Venture Official Release

[Marius]

Very easy when it's socketed. Of course I would never share it with anyone. I firmly believe that selling ROM's has Zero impact on pirating.

 

I have the same philosophy. I pay for everything always, even on PC/Mac. I buy all my digital music, I do not copy movies.

 

In fact: with bought movies on DVD we have the same issue. Good, paying customers are punished. When I watch my DVD first I have to see all those anti-piracy parts, without the ability of SKIPPING before I finally can see my movie.

 

Besides that I really want to support (financial) everybody who is keeping the a8 scene alive. But… I expect a little more cooperation than what currently is happening here.

[tep392]

Take the price of the cart and subtract parts/labor to set the ROM price. Then you don't loose a penny of margin and increase sales.

[Marius]

I don't need cheaper. I think $40 is a fair price for something that took zillions of hours. I appreciate the work and all the time someone invests in a production.

 

I hate custom fee, and i dislike shipping (it takes ages, I'm most of the time not at home -> lost packages sometimes, items that get broken on their trip).

 

And my biggest problem with all this is the fact that a cart is very hard to update.

[peteym5]

I have read the most recent posts from The Doctor, Pro Wizzard, and Tep392. First thing I have to say we cannot account for all the for each country's customs procedures. They would all be different than that of the United States. It is possible to take things apart and re-glue packaging and labels without it being noticed. I re-glued packages before sending stuff back to someone myself a few times. A label can be heated up with a heat gun and peeled off without ripping it.

 

If you have any concerns or suggestion, you can email Lance at Atari Sales directly. Lance and Sal also told me never do a floppy version because any copy protection can be by passed. Not everyone has the ability to copy a cartridge. If someone does, they would be caught if they post the ROM Image File on here. We would have Albert remove it.

 

The Pal issue may have been in-deliberately corrected when the game was re-coded, re-written, and compressed to fit onto a 16K cartridge. Sometimes bank switching does not work correctly with VBI timing or if the cartridge board is not making proper contact with the Atari Cartridge slot.

 

Our games are well tested looking for bugs, glitches, and errors for months before a cartridge goes up for sale. Most of it is done in house. I am doing beta-demos for a few new games. We have a selected few beta-testers working for us. I considered a demo for Venture before, but decided to focus on new games.

[Marius]

@pete

 

you are a fine guy. I really appreciate all the time you take to answer our posts here. I think you are not the 'problem' here, and I take your advice serious. I'll contact Lance as soon as possible.

 

One thing though: you write: the game is tested for hours, but still there are problems. I don't want to bash you or your procedure, but I hope you see here that it is very hard to release a completely bug-free program, and due to the nature of the storage device, a cart is not the most ideal carrier for a game that probably will need an update sooner or later.

 

But case closed now. I'll contact Lance about this.

 

Thanks again for all the time you invested in the game, and in answering these posts.

[gozar]

Lance and Sal also told me never do a floppy version because any copy protection can be by passed. Not everyone has the ability to copy a cartridge. If someone does, they would be caught if they post the ROM Image File on here. We would have Albert remove it.

 

I do appreciate your hard work, and want to see you succeed. But you are being fed bad information. Nowadays a cartridge is a lot easier to copy than a floppy, anyone who has the Atarimax USB programmer can easily dump the cartridge.

 

This piracy talk is holding you back on your success. Look at Dungeon Hunt. A game that is not a well know property of which he has easily sold 40(?) copies and has a waiting list. "The greatest danger to the success of most artists is not piracy but obscurity"

 

I went to Video61's website. There is no way I would ever order from a company where they don't even own a domain name, let alone a website stuck in 1998.

 

I do wish you success, the A8 community needs developers. But it is a two way street, the developers also need users. I, for one, want to be able to play what I purchased on my 800xl and under emulation on my Xbox and Android game player. I cannot do that with Venture.

[Marius]

This is what I have emailed to Video61:

 

Hi Video61,

You are offering Venture for Atari 8bit.

I am interested, but I do want to order the 16K ROM DUMP of this game (the file that is burned into the eprom).

I have bad experience with shipping from USA to NL (lost packages, custom fee, broken packages etc), and when the cart would arrive my house the first thing I would do is dumping the data, and never touching the original cart again. I am going to play this game on Emulator and on my Atari 8bit using my own multicart solution.

