Just got an Atari 8-bit

[55five66six]

Hi Everyone,

 

It's been awhile since I've been on the boards!

 

After a bit of thought, I bought an Atari 800 computer system. I also bought an Incognito board from Ebay, which I'll be getting connected to the 800 system as soon as it arrives.

 

Here's what I want to do with it:

 

I'd like to learn and somewhat master assembler for the 6502. I'd also like to learn about video graphics from a low level, I/O, etc. This is all for the goal of building an 8-bit computer based on the 6502 processor from scratch. It's a long term goal.. So, I'm not in a hurry by any means. This is just for learning and for fun.

 

Here are the questions I have so far.. Maybe some of you can help a guy out.

 

1.) I'd really like to use RCA cables for the video vs the Coaxial cables. Just a preference. I've always found the RCA cables to be clearer in picture and I don't care to buy a monitor from the 80's. Also, even though I like the "old school" look of the 800.. I hate the Coaxial connector coming out the back. Is there a way to hack the original 800 to use RCA cables instead? Maybe a way to modify the case to have connectors?

 

2.) Is there any way to connect the Atari 800 to a PC so that I can transfer files from one to another? I guess I could use the CF card for the Incognito, but the problem with that is that I don't want to always pull off the top of the 800's case whenever I want to add files to the CF card. Is there another way, maybe Ethernet or some serial cable, that I can connect to it with?

 

3.) What's a recommended assembler? I've seen the MAC/65 assembler and a few others floating around in cartridge format. I'd like an assembler, but at the same time, I don't want to use a disk unless I need to. I've heard people using the 6502 compilers for their operating system of choice (I'm using Fedora Linux 19). I don't know whether people tend to use their PC for the programming or if they still compile straight on their Atari.

 

4.) The Incognito unit I just bought was from a user on Ebay that had issues with getting it connected to their 800. It comes with no parts and no instructions. Are there instructions on how to install this? Also, if parts are fried on the board, is there anyone I can talk to about getting it repaired (It's the Atariage version)? I'm pretty handy with a soldering iron, so getting it installed once provided with instructions shouldn't be the problem. The problem would be if the person that I'm buying it from "let the smoke out".

 

That's all for now! Looking forward to your responses!

 

Thanks!

[RodLightning]

Hi,

 

The latest thread for incognito board orders is here: http://atariage.com/...ard-preorder-2/

 

Candle is at the end of a second production run of his incognito boards with a few left as of this posting. Hopefully, you won't need a replacement for the one you have but reading the entire thread will be informative in any case.

 

Here's Stephen's thread on installation: http://atariage.com/...n-installation/

 

Lastly, check out the official website for incognito and other custom upgrades: http://spiflash.org/ Instructions are also there.

 

if your 800 has the Rev. D CPU Card, you will want to reference this thread: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/210875-incognito-board-install-questions/page__hl__+incognito%20+board%20+install%20+questions#entry2787520

 

As for the 800 and RCA cables, it has a DIN connector on the side with composite audio & video. Building a cable is fairly easy or you can search for one pre-made. Pinouts are likely available here if you search a bit.

 

Update: Link to monitor cable pinouts is http://www.hardwarebook.info/Atari_8-bit_Composite_Video

 

I think the 800XL and original 800 use the same cable if memory serves...

Edited August 22, 2013 by RodLightning

[AtariGeezer]

Maybe you can convince Toad to include the cables too? He's the guy that was selling it...

If there's a problem with the incognito, sending it back to Candle for repair might be the best option?

[Roydea6]

 

This is what the side of my TV looks like LCD TV (2006) and my Atari800 with Incognito plugs into the S-video or composite and sound rca plugs Using a 5 DIN plug to S-video or Composite.

Edited August 22, 2013 by rdea6

[toad]

Unfortunately it's not a matter of convincing... I put the cables in the wrong bin, and we were in the middle of house cleaning - and they got thrown away. Luckily I realized this before the auction and listed the card as not including any cables.

 

But I sure wish SoilentGreen the best of luck with the card! and I'll be very happy to hear if you get it working. It's shipped, btw...heh, since I've got you here.

 

I'm afraid I don't have any natural talent for hardware. I wish I did. I'd love to hear about your 8-bit computer project. Btw, whether using coaxial or composite - neither implies using a 1980's tv set. My flat panel tv works on both composite and coaxial inputs - it can handle both. It's a somewhat new tv.

