Question for Sloopy

[Faicuai]

 

 

I really believe that Zaxxon is a crack/heroin addict. (...) is exactly the type of behavior that could result in preorder/production projects being banned from this forum.

 

 

...Precisely the point: let us give room and opportunity to TRUE PROs, and root-out inefficiency and/or incompetence. There are great examples (right here): with little kids, with mortgages, with tons of bills to pay, limited income... yet busting their rears to get their stuff done, trying to please us.

 

For those who have shown QUALITY-craftmanship, attention to detail and responsibility, I have shown all the praise I could (as well as PLENTY of patience).

 

Now, as for those who take cash, "assuming" that (because this is a hobby) such cash is not part of a "real" transaction, and therefore, does not entail any major degree of accountability, well, you better watch out...

 

It is time to move on and simply accept the fact the NO-ONE here is entitled to play with ANYONE's cash, or patience... NO EXCUSES. It's a matter of principles.

[atari8warez]

@Metalguy

 

I agree with Faicuai, not everyone here run a business or do this for financial gain yet a lot of these same guys do everything they can to please their buyers. So this being a hobby is a lame excuse for years of delays and lack of responsibility. I am amazed to see Sloopy on the chat every night either here or on IRC, he could have spent some of this bla bla time in completing orders still pending since 2011 (that's 2 years for Christs sakes!!). It's an utter nonsense that people complaining here will cause these types of projects to be banned, a sane person would think it is the other way around. Life has all sorts of weird things for all of us but we still go on with it and we still feel responsible for the promises we made, they do not suddenly become irrelevant just because we live through some trying times. A person who pays for my services is my customer (whether I do this for hobby or otherwise) and he has every right to demand his money's worth, no one can blame him for doing so. Money exchanges hands the endeavor becomes a business period. A business does not always make profit but it is a business nonetheless, whether you have a website for it or not is not an issue. Who says AtariMax or Lotharek or myself actually make a living on Atari related things, if that was true they wouldn't also keep day jobs, would they? If you are OK with years of delays because you think this is a hobby which carries no responsibility or any other weight with it that's fine, but don't expect everybody else to think the same way and respect their way of thinking without resorting to name callings or bullying.

 

And I don't believe Zaxxon is a crack/heroin addict, he is just an IRRESPONSIBLE brat.

Edited August 27, 2013 by atari8warez

[Marius]

Thanks for the entertainment guys.

 

Big lock and sh*t up!

[toad]

 

This might be the most arrogant, self-important thing I have ever read. Who are you to decide whether or not someones tone is correct or not?

Edited August 27, 2013 by toad

[MEtalGuy66]

@Atari8warez: Well, I wouldnt expect you to make a living at what you sell, as any literate 8-year old can build that themselves. However, Atarimax does run his "business" as a primary means of income, and Lotharek undoubtedly has enough time to devote to what he does, which is far above and beyond what the average person has time to accomplish/maintain..

 

Bottom line is this.. It will be a cold day in hell before I will allow either of you guys (fack-why or atar8warez) to participate in any preoprder/project I undertake in the future.. And now that you've voiced your oppinions, others would be wise to remember this as well..

 

Like it or not.. You cant please "all of the people all of the time" regardless of what you do, and real life does take precedence over "atari people". And like it or not, Fack-why, without a legal contract of sale, there really isn't a damn bit of actual recourse anyone can take even if they did decide to spend the time/money to persue it. This is reality. So the only thing that can serve to make situations like this tolerable is if we all show some restraint and maturity, and limit our personal grievances to private means of communication. Anything you've got to contribute, by all means post publicly.. But gripes you have against an individual need to be kept private. If you feel it is your duty to warn the world about someone who has wronged you, then go start a blog. Or find a forum for pissed off consumers. Noone wants to hear it in here. This forum is not the place for it. Attempting to utilize it as such has very little potential for anything good and will certainly result in a "more harm than good" outcome.

[jakeLearns]

I don't appreciate the visceral response to my request to have Sloopy have a date set.

 

I've heard some people discuss legalities - let me state that I have not elevated anything - at any time - to the level of 'legal action'.

