+bob1200xl Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 OK... Can you folks tell me what kind of 65816 that you want? Kind of a survey. Let me tell you what I have working: 65816 with selectable clock speeds - 1.79mhz, 7.16mhz, and 14.32mhz. Some programs fail at high speeds because of cycle-counting, I believe. So, you can set whatever speed you want. It will survive RESET. 512K of linear memory. Addresses from $000000 to $07FFFF are available at full speed using the 65816 linear addressing mode. Almost finished: 256K of RAMBO memory utilizing bits 2,3,5, and 6. 128K of XE mode memory using bits 2,3,and 6. Selectable. Separate from and concurrent with the linear memory, but runs at 7.16mhz. Battery backed 512K chip. The remaining 256K will hold system code (OS, PBI code, 8K internal cartridge, and such) Will survive power-down. Will add: SDHC interface for mass storage using PBI protocol. Features: A drop-in. No wiring to the motherboard or chips. I am currently using the 800XL PCB in a 1200XL, in which case you have to remove the audio modulator coil from the 1200XL motherboard. You can either de-solder the coil or just clip it out. 10 minute reversible install if you have sockets. So... You can have a 512K 65816 today. Or, you can wait for the extended memory tomorrow. Or, you can hold out for the MAX system somewhere down the road. Or, you can suggest needed additions to make this more useful. I'm adding what I would want - but I'm just one guy. No: XEs 6502. Video stuff. More SRAM memory, DRAM or the like. I refer to this project as the XL14. It has run in an 800XL, a 600XL(!), and a 1200XL. The 600XL and 800XL have serious space problems, but they do work. How much? I dunno... $100? How about a Dutch auction for 10 units? Let me know... Bob 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faicuai Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 Interesting... ...Suddenly, several "turbo-CPU" upgrade options have popped-out, lately. At a high level, I would only recommend a modular and elegant design, complying with at least the following criteria: MINIMAL profile / footprint, drop-in / solder-less (absolutely minimal, like being able to fit under existing shields is a good benchmark, if possible). XL14-v1: $99.95, for systems with NO other RAM / ROM or similar upgrades (XL14 should be fully loaded). XL14-v2: $49.95, for systems with Ultimate-1MB RAM/ROM/BIOS/PBI-bios. This one should be the same as Version-1 but less ICs / components. XL14-v3: $??.??, for systems with INCOGNITO. This should be the MOTHER of all CPU upgrades, as the 800's CPU board also boasts most of the system's custom ICs (6502c, ANTIC, GTIA, etc.). Plenty of surface / geometry freedom to build the Atari of "our dreams". Just my 0.02c Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Larry Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 FWIW... Love the selectable clock speeds, especially 1.79 and 14.32. That is a cool feature! XE expanded memory is "nice to have" but few things use it. Rambo is certainly more useful. If it would come to "either-or" I'd vote for 256KB of Rambo. Internal Basic working in the 800XL. Full PBI working in the 800XL so that at least the IDE+2 works. It would be nice if the "legacy" PBI devices like the Black Box and the MIO could work, but that might be difficult. MyDos (4.55 B3) now works perfectly with the MIO's internal ram as a regular swappable ramdisk. So it would be great if it did work with the XL14. That way, the XL14 would be "complete" even without the expanded memory option. Please tell us more about your ideas for how the SD card would work? I'd put this in an 800XL (in a heartbeat.) -Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 Selectable clock speed a must-have. At the least an option for 1.79. Changable on the fly would be nice but not critical. Maybe something along the lines of being able to allocate a block of Ram that gets write-protected and becomes the 16K OS Rom. Thanks to IDE class devices it becomes feasible to have a multitude of easily modifyable and bootable OSes. Compatability with the likes of VBXE and IDE +2. Ultimate Atari would be a turbo CPU and VBXE, then we're talking Amiga 1200 competitor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+bob1200xl Posted August 19, 2013 Author Share Posted August 19, 2013 The XL14 has four components on the main PCB - the 65816, a 512K SRAM, a clock chip, and the CPLD. You can 'unplug' the SDHC interface or the RAMBO/XE memory and still have a functional XL14, but you need all the stuff on the main XL14 PCB. Don't know if it will work with an Ultimate, but I'm sure it will not work in any kind of INCOGNITO. Interesting... ...Suddenly, several "turbo-CPU" upgrade options have popped-out, lately. At