Of course I'll pay the same amount of money for the Rom Dump.

I also can sign something where I declare that I will never spread this file with anyone else.

I hope you can make me an offer.

Thanks a lot

I keep my fingers crossed... and one more thing: What if the 16K version is still buggy? Perhaps Pete can answer that question: what IF Video61 agrees... and there will be an update? Can I count on it that I'll get the updated version then?

[Mclaneinc]

I think you will be out of luck there, as Petey and Sal have the final say it really is unlikely to happen.

 

As I've said to Petey and Sal before, I respect their selling method, I just think its wrong because they are missing out on other sales and depriving old Atarians who only have emulation left the chance to play these fine games.

 

How Sal took that to mean I wanted to pirate all his games is astonishing..

 

I won't claim to be a total angel, I'll often check out a film on a download BUT I do buy LOTS of stuff, most of the stuff I've watched I buy because my wife and I DO rewatch good films, there's been stuff I never brought simply because the film wasn't worth watching in the first place after seeing it. I'll happily prove it with a jpg and a message that is time and content related to show my VAST collection of genuine DVD's and BLU-RAYS.

 

Software I am more choosy about and trial loads of stuff and if I like it like Directory Opus on the PC I'll buy it (even though its damn expensive) and donate to freeware stuff like Renamemaster which is brilliant. Games and especially 8bit stuff I normally buy but have been given the odd cart at times which is great and I'm totally grateful and of course I adore the digital downloads on the C64 as do many.

 

Shame you are missing out on the extra revenue but I respect your choice, just keep making games please..

[Marius]

I just think its wrong because they are missing out on other sales and depriving old Atarians who only have emulation left the chance to play these fine games.

 

My biggest problem is that they stick to a storage solution that can not be updated. Since this game is incompatible with PAL (I'm as surprised as Petey is by the fact the nobody complained so far) it's a very irritating circumstance when an update is needed.

 

Next to that I find it a waste of resources and shipping costs to sell me something I will never use.

 

I guess Video61 wants to make some money, so I'll wait for their "green light"-email.

 

In the meantime I hope Petey found the issue yellowman was referring to.

[flashjazzcat]

There is no way I would ever order from a company where they don't even own a domain name, let alone a website stuck in 1998.

Moreover, it seems the whole delivery method is stuck in the same era.

 

Not offering a digital download (or a ROM emailed to a paying customer) is rather silly. Some collectors will happily pay a premium for the whole physical package, and here is Marius offering the full physical-package price for digital delivery. And I'll vouch for the fact it's often a royal pain in the arse to get anything shipped out of the USA without being fleeced at the destination here in Europe. A dumped ROM is no less or more likely to find its way out into the wild than a copied floppy or a leaked, emailed digital version.

 

Odd.

Edited December 6, 2014 by flashjazzcat

[Marius]

Hi!

 

Got the reply from Lance (Video61). He wrote that he can't do this, because he can not decide this by himself, because Sal and Pete do have a vote too in this.

 

Well MclaneInc is right, the chance this will happen is reduced to let's say… ZERO!

 

Sigh.

[Albert]

Hi!

 

Got the reply from Lance (Video61). He wrote that he can't do this, because he can not decide this by himself, because Sal and Pete do have a vote too in this.

 

Well MclaneInc is right, the chance this will happen is reduced to let's say… ZERO!

 

Sigh.

 

I would never buy games from someone who would sell the ROM image of a game without the author's permission. So I'm glad he said no.

 

..Al

[Marius]

 

I would never buy games from someone who would sell the ROM image of a game without the author's permission. So I'm glad he said no.

 

..Al

 

Hi Al,

 

Please keep it IN the context. The context is: I can get the ROM IMAGE myself from the physical cart, so there is absolutely zero reason to stick to: you have to buy the cart.

It's the data (the WORK) I'm paying for.

 

I'm not asking for the source.

I'm willing to sign for: I WILL NOT SPREAD IT!

I'm paying the FULL price.

 

It's an attitude that makes no sense at all.

 

The reason I want a file is:

 

1) Shipping is expensive and not reliable (broken, lost packages)

2) Files can be updated -> there is a BUG in the game (the cart), so a CART is a terrible choice.