 

So don't you all elevate it to that - it's not necessary.

 

Secondly - asking for a date to set is appropriate when a year has past without action. If you don't agree - then we'll disagree.

My feeling is its appropriate.

 

Pixelmischief, even though your tone was rude - I will sell you the board. I will PM you with details.

[MEtalGuy66]

 

I've heard some people discuss legalities - let me state that I have not elevated anything - at any time - to the level of 'legal action'.

Yeah my part of that was addressed to fack-why, in regards to the way he acted when Zaxxon took over a year to produce/ship SIDE cartridges.

 

Pixelmischief, even though your tone was rude - I will sell you the board. I will PM you with details.

Good for you. And that brings up another very relevant point.. For anyone who is "tired of waiting" there is ALWAYSE ample people who have not "lost the faith" who are willing to buy you out. In fact, every time I do a preorder, I alwayse kick in enough extra of my own cash to at least make 10 extra PCBs. Because in any preorder you have to choose a time to close the ordering, and submit the money to get the boards made. UNFAILINGLY, there are alwayse at least 10 people who wander in weeks, months, even YEARS after the fact and ask "is it too late for me to get one of those???".. So, perhapse the most productive/proactive thing of all to do, when you get "tired of waiting" would be to make a few clicks over to the buy/sell/trade forum and post a thread stating your intention to "sell out".. Someone will usually gladly take your place..

[jakeLearns]

I bought Fast Rob's place in line, so the possibility of someone purchasing my place in line was something I considered.

However, at this moment in time, VBXE's are available from Lotharek.

 

Given that VBXE's are readily available from Lotharek, it's probably not going to be the first thing someone thinks, that nevertheless someone will want to buy a place waiting in line for Sloopy to deliver VBXE's that he sold in 2011 - and will deliver at a vague - and pointedly unspecified date in the future.

 

You may be right. Maybe that would have happened, but that didn't happen.

 

the offer I got was from a person that specifically does not want this thread to continue - so that it wouldn't continue.

 

So - as long as the payment goes through, this will be my last post in this thread.

 

bye all.

Edited August 27, 2013 by jakeLearns

[Faicuai]

(...) It will be a cold day in hell before I will allow either of you guys (fack-why or atar8warez) to participate in any preoprder/project I undertake in the future.. (...)

 

 

...Thanks for sparing me from such misery. Please, make it PERMANENT.

 

There are vendors here already more capable (and more professional) than anything you have written / shown, so far.

 

Bon voyage!

[MEtalGuy66]

Well, thankfully, everything I did was prior to the time when you chose to disgrace this forum with your presence, fack-why.. Otherwise I may have exhibited the major lapse in judgement of actually accepting money from your squirelly, eccentric, jayminer800 ass..

Edited August 27, 2013 by MEtalGuy66

[Magic Knight]

Just a suggestion....

 

[Faicuai]

Well, thankfully, everything I did was prior to the time when you chose to disgrace this forum with your presence, fack-why.. Otherwise I may have exhibited the major lapse in judgement of actually accepting money from your squirelly, eccentric, jayminer800 ass..

 

Don't be so hard on yourself. It's not a matter of "major judgement lapse" but, instead, your compromised level of maturity and mediocrity-condoning (not self-supporting) arguments.

 

It seems that, at this point, all that was needed to say / explain on this topic (intelligently or not) has been said, already. We need to move on. It is time, now.

[MEtalGuy66]

Don't be so hard on yourself. It's not a matter of "major judgement lapse" but, instead, your compromised level of maturity and mediocrity-condoning (not self-supporting) arguments.

Well, unfortunately, where people like you are concerned, Fack-why, all too often one man's "mediocrity" is the rest of the world's reality.

 

A good measure of true intelligence is the ability to accomplish, while working within the confines of what is actually possible, given the true nature of things (people and life, for instance.).

Edited August 27, 2013 by MEtalGuy66

[atari8warez]

Bottom line is this.. It will be a cold day in hell before I will allow either of you guys (fack-why or atar8warez) to participate in any preoprder/project I undertake in the future.. And now that you've voiced your oppinions, others would be wise to remember this as well..