a high level, I would only recommend a modular and elegant design, complying with at least the following criteria: MINIMAL profile / footprint, drop-in / solder-less (absolutely minimal, like being able to fit under existing shields is a good benchmark, if possible). XL14-v1: $99.95, for systems with NO other RAM / ROM or similar upgrades (XL14 should be fully loaded). XL14-v2: $49.95, for systems with Ultimate-1MB RAM/ROM/BIOS/PBI-bios. This one should be the same as Version-1 but less ICs / components. XL14-v3: $??.??, for systems with INCOGNITO. This should be the MOTHER of all CPU upgrades, as the 800's CPU board also boasts most of the system's custom ICs (6502c, ANTIC, GTIA, etc.). Plenty of surface / geometry freedom to build the Atari of "our dreams". Just my 0.02c Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+bob1200xl Posted August 19, 2013 Author Share Posted August 19, 2013 The SD card will be a PBI device that acts as many large HDDs or many, many FDDs. It will be configurable - much like the WIDE system. Bob FWIW... Love the selectable clock speeds, especially 1.79 and 14.32. That is a cool feature! XE expanded memory is "nice to have" but few things use it. Rambo is certainly more useful. If it would come to "either-or" I'd vote for 256KB of Rambo. Internal Basic working in the 800XL. Full PBI working in the 800XL so that at least the IDE+2 works. It would be nice if the "legacy" PBI devices like the Black Box and the MIO could work, but that might be difficult. MyDos (4.55 B3) now works perfectly with the MIO's internal ram as a regular swappable ramdisk. So it would be great if it did work with the XL14. That way, the XL14 would be "complete" even without the expanded memory option. Please tell us more about your ideas for how the SD card would work? I'd put this in an 800XL (in a heartbeat.) -Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+bob1200xl Posted August 19, 2013 Author Share Posted August 19, 2013 There are 3 clock speeds available at any time. If I have enough room in the CPLD, I will have protected SRAM for the PBI code, OS and an internal 8K cart. All loadable from the battery-backed SRAM (256K of space). I don't know about the VBXE. Someone should try it on an XL14. Is it all in the I/O space or does it use RAM? Bob Selectable clock speed a must-have. At the least an option for 1.79. Changable on the fly would be nice but not critical. Maybe something along the lines of being able to allocate a block of Ram that gets write-protected and becomes the 16K OS Rom. Thanks to IDE class devices it becomes feasible to have a multitude of easily modifyable and bootable OSes. Compatability with the likes of VBXE and IDE +2. Ultimate Atari would be a turbo CPU and VBXE, then we're talking Amiga 1200 competitor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toad Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 (edited) I want vbxe and turbo card. Edit: looks like you just answered that.....nm Edited August 19, 2013 by toad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Jefferson Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 Bob, can your upgrade run Draco's 65816 OS? http://drac030.krap.pl/en-specyfikacja.php Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candle Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 Bob, but you do have vbxe as far as I remember, why not checking it? as for ultimate, if it touches MMU it won't work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+bob1200xl Posted August 19, 2013 Author Share Posted August 19, 2013 I am using the XL14 board that fits in an 800XL in a 1200XL. If you look at the picture, you will see that the board sits too close to the GTIA for both boards to mount. The XL14 moves the MMU up into the CPLD. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danwinslow Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 I'd be interested in any of the options, but mostly the two that are ready/almost ready. I'd sure pay $100 for an xl14, probably three or four of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Larry Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 Will the boards that you may Dutch auction do 14 MHz or 7 (with a cartridge)? -Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candle Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 touching MMU renders it useless with U1MB, and the other one is quite popular i'm affride (assuming 500+ sold) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Larry Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 "and the other one is quite popular i'm affride" Which "other one" -- VBXE? -Larry touching MMU renders it useless with U1MB, and the other one is quite popular i'm affride (assuming 500+ sold) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+bob1200xl Posted August 19, 2013 Author Share Posted August 19, 2013 I am going to do my best to make the current PCBs upward compatible (just a CPLD change) with future options, but I can't guarantee that. If you look at the current config there is a memory board that plugs into one of the ROM sockets - that board may change. The empty flat cable is the interface to the SDHC card. If it all works as planned... Bob I'd be interested in any of the options, but mostly the two that are ready/almost ready. I'd sure pay $100 for an xl14, probably three or four of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+bob1200xl Posted August 19, 2013 Author Share Posted August 19, 2013 Not sure what you mean... all versions will run at 14, 7 or 1.79mhz. This only applies to code in SRAM - running code from a cart or ROM will clock at 1.79mhz. The clock speed is selected by writing into a control register at $D100. Bob Will the boards that you may Dutch auction do 14 MHz or 7 (with a cartridge)? -Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guus.assmann Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 Hello Bob, The features that you present would be fine for me personally. And it would sure be nice if also Basic can be moved to the high speed area. That's been one of the things that I attempted to do. It worked but was not stable enough. (But I guess this was not due to the location, but rather the used parts) In Germany at ABBUC I learned that having the 6502C (Sally) is also a big wish. And I know it takes up space. Sally can sit on top of the socket that's goes into the board, so is needs little space. I sure would like to have the stuff. And I can spend time testing it in many systems. I have all but the 400/800. BR/ Guus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+bob1200xl Posted August 19, 2013 Author Share Posted August 19, 2013 I would strongly recommend that anybody hanging a lot of hardware on an 8-bit have spare systems. I am trying to make the XL14 sufficient for most needs, but there are going to be exceptions. Running the clocks at 14mhz only gives you 35ns to decode and latch everything for the next cycle. You cannot do that in the Atari MMU so it has to be done in the CPLD. If the VBXE has a problem with 14mhz, that's why we have the 7 and 1.79mhz option. It should be doable. Bob touching MMU renders it useless with U1MB, and the other one is quite popular i'm affride (assuming 500+ sold) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Jefferson Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 I think Candle means that VBXE also is emulating/taking control of the MMU? It does all sorts of memory control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candle Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 i never reffered to vbxe vbxe usses casinh (as input) and extsel (as output) to map its memory into base 64k ultimate has its own mmu, thus if someone else wants to replace it, he'll end up in rewriting all of the logic of u1mb inside his cpld - not that efficient the only sane way is to make base 64k block running on slow clock, ie whenever cpu access it, adding watestates so fast and slow bus would synchronise and then exchange requested data writes can be pipelined, reads not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+bob1200xl Posted August 20, 2013 Author Share Posted August 20, 2013 CASINH is Ok since it is on the MMU, but EXTSEL is not so it will take wiring. I have the same problem with hardware PBI devices. Since VBXE has wiring already, I guess one more won't hurt. Bob i never reffered to vbxe vbxe usses casinh (as input) and extsel (as output) to map its memory into base 64k ultimate has its own mmu, thus if someone else wants to replace it, he'll end up in rewriting all of the logic of u1mb inside his cpld - not that efficient the only sane way is to make base 64k block running on slow clock, ie whenever cpu access it, adding watestates so fast and slow bus would synchronise and then exchange requested data writes can be pipelined, reads not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candle Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 Bob, I got a feeling we speak of diffrent things Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+bob1200xl Posted August 20, 2013 Author Share Posted August 20, 2013 That's certainly possible. I have to learn more about VBXE. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+bob1200xl Posted August 23, 2013 Author Share Posted August 23, 2013 Running XRAM021 at 14mhz. XRAM14.WMV 10 minutes ago, this XL14 was in my 1200XL. No soldering. No wires. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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