 

But nevertheless, composite looks much better than rf, no doubt.

 

edit: oh p.s. I just saw you asked about if it 'smoked' - no, no, it didn't smoke.

 

I'll tell you - that I did not plug it in backwards, and I was very careful and meticulous. However, given the fact that it also didn't work - I'll never really know what happened.

As far as I could eyeball things, I had connected all the wires in the right place, and did not short anything. I spent several hours on it - just going as slow as you can imagine. When it didn't power on at all - I asked on these forums about that - turns out I had the cartridge door open, and there is a switch to prevent the machine from powering on with the door open. Then, after I got past that hurdle - I turned it on - and I got a green screen - no display, just green. At that point I gave up.

Edited August 22, 2013 by toad

[55five66six]

@Rod:

 

It looks like I have the REV D board, so the instructions you provided should work for me. Thank you very very much for that.

 

I think I'll end up buying a cable vs creating one... Do you know where I'd buy one?

 

@Toad: "But I sure wish SoilentGreen the best of luck with the card! and I'll be very happy to hear if you get it working. It's shipped, btw...heh, since I've got you here."

Awesomeness! Can't wait to start working with it! Looked very impressive when I saw videos of it. If it wasn't for this board, I probably would have gone for an XL or an XE.

 

"Btw, whether using coaxial or composite - neither implies using a 1980's tv set."

 

Hence why I said Monitor and not TV. I have an Atari 520STM with one of the older monitors. Don't really like it, kinda small, bulky, sometimes hard on the eyes, even though I get good resolution out of it. RCA composite is much much clearer.

[55five66six]

"edit: oh p.s. I just saw you asked about if it 'smoked' - no, no, it didn't smoke.

 

I'll tell you - that I did not plug it in backwards, and I was very careful and meticulous. However, given the fact that it also didn't work - I'll never really know what happened.

As far as I could eyeball things, I had connected all the wires in the right place, and did not short anything. I spent several hours on it - just going as slow as you can imagine. When it didn't power on at all - I asked on these forums about that - turns out I had the cartridge door open, and there is a switch to prevent the machine from powering on with the door open. Then, after I got past that hurdle - I turned it on - and I got a green screen - no display, just green. At that point I gave up. "

 

lol.. the door was one thing I got hung up on when I brought the A800 home a few days back. Having never used one of these, I originally thought it was broken! Then I closed the door and things worked. Looking at the pictures I assumed the "smoke" wasn't let out of it. Things looked OK on the board and I didn't see any scoring, so I thought if worst case scenario, I'd be able to go to AtariAge and see who made the board to get it repaired.

[RodLightning]

 

I think I'll end up buying a cable vs creating one... Do you know where I'd buy one?

 

A quick ebay search for "atari 800 composite video cable'" returns one for $15 + $6 shipping from myatari.

 

The cable is 4 wires total...3 if you use a common ground and split off the rca phono plugs at the monitor end. It's very easy and cheap to build one for just a few dollars in parts.

[BillC]

@Rod:

 

It looks like I have the REV D board, so the instructions you provided should work for me. Thank you very very much for that.

 

I think I'll end up buying a cable vs creating one... Do you know where I'd buy one?

 

@Toad: "But I sure wish SoilentGreen the best of luck with the card! and I'll be very happy to hear if you get it working. It's shipped, btw...heh, since I've got you here."

Awesomeness! Can't wait to start working with it! Looked very impressive when I saw videos of it. If it wasn't for this board, I probably would have gone for an XL or an XE.

 

"Btw, whether using coaxial or composite - neither implies using a 1980's tv set."

 

Hence why I said Monitor and not TV. I have an Atari 520STM with one of the older monitors. Don't really like it, kinda small, bulky, sometimes hard on the eyes, even though I get good resolution out of it. RCA composite is much much clearer.

The standard 800 video output won't work with an ST monitor, they were 15MHz. RGB while the 800 only has composite/s-video/RF output.

 

It is possible to convert the video from the 800 to work with a PC monitor using external TV tuner boxes, they normally have RF/composite/s-video inputs and a VGA or HDMI output.

[BillC]

A quick ebay search for "atari 800 composite video cable'" returns one for $15 + $6 shipping from myatari.

 

The cable is 4 wires total...3 if you use a common ground and split off the rca phono plugs at the monitor end. It's very easy and cheap to build one for just a few dollars in parts.