 

 

Now that really makes me regret all that i have said on this thread, this is the ultimate punishment for me by Metalguy... Wait a minute though what was the last project you have undertaken, was that an MIO clone, how long did it take you to deliver? years?? Hmmm, on a second thought maybe i really deserved a tougher punishment then that. My projects on the other hand are indeed kid's play, you've been more than generous when you evaluated its difficulty level, one slight difference is that my customers don't have to get elderly before they receive their goods... Get a life Ken....

[MEtalGuy66]

The huge difference there that I guess is beyond your comprehension is that 95% of the time involved in the MIO reproduction was development time. Not production/assembly time. I sunk much more of my own money into that project than all of my "customers" combined. The dram control had to be completley redesigned to use more commonly available devices, and by the time it was done, several other improvements were made to the design, while retaining compatability with the original device. The very nature of the MIO is very timing dependant and temperamental. I went with the highest quality PCBs available, and paid for several board revisions. I didnt ship a single unit until I could do it with the assurance that they could be built to function better than the original. And the build quality is beyond comparisson to the original. So, there's a huge difference between that project and the average project being done on here these days. Technology is alot better and cheaper nowadayze than it was when the MIO was designed.. Modern development resources are getting better and more available every day. I kept my "customers" well informed of the current state of the project at all times. And, aside from one person (who I do not fault for his impatience, as I later learned of the personal nature of his concerns) I never had a single complaint. I went way beyond what anyone would consider reasonable on that project, and I did see it through to completion. Noone involved ever accused me of poor communication or lack of effort.

 

So.. You can get a life.. And know what you are talking about before you open your mouth..

[Tickled_Pink]

And talking of MIO ... or rather the MIO II.

 

It's why I won't ever pre-order anything from the community. Too much of a risk. I'm still waiting for the one I pre-ordered 20 years ago!

 

That's why people are getting a little narky in situations like this. I understand that life often gets in the way. I've had projects put on indefinite hold because of it. I will get back to them one day but need to be earning a reasonable living first. But it doesn't hurt to keep people updated once in a while. There are too many scammers out there and once someone seems to be ignoring emails it sets the alarm bells ringing.

[MEtalGuy66]

Dude.. Mike Hohman really WAS a coke addict.. I have heard first-hand accounts of this.

 

And he WAS running a business (or failing miserably at it). There are ALOT of people who share your predicament (and much worse) where FtE is concerned.. It's absolutley no indication of (or correlation to) what has been done here on this forum.

[candle]

I haven't spoke with Chris lately, but seeing him on yahoo messanger, and occasionally posting here makes me think that level of b-sh going in his live has dropped to managable level

I took some time to re-read my original vbxe2 thread plus preorder threads, here are my conclusions:

it took me 4 months from preorder close to shipping out first units to get vbxe2 delivered, shipping continued for a month, but it seems they were all shipped out till november (1 month later)

some facts: it took 30hrs of labour to assembly 15 units, and this was my first that complicated project to get assembled, i suppose it took another 4 hours to test these 15 units, learning how to solder these quickly and reliably on the fly

I've started collecting money when preorder closed, so i knew the number of units i suppose to procude, plus i waited till everyone send me their money before ordering anything - this was to prevent situations that someone who declared that would buy the board would drop off, and leave me with a bill i cannot pay - i wasn unemployed when all this started, and vbxe2 was the thing that helped me to get my first job as a pcb designed

now sloop:

it seems that he collected the money when preorder was still open, and started spending the money just after bare minimum was met

also, as i know, he decided to have loose boards instead of panels like i had, because he felt this will be better for him - from my experience - this is the opposite, because it is more time consuming that way, a lot more

what is also lacking is communication, but considering the amount of b-sh or so called real life isssues i can't blame the guy

 

but, time has passed and assuming he needs 60hrs to assemble 15 boards it should be done long time ago

i do belive that he will deliver, but can't really understand the delays - it's not that complicated to assembly, heck, i did receive mine from sloopy ages ago, and this was the period all kinds of b-sh was going on in his life

