18 rating) which are not allowed to be advertised in shop windows or reviewed in magazines. Germany is sometimes like 1942, the politicians would love to impose their fascism onto their peers.

 

Of course, if you live near the boarders of France, Austria, you can purchase any German 18 rated game from those countries at the age of 16......

Edited May 2, 2013 by high voltage

[karokoenig]

Including games like Wolfenstein and Doom? Has the censorship loosened up any there since the 80 and 90's?

 

Well, in Germany, depiction of Nazi symbols is strictly forbidden in any context, for obvious reasons. I learned about Wolfenstein due to the Nazi soldier sprite in the secret level you play after beating Space Taxi :-).

[Dripfree]

whoa I loved space taxi. It was my favorite game on my gramps 64. I was never good enuf to beat it back then was there really a swastika level?

[karokoenig]

whoa I loved space taxi. It was my favorite game on my gramps 64. I was never good enuf to beat it back then was there really a swastika level?

 

Not exactly a swastika level. It was just a secret level that features characters out of other games from the company. One of the characters was a Nazi soldier from Wolfenstein walking back and forth. Here's a longplay video. The secret level starts at 33.35.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEcxgPvmQqU

[toptenmaterial]

Well, in Germany, depiction of Nazi symbols is strictly forbidden in any context, for obvious reasons.

 

Sort of off-topic here, but interesting nontheless:

 

I seem to remember talking to my German friend Willis about this. If I am not mistaken here, there were some exception. For example, he loved assembling model planes as a kid, and Luftwaffe planes have the swatsitca on them.

 

But I guess that it would be hard to argue that Wolfenstien is historically accurate.

Edited May 3, 2013 by toptenmaterial

[karokoenig]

Sort of off-topic here, but interesting nontheless:

 

I seem to remember talking to my German friend Willis about this. If I am not mistaken here, there were some exception. For example, he loved assembling model planes as a kid, and Luftwaffe planes have the swatsitca on them.

 

I don't think that's correct. Usually, the plane and warship assembly kits just had/have the different military symbols, but no swastika. I remember assembling a large model of the Bismarck myself. It was a Tamiya model, and the flags were specially made for german sales without the swastika. The one on the Bismarck's deck on the box was blackened.

 

But I guess that it would be hard to argue that Wolfenstien is historically accurate.

 

Not 100%, you're right :-).