The 8-bit classics cable is simpler since no modification/adapter is required. It's only $11.99 + shipping.

http://www.8bitclassics.com/Atari-800-XL-XE-5-Pin-DIN-S-Video-Cable.html

[RodLightning]

The 8-bit classics cable is simpler since no modification/adapter is required. It's only $11.99 + shipping.

http://www.8bitclass...ideo-Cable.html

 

I like that this cable has s-video for XL/XE and left right audio connections. I don't think a stock 800 will supply the chroma/luma signals without being modified, but regular composite would work and the mono sound will go to both speakers if you have a stereo tv or monitor. I could use it with either my 800 or 800XL.

 

I see a composite only version for $9.99 that would work on the 800. http://www.8bitclassics.com/av-cables

[Magic Knight]

Stock 800 does give out excellent S-Video signals by default from the monitor port - the only model that has this perfected. shame about the various elements lacking from the later machines.

[55five66six]

I like that this cable has s-video for XL/XE and left right audio connections. I don't think a stock 800 will supply the chroma/luma signals without being modified, but regular composite would work and the mono sound will go to both speakers if you have a stereo tv or monitor. I could use it with either my 800 or 800XL.

 

I see a composite only version for $9.99 that would work on the 800. http://www.8bitclassics.com/av-cables

 

I ended up buying the SVideo cable as listed above. Thanks everyone for your help! If I was better at making professional looking cabling, I would have built it myself. Unfortunately, I'm not good at that.

 

Now, as far as an assembler goes, what do people use nowadays? Also, is there a good way for me to transfer files to and from a PC? (IE: I'd like to be able to create sprites on the PC, but load them up on the Atari in whatever program I create.)

[55five66six]

Stock 800 does give out excellent S-Video signals by default from the monitor port - the only model that has this perfected. shame about the various elements lacking from the later machines.

 

That isn't the first time I heard this. I hear that everything is much clearer on the original 800 computer vs the subsequent models that came later in the 80's.

[RodLightning]

Stock 800 does give out excellent S-Video signals by default from the monitor port - the only model that has this perfected. shame about the various elements lacking from the later machines.

 

Thanks for the correction..I got the 800 and 800XL confused in my head!

 

That isn't the first time I heard this. I hear that everything is much clearer on the original 800 computer vs the subsequent models that came later in the 80's.

 

The 800 is widely appreciated for being built like a tank when compared to the XL and especially XE 8 bits. I need to build a custom chroma/luma cable for my Commodore 1702 before my own Incognito board is delivered and I get busy installing it. I will also be needing a CF card for the project. The LED button mod looks nice, but I haven't decided on doing that at the time of installation, later down the line, or never.

 

As for assemblers, MAC/65 was the definitive tool that I remember. Hopefully someone else can suggest a superior alternative if one exists.

[55five66six]

Thanks for the correction..I got the 800 and 800XL confused in my head!

 

 

 

The 800 is widely appreciated for being built like a tank when compared to the XL and especially XE 8 bits. I need to build a custom chroma/luma cable for my Commodore 1702 before my own Incognito board is delivered and I get busy installing it. I will also be needing a CF card for the project. The LED button mod looks nice, but I haven't decided on doing that at the time of installation, later down the line, or never.

 

As for assemblers, MAC/65 was the definitive tool that I remember. Hopefully someone else can suggest a superior alternative if one exists.

 

I was very surprised at how toughly it was built... and how heavy it was! The last 8-bit computer I had was the Commodore 64c. Although I thought it was an improvement from the breadbox design, the Atari 800 makes the C64 models seem cheap in build.

 

In normal fashion of every game console/computer I get, I took it apart to not only explore it, but to also see what I was dealing with. The enclosure for the ram cards and the CPU card was super solid. Very impressive how well it was built. I didn't expect the CPU to be located there.

 

You don't mind if I ask you some questions while installing my Incognito, do you? I may need some help and it would be nice to talk to another and compare notes.

[RodLightning]

You don't mind if I ask you some questions while installing my Incognito, do you? I may need some help and it would be nice to talk to another and compare notes.

 

No, ask away, although it might be a couple of weeks or longer until I have my board in hand. It still has to ship from Poland to USA. My 800 has an older revision CPU board but is otherwise the same.

 

There are at least two dozen other boards going out on the second run so we are in good company. I hope to hear more installation stories over the next few months. There is already quite a bit of information on atariage from those who got in on the first offering.