 

as for zaxon, he was going through all sort of personal issues at that time, and i think it ended up with him getting divorced, but the problem with zaxon was a) lack of communication (both skills, and even speaking english - regardless he lives in UK), and b) constantly making empty promises he couldn't possibly fulfill, sometimes just to gain some time and have two days "off" - this is bad, really - worst truth is much better than that kind of silly lies that will bite one in one's butt before one counts to three

 

fortunatly, lotharek delivers, but he doesn't do hand assembly - automated assembly lines does that, and he doesn't need to worry of all these issues that i or sloop have doing hand assembly

this is good for end customer, even if the final price is a little higher than mine or sloops, but hey - you get your order delivered, on time, with a warranty, and if you want to - some kind of invoice so you could get your taxes back

 

there are always some schelude delays, for me, some last for few months past the estimated delivery date, but shouldn't be more than this, and communication and some status updates are crucial to get things smooth between manufacturer and end customer

 

good example of another preoder project is 7800XM module - one can't really blame Curt for having heart surgery, can one?

 

Chris, get this sorted out, really

there is a lot of games over FB with "saga" in title, don't want to have VBXE2 saga here

[MEtalGuy66]

Yeah I'll never do large scale assembly again.. Its not worth it.. The asians will do it for you for a really cheap price, and they are well equipped to do a really nice job of it. Better to just figure it into the cost to begin with. Then all you have to do is flash/program the devices, test them, and ship them.

[atari8warez]

 

but, time has passed and assuming he needs 60hrs to assemble 15 boards it should be done long time ago

i do belive that he will deliver, but can't really understand the delays - it's not that complicated to assembly, heck, i did receive mine from sloopy ages ago, a

 

I am pretty certain the problem with Sloop is lack of serious concentration and dedication to this project, I also believe the complexity of assembling and successful testing of a final working product was a major hurdle for him, that, and the unfortunate events that unfolded in his life made him loose his interest and whatever dedication he had for the project.

 

His latest message on this thread kind of proves my suspicions, he is talking about other things like boxing IDE Plus 2 etc... (reminds me of somebody else!) If he was indeed mentally dedicated finishing the VBXE work, he wouldn't have even considered thinking about other stuff when people here are waiting for their devices since 2011.

 

MG says that he is working on them, if so, given the current situation what is it that is holding him from giving daily or weekly updates here to put the minds of all those people to ease instead of letting this get out of hand and give the impression that this will be a "dejavu".

 

It is time to come out clean either by restoring the trust (with firm schedules, frequent updates and meeting the targets, not more excuses!) or refunding people's money, otherwise this will be another "Z" fiasco. I am sure there are some people here who are willing to wait for an indefinite period of time, but there are obviously others who are not really amused by the current situation.

Edited August 29, 2013 by atari8warez

[MEtalGuy66]

I agree that it is tough to understand how someone can have the time to post in unrelated threads, but not have time to post a general update about his own project.

 

However.. This may easily be a personal difference between SLoopy and most other people.. Everyone has something that they find difficult that everyone else can not understand why.

 

One thing is for sure.. It wasnt the assembly/testing "hurdles" as you say that made him "loose interest" in the project.. Making sloopy "loose interest" in anything electronics related is like making a teenage boy loose interest in female anatomy..

 

But, when you are living out of a duffle bag, and most of your gear is in storage 100 miles away, your ex is still making your life hell on a daily basis by proxy of your kids and the people you have to deal with because of shit she is STILL PULLING.. and theres nothing you can do to change any of this until the current events of your life run their course... Its easy to see how discussing additional problems that you can do nothing about could add to your level of depression/anxiety... This may not "qualify as an excuse" in your book.. But Ive been in similar long-term shitty situations in my life, and Im telling you.. You need to cut the guy some slack.. Your damn lucky he didn't just say "screw it" and disappear for an extended period of time.. Alot of people would/do....

[atari8warez]

Believe me I do understand his situation because I recently had a marriage which lasted only 2 months (yes 2 months not 2 years) yet the b*tch tried to claim my house (which I have paid for to the last penny), tried to get my rental income from a rental unit in the house by filing false documents with my fake signature on it authorizing her to collect the money, and harassed my tenant when she refused to hand the money over to her, caused a flood on my basement due to her carelessness, all this while I can not get back to my house for 4 months because she filed a false claim that I have assaulted her, I was arrested and handcuffed and spent a night in detention. As I was leaving the courtroom after I was bailed out, I was served with another court document indicating that she filed a motion for spousal support for over 4K a month.This b*tch cost me over $25K in damages and lawyer fees, I was able to finally evict her from my own house and reclaim it back, say "go to hell" about her support claim, and even got her to pay part of my legal fees (although not before I registered a lien against her own home, yes she had a property yet she refused to leave mine) The crown dropped the assault charges as there was not a single evidence that her claims were true, and I finally had my life back. After the dust settled (took 1 full year) I found out that she was a member of a religious sect and their imam is a nutcase who claims he talks to God and claims to be the Mehdi on one hand (can bee seen on youtube videos) and sexually assaults young girls on the other (The f*ucker says "God" made him do it, the psycho resides in Virgina and was arrested in Chesapeake I believe in 2011).

 

Anyway, I can definitely say I know how a hellish marriage is like. In those kind of situations what one should do if they really are unable to take care of their responsibilities, is to come out and say "Sorry guys I won't be able to deal with this at this time until I get my shit back together and If you have a problem with that, here's your money back, otherwise please wait until further notice". That would have taken care of the situation without anybody "whining or complaining". If Sloop can handle a b*tch and survive, he sure can handle a few customers waiting for him to ship their goods.

Edited August 29, 2013 by atari8warez

[MEtalGuy66]

 

Believe me I do understand his situation because I recently had a marriage which lasted only 2 months (yes 2 months not 2 years) yet the b*tch tried to claim my house (which I have paid for to the last penny), tried to get my rental income from a rental unit in the house by filing false documents with my fake signature on it authorizing her to collect the money, and harassed my tenant when she refused to hand the money over her, caused a flood on my basement due to her carelessness, all this while I can not get back to my house for 4 months because she filed a false claim that I have assaulted her, I was arrested and handcuffed and spent a night in detention. As I was leaving the courtroom after I was bailed out, I was served with another court document indicating that she filed a motion for spousal support for over 4K a month.This b*tch cost me over $25K in damages and lawyer fees, I was able to finally evict her from my own house and reclaim it back, say "go to hell" about her support claim, and even got her to pay part of my legal fees (although not before I registered a lien against her own home, yes she had a property yet she refused to leave mine) The crown dropped the assault charges as there was not a single evidence that her claims were true, and I finally had my life back. After the dust settled (took 1 full year) I found out that she was a member of a religious sect and their imam is a nutcase who claims he talks to God and claims to be the Mehdi on one hand (can bee seen on youtube videos) and sexually assaults young girls on the other (The f*ucker says "God" made him do it, the psycho resides in Virgina and was arrested in Chesapeake I believe in 2011).

 

Anyway, I can definitely say I know how a hellish marriage is like. In those kind of situations what one should do if they really are unable to take care of their responsibilities, is to come out and say "Sorry guys I won't be able to deal with this at this time until I get my shit back together and If you have a problem with that, here's your money back, otherwise please wait until further notice". That would have taken care of the situation without anybody "whining or complaining". If Sloop can handle a b*tch and survive, he sure can handle a few customers waiting for him to ship their goods.

Heh. Wow.. You have my sympathy on that one, and I dont disagree with any of that. Only thing I'll add is that if he was in a situation where he could NOT refund the customers' money (which is highly probable), then that should be explained as well.

[erazmus]

Wow, I think the moral of this thread is "If you're in to Atari 8-bits, don't get married"

[pixelmischief]

@atari8warez: How excruciatingly delicious was the moment that you were able to evict that evil [APPROPRIATE_SLANG_FOR_FEMALE_GENITALIA] from your house? I would have had to call that Viagra hotline to "seek medical attention for an erection that lasts longer than four hours".