 

Thanks

Marius

[Albert]

Marius,

 

I'm not arguing about whether or not a ROM release should be made available for purchase, I'm just saying that Video61 is not in a position to give you the ROM if that's not the wishes of the author. Ultimately it is Pete's decision, for better or worse. If it was my game, I'd gladly sell you the ROM image (for less than a physical cart), knowing it's trivially easy for people to dump and/or spread the game if they wanted to.

 

You're never going to stop piracy, so there's no sense in punishing the people who legitimately want to pay you for a digital version if that's what they prefer.

 

..Al

[Marius]

Hi Albert!

 

You're right, I did not understand your response right.

 

Thanks!

Greetz

Marius

[Shawn Jefferson]

Moreover, it seems the whole delivery method is stuck in the same era.

 

Not offering a digital download (or a ROM emailed to a paying customer) is rather silly. Some collectors will happily pay a premium for the whole physical package, and here is Marius offering the full physical-package price for digital delivery. And I'll vouch for the fact it's often a royal pain in the arse to get anything shipped out of the USA without being fleeced at the destination here in Europe. A dumped ROM is no less or more likely to find its way out into the wild than a copied floppy or a leaked, emailed digital version.

 

Odd.

 

It's entirely the good will of the community, and respect for the Author's wishes that is keeping it from being pirated, nothing to do with the medium it's being sold on. That this doesn't seem to be understood is the truly odd thing.

 

But, in the end, it's their product to do with what they will... We can all agree to disagree on their reasons for that.

[Marius]

Ok... Got a good reply from video61.

 

He explains to me that when a rom dump is shown on the Internet they can conclude it was spread by someone who bought the cart.

 

When they (now) start releasing rom dumps it would make it harder to find the person who started spreading. (I used my own words)

 

Good enough.

 

I'll wait for the bug fix and purchase a cart then.

[+remowilliams]

Err, what....? LOL

 

This is some of the craziest reality denying twilight zone shit I've seen since the decade long witch hunt for non existent hordes of Jaguar pirates.

[flashjazzcat]

Charge for the physical package but give the ROM away for free and request donations, then. If it's all down to the good will of the community, the collectors will buy the cart and the rest might donate some money. Some won't... But hey: this is a thirty year old computer FFS.

 

Of course that's just one take: the author should do as he sees fit.

[+Stephen]

No sense in arguing, I'll just support those I want to with my money, and walk away from those I want to. I think this horse has been beaten way past dead.

[+CyranoJ]

Ok... Got a good reply from video61.

 

He explains to me that when a rom dump is shown on the Internet they can conclude it was spread by someone who bought the cart.

 

When they (now) start releasing rom dumps it would make it harder to find the person who started spreading. (I used my own words)

 

Good enough.

 

I'll wait for the bug fix and purchase a cart then.

 

 

LOL, Whut??? Errr.... Watermarks...

 

But at that point it's too late anyway, so what's it matter?

[+remowilliams]

No sense in arguing, I'll just support those I want to with my money, and walk away from those I want to. I think this horse has been beaten way past dead.

 

Agreed, though the sheer astonishment factor is really hard to shake.

 

It is almost incomprehensible to see this kind of attitude and utterly mistaken convictions on the part of the developers and distributor in the face of well... reality and the support and history in this day and age of the community that is the target audience.

 

It's unbelievably ridiculous, insulting and in direct conflict of the developers apparent desire for sales/income above all else - and for some completely unfathomable reason they don't see it.

[+Stephen]

It's almost incomprehensible in this forum. The past ten years in the Jag forum it was very common though (in a highly vocal minority group of a$$holes I might add). I'm enjoying playing my copy of Dungeon Hunt, which also came with an ATR, and there will be a download available, and it was on an unprotected floppy disk, and had a rather nice colour box and manual, and a custom flashlight, and was $20 I might add. Like I said, I spend my money with the right people.

[_The Doctor__]

I love Dungeon Hunt!

Did I mention... I love Dungeon Hunt?

In fact I am playing Dungeon Hunt!

Must Kill Dungeon Monsters!!!!!!!!!!! Yep.... M.K.D.M. it's a way of life!

You all must join in the fight and help build the community maps... I wanna play community maps edition for christmas so get them posted to the Dungeon Hunt PM or threads already!!!

 

Death to the zombie!!! Hack up a horrible spider!! kill zem ... