ADAM Pi?

[LoTonah]

There is a lot of talk about making a new ColecoVision on these forums. But what about the Adam?

 

Here is what I would like to see...somehow.

 

- ADAMem (or a new emulator) ported over to the Raspberry Pi. If it is a new emulator, we can add additional modes to the emulator that gives it new capabilities, sort of like an ADAM 2.0.

- A modified ADAM keyboard that is also a Raspberry Pi case. I haven't taken my keyboard apart, but something tells me that there is enough room to handle it (with extension cables so all Pi ports come out either the back or the side). I love the ADAM keyboard, and that is my main problem with using the emulators on Windows/Mac--the layout is too different and sometimes even incompatible.

- A USB to ADAMnet adapter so we can run tape drives, etc.

 

Personally I think that'd be awesome, especially the keyboard/case idea.

 

Thoughts?

[Pixelboy]

I would prefer a miniaturized Expansion Module #3, to be plugged into the ColecoVision console's expansion port.

[+Gemintronic]

I'd say a Linux distro for the Pi that boots to an ADAM emulator would do. It's the closest thing to a new ADAM we'll ever see.

[NIAD]

I would prefer a miniaturized Expansion Module #3, to be plugged into the ColecoVision console's expansion port.

That is exactly what I mentioned to Opcode a year or so ago. Basically take the SGM and enlarge it length wise so as to facilitate the necessary additions to the SGM PCB for the 6801s, ADAMnet, SmartWRITER rom, EOS rom, etc., etc. You could elimininate the Expansion Slots and Data Drives/controller chips altogether and replace it with an ADAMnet SD Card that could use emulator Disk and DDP images. I also wouldn't bother with an Expansion Bus for hooking up items like the Atari 2600 Adapter, 80 Column Units, MIDI-Mite, etc., but two RJ12 phone ports would be required for the attachment of the ADAM Keyboard and Disk Drive(s). It would also be wise to add at least an additional 64K Expansion RAM (probably 256K would be best) so that the unit would be compatible with all ADAM software that requires Expansion RAM.

 

In today's retro-world, games seem to be what it's all about, so Parallel, Serial and IDE Interfaces wouldn't seem worthwhile to add, but then again, with the advantages of modern technology, adding all the extra bells and whistles might not be out of the realm of possibilities.

 

The unit could probably be contained in a case about the size of the originally planned Coleco Super Game Module. For asthetics, the ADAM Keyboard and Controller Attachment could be dyed black to match the color scheme and a black Hand Controller would be used.

[retroillucid]

 

 

The unit could probably be contained in a case about the size of the originally planned Coleco Super Game Module. For asthetics, the ADAM Keyboard and Controller Attachment could be dyed black to match the color scheme and a black Hand Controller would be used.

Oh man! How sweet this would be!!

[LoTonah]

I've only dabbled in simple emulation programming, and I'm not great in C++, either (probably what it would need to be programmed in to work on the Rasp Pi).

 

The ColecoVision doesn't seem hard to emulate (Z80, sound and graphics chipset, reading the ROMs, working with joysticks, etc). But the ADAM seems like a bit of a nightmare to emulate (3 CPUs, working in tandem, all of the different data formats, etc.). Wouldn't even know where to begin.

 

Anyone happen to have docs on how ADAMem was made? Also, I know ADAMem was ported to X11, but is it portable enough to be recompiled on ARM processors?

[Vectorman]

Not worth the effort. The ADAM just doesn't have a software library large enough to warrant the effort. Just wait till one shows up on Craig's List or Goodwill/SA and grab it.

[LoTonah]

Not worth the effort for what? The hardware project, or the emulator?

[NIAD]

Not worth the effort. The ADAM just doesn't have a software library large enough to warrant the effort. Just wait till one shows up on Craig's List or Goodwill/SA and grab it.

Everything is worth the effort... it just depends who you talk to or ask. As far as an emulator, there would be thousands of people who would be interested in finally having a true Windows based program that supports the ADAM and all it's hardware options completely. ADAMem and Virtual ADAM are very nice options for ADAM emulation, but there are numerous things that need to be improved upon as well as added. M.E.S.S. emulation of the ADAM is a nice fall back, but far too many issues with it and I think ADAM emulation is still broken for about the last 2-3 years, so you have to use an older version of M.E.S.S.