 

Have you managed to get your 800 working back in stock condition with original memory boards in place?

[55five66six]

I haven't put it back together yet. It's still in pieces until I get the board from Toad.. I figured since I already have it apart, what's the point in putting it back together again only to disassemble it?

 

In the meantime, I'm taking the opportunity to soak the casing in 20% peroxide solution so that the yellowness goes away. (Using the guide in the root of the Atari 8-bit area).

[russg]

Hi Everyone,

 

It's been awhile since I've been on the boards!

 

After a bit of thought, I bought an Atari 800 computer system. I also bought an Incognito board from Ebay, which I'll be getting connected to the 800 system as soon as it arrives.

 

Here's what I want to do with it:

 

I'd like to learn and somewhat master assembler for the 6502. I'd also like to learn about video graphics from a low level, I/O, etc. This is all for the goal of building an 8-bit computer based on the 6502 processor from scratch. It's a long term goal.. So, I'm not in a hurry by any means. This is just for learning and for fun.

 

Here are the questions I have so far.. Maybe some of you can help a guy out.

 

1.) I'd really like to use RCA cables for the video vs the Coaxial cables. Just a preference. I've always found the RCA cables to be clearer in picture and I don't care to buy a monitor from the 80's. Also, even though I like the "old school" look of the 800.. I hate the Coaxial connector coming out the back. Is there a way to hack the original 800 to use RCA cables instead? Maybe a way to modify the case to have connectors?

 

2.) Is there any way to connect the Atari 800 to a PC so that I can transfer files from one to another? I guess I could use the CF card for the Incognito, but the problem with that is that I don't want to always pull off the top of the 800's case whenever I want to add files to the CF card. Is there another way, maybe Ethernet or some serial cable, that I can connect to it with?

 

3.) What's a recommended assembler? I've seen the MAC/65 assembler and a few others floating around in cartridge format. I'd like an assembler, but at the same time, I don't want to use a disk unless I need to. I've heard people using the 6502 compilers for their operating system of choice (I'm using Fedora Linux 19). I don't know whether people tend to use their PC for the programming or if they still compile straight on their Atari.

 

4.) The Incognito unit I just bought was from a user on Ebay that had issues with getting it connected to their 800. It comes with no parts and no instructions. Are there instructions on how to install this? Also, if parts are fried on the board, is there anyone I can talk to about getting it repaired (It's the Atariage version)? I'm pretty handy with a soldering iron, so getting it installed once provided with instructions shouldn't be the problem. The problem would be if the person that I'm buying it from "let the smoke out".

 

That's all for now! Looking forward to your responses!

 

Thanks!

You can remove that RF cable. It just plugs into the power board. The 800 has a monitor port for your composite cable. Something you should definitely get is an APE interface, to communicate your PC to

800. APE comes in rs232 serial or USB versions. You say you use linux. I don't know any support for linux by APE. You'd need APE software, or ASPEQT works and is free. You should start with

Atari BASIC programming, just to get used to programming. With the APE cable, you can run a binary load BASIC B or C. You can also run a binary load Assembler Editor, a beginners assembler from Atari.

You can disable that cart door switch. Just put a wire across where the switch works. I think there's a Mac65 image you can burn to a maxflash cart, or maybe there's a simple binary load mac65.

Mac65 is a macro assembler, meaning for more advanced assembler programming you can use macros for often used routines. Assembler Editor doesn't have macros. Finally you need to learn

about the Atari. You need 'Mapping the Atari' for locations in the OS and other things. I suggest 'The Atari Assembler' by Inman and Inman. 'Your Atari Computer' by Poole and McNiff is commonly

used to get familiar with Atari BASIC. You can download Atari books from torrent, but reading from computer screen isn't as comfortable as having the book in your hands.

I'd like to know what the 'D' version in the 800 is. The ROM boards are either A or B, never heard of D. There are cross assemblers you can use instead of coding on the Atari, but again

Windows I think, not linux.

[BillC]

Thanks for the correction..I got the 800 and 800XL confused in my head!

 

 

 

The 800 is widely appreciated for being built like a tank when compared to the XL and especially XE 8 bits. I need to build a custom chroma/luma cable for my Commodore 1702 before my own Incognito board is delivered and I get busy installing it. I will also be needing a CF card for the project. The LED button mod looks nice, but I haven't decided on doing that at the time of installation, later down the line, or never.