 

Now if you are talking about a hardware add-on device to the ColecoVision, then you will be dealing with seriously smaller numbers. For instance, the Opode S.G.M. has sold about 200 units to date with a decent amount of people still waiting to order or receive theirs. So a fair estimate for a redesigned ADAM add-on for the ColecoVision like I mentioned above would probably be in the range of about 75 if it included an ADAMnet SD Drive that could use Disk and DDP image files... maybe a little more because this would really be a unique item.

 

You are correct in saying that the ADAM software library is on the smallish side, especially Coleco made software, but there were plenty of 3rd Party/Homebrew titles developed after the Coleco years that are very well done that could help drive interest. It all depends on if an ADAMnet SD Drive could be included that can use image files directly.... that would be the big one.

 

If said unit was reasonably priced, I think it would be hard for most ColecoVision fans to pass up on such a unit especially seeing how they will have access to the ADAM software library free of charge, just copy the image files onto the SD Card.

[Vectorman]

Not worth the effort for what? The hardware project, or the emulator?

 

I was thinking new ADAM hardware. I don't know why ADAMs are so hard to get and desirable now. Back in 2008-2009 I couldn't give them away for even $5, even here at AA. I ended up gutting and throwing 6 or 7 in the dumpster.

[NIAD]

 

I was thinking new ADAM hardware. I don't know why ADAMs are so hard to get and desirable now. Back in 2008-2009 I couldn't give them away for even $5, even here at AA. I ended up gutting and throwing 6 or 7 in the dumpster.

That just makes me want to !

 

As far as why the ADAM is more desirable now... it's a matter of a lot more stuff becoming available since 2010. I don't know why everything was so guarded before then, but I'm glad to have helped to change this.

[JamesD]

The ADAM isn't exactly difficult to duplicate in hardware if someone wanted to take the time to do it.
You have 64K of system RAM, an off the shelf video chip, video RAM, an off the shelf sound chip, joystick ports and a cart port.
The only thing unusual vs similar machines is actually ADAMnet which is where everything interfaces to the machine.

There are several problems with ADAMnet
1. The 6801 probably isn't manufactured anymore so you can't get one made with a custom internal ROM anymore
2. The 6803 can't be used due to the way I/O is performed between the 6801 and Z80 system memory.

That means some other microcontroller has to replace the 6801.

A PIC chip that could probably be used but there are potential buss timing issues.
You aren't just porting the software, you have to make the hardware and software timing of the chip close enough to work with the existing software and hardware.
Too fast and you might drop data sent to a device. Too slow... well I think that is unlikely but the interaction must not cause unexpected results.

That would be the same even if you used emulation on a Pi.
Frankly, I'm not a fan of the Pi for emulation. There are faster devices out there if you are just going to attach things off of USB.
The Pi is best if you are physically attaching hardware to it's buss or if you don't need to add hardware.
And Arduino bests the Pi for prebuilt modules that directly attach... but that's just my opinion.

Edited October 16, 2013 by JamesD

[LoTonah]

That just makes me want to !

 

As far as why the ADAM is more desirable now... it's a matter of a lot more stuff becoming available since 2010. I don't know why everything was so guarded before then, but I'm glad to have helped to change this.

 

Yes, you have. By the way, the parts that I ordered from Bob are on the way, and I'm quickly (well...quick for me) bringing myself up to speed on ADAM programming.

 

And I've also spent some time pouring over the ADAMem SDL source code tonight. Next up: installing SDL on the Raspberry Pi and finding a C++ environment I like.

 

I also found the "Keyboard Electrical Matrix" from Radio Shack that they included with the surplus ADAM keyboard I bought a few years back. I don't think I've seen a scan of that particular document. If I remember I'll scan it and include it here.

 

It looks reasonably simple to hook up to the Raspberry Pi thru the GPIO pins. I'd love to have an actual ADAM keyboard for emulator use.

[LoTonah]

 

I was thinking new ADAM hardware. I don't know why ADAMs are so hard to get and desirable now. Back in 2008-2009 I couldn't give them away for even $5, even here at AA. I ended up gutting and throwing 6 or 7 in the dumpster.

 

DAAAMN. If I had seen that back then, I probably would have been all over that. Of course I was going through a divorce back then, so maybe not.

 

And shipping would have been a killer. Not as bad as it is now, but still steep.

 

I think that the community is starting to get stronger again, thanks to the new interest in the ColecoVision. There's a bit of spinoff interest in the ADAM.