 

As for assemblers, MAC/65 was the definitive tool that I remember. Hopefully someone else can suggest a superior alternative if one exists.

Since the 1702 uses 2 RCA jacks for s-video you don't need a custom cable, a DIN5 to 4 RCA plugs connects all the signals the Atari 8-bits supply. These are commonly available in many stereo or electronics stores, and is the cable from B&C/myatari mentioned in post #8.

myatari: CAA005 Cable Monitor Color 4-RCA 6' 14.95 5-pin din to RCA

[55five66six]

You can remove that RF cable. It just plugs into the power board. The 800 has a monitor port for your composite cable. Something you should definitely get is an APE interface, to communicate your PC to

800. APE comes in rs232 serial or USB versions. You say you use linux. I don't know any support for linux by APE. You'd need APE software, or ASPEQT works and is free.

 

Found a great website with many things I would need for connecting to a PC. Thanks a lot for having me search for the APE! Bookmarked it!

 

You should start with Atari BASIC programming, just to get used to programming. With the APE cable, you can run a binary load BASIC B or C. You can also run a binary load Assembler Editor, a beginners assembler from Atari.

 

Sounds great! That's where I'll start then!

 

You can disable that cart door switch. Just put a wire across where the switch works.

 

I may just do that. I tend to leave things like that open when testing carts. It's more an annoyance than anything, so maybe I'll devise a way to disable the switch permanently.

 

I think there's a Mac65 image you can burn to a maxflash cart, or maybe there's a simple binary load mac65.

Mac65 is a macro assembler, meaning for more advanced assembler programming you can use macros for often used routines. Assembler Editor doesn't have macros. Finally you need to learn about the Atari. You need 'Mapping the Atari' for locations in the OS and other things. I suggest 'The Atari Assembler' by Inman and Inman. 'Your Atari Computer' by Poole and McNiff is commonly used to get familiar with Atari BASIC.

 

I downloaded this book via torrent. To be honest, I hate doing things that way. I would much rather buy and have a real copy. Any suggestions on where I would buy them?

 

I'd like to know what the 'D' version in the 800 is. The ROM boards are either A or B, never heard of D. There are cross assemblers you can use instead of coding on the Atari, but again

Windows I think, not linux.

 

The D Version says "Rev. D" on the CPU board. No idea what the difference is.

[russg]

Found a great website with many things I would need for connecting to a PC. Thanks a lot for having me search for the APE! Bookmarked it!

 

 

 

Sounds great! That's where I'll start then!

 

 

 

I may just do that. I tend to leave things like that open when testing carts. It's more an annoyance than anything, so maybe I'll devise a way to disable the switch permanently.

 

I've done that to all my 800 power boards. It is obvious where the switch is on the power board. Just unsolder it and put a simple wire in the two holes, on top.

 

 

 

I downloaded this book via torrent. To be honest, I hate doing things that way. I would much rather buy and have a real copy. Any suggestions on where I would buy them?

 

 

 

The D Version says "Rev. D" on the CPU board. No idea what the difference is.

 

I found it. It is in small print on the non-chip side at the corner rev D. Thanks.

 

As for books here's a few ideas.

 

Ben Smith/Bravo Sierra has a good list of books, don't know if he really has them.

 

http://www.aracnet.c...ri/8btbooks.htm

 

Here's a quick google for atari books

 

http://www.goodreads...helf/show/atari I saw a 'Mapping the Atari' a real necessity if they really have it.

 

Then ask on Atari Age, maybe someone has one you want.

 

Then try ebay and ebid and craigslist.

 

Maybe some can offer other suggestions. Another famous one is De Re Atari.

 

I checked a couple other good vendors, might give them an e-mail, I didn't see any books on websites.

 

Other than Ben Smith there's:

 

Atari Video 61 (google it)

B&C (www.myatari.com)

Best Electronics (google atari best electronics, there's another best electronics)

 

There's an excellent FAQ on Atari 8bits, worth a read and the same author has an extensive vendor list, you might get some ideas from that.

 

http://www.faqs.org/...tari-8-bit/faq/

 

http://www.faqs.org/...i-8-bit/vendev/

 

Nice place just to see some bood book covers, or download I guess pdf of them:

 

http://www.atariarchives.org/

Edited August 24, 2013 by russg

[55five66six]

Awesome! Thank you very much! "Mapping the Atari" is definitely on my list. (I made sure to bookmark this thread.. So much useful info)

 

Thanks again everyone!