[LoTonah]

The ADAM isn't exactly difficult to duplicate in hardware if someone wanted to take the time to do it.

You have 64K of system RAM, an off the shelf video chip, video RAM, an off the shelf sound chip, joystick ports and a cart port.

The only thing unusual vs similar machines is actually ADAMnet which is where everything interfaces to the machine.

 

There are several problems with ADAMnet

1. The 6801 probably isn't manufactured anymore so you can't get one made with a custom internal ROM anymore

2. The 6803 can't be used due to the way I/O is performed between the 6801 and Z80 system memory.

That means some other microcontroller has to replace the 6801.

 

A PIC chip that could probably be used but there are potential buss timing issues.

You aren't just porting the software, you have to make the hardware and software timing of the chip close enough to work with the existing software and hardware.

Too fast and you might drop data sent to a device. Too slow... well I think that is unlikely but the interaction must not cause unexpected results.

 

That would be the same even if you used emulation on a Pi.

Frankly, I'm not a fan of the Pi for emulation. There are faster devices out there if you are just going to attach things off of USB.

The Pi is best if you are physically attaching hardware to it's buss or if you don't need to add hardware.

And Arduino bests the Pi for prebuilt modules that directly attach... but that's just my opinion.

You are right about the Pi being weak in pretty much every part you mentioned, but I think that it is a better all-around computer than anything Arduino (or some of the new Johnny-come-lately Pi clones) due to the buzz around it. There is far more documentation, tools and forum help available for the Pi than I've seen for anything else. Performance is more than good for an ADAM emu (other emulators are just badly ported, in my opinion).

 

I'm personally not terribly interested in a hardware ADAM clone; I want to interface old ADAM hardware to the Pi. Tape Drives, floppy drives, keyboards, controllers... that'd be fun. The 6801 would be software, not hardware based.

Edited October 16, 2013 by LoTonah

[NIAD]

There are several problems with ADAMnet

1. The 6801 probably isn't manufactured anymore so you can't get one made with a custom internal ROM anymore

2. The 6803 can't be used due to the way I/O is performed between the 6801 and Z80 system memory.

That means some other microcontroller has to replace the 6801.

 

I not as technically gifted (probably out of plan old laziness), but would FPGA be the way to go especially considering the roadblocks that the 6801 issues you list present? That is if such a hardware project would ever be attempted.

[Vectorman]

That just makes me want to !

 

As far as why the ADAM is more desirable now... it's a matter of a lot more stuff becoming available since 2010. I don't know why everything was so guarded before then, but I'm glad to have helped to change this.

 

Don't feel so bad. Like I said, I gutted them of the motherboards, which I was able to find a buyer for, who was happy to get them. Just the plastic cases, tape drives and printers ended up in the dumpster and they would have been too heavy to ship anyways.

[JamesD]

I not as technically gifted (probably out of plan old laziness), but would FPGA be the way to go especially considering the roadblocks that the 6801 issues you list present? That is if such a hardware project would ever be attempted.

You could certainly use an FPGA to duplicate the 6801. There is a *partial* (?) implementation of the 6801 already out there.

But the existing implementation lacks some of the on chip I/O if I remember right (?) so that's one potential problem and instruction timings are likely to be different which could create the same timing issues as using a PIC microcontroller.

Modifying PIC assembly is a bit easier FOR ME than modifying VHDL, though I have spent a lot of time studying VHDL.

The biggest difference is going to be price. I think the largest PIC can be bought in single quantity for under $5 but an FPGA large enough to hold the logic for a 6801 is probably going to be over $25 in the same quantity but I'd have to check the number of gates the CPU, ROM and internal RAM take up. That doesn't sound small to me.

 

Developing for a PIC only requires a small programmer kit you assemble yourself bought at the local Radio Shack for around $20.

Developing for an FPGA will probably cost you at least $40 for the smallest FPGA dev kit and $200 for something like the DE1.

 

I'm actually looking at porting the code to a PIC chip for a project.

Just sending data on the ADAMnet buss should be pretty easy. It's the host RAM interface I worry about.

The 6801 could just use DMA through the 6801 ports like they are RAM, but the PIC might be tougher.

 

[LoTonah]

Here is the document that I was talking about a few days ago--the Archer 75 key computer keyboard (Cat. No. 277-1020). Sold at Radio Shack, it was a surplus Coleco ADAM keyboard without an enclosure.

 

I've never seen this document on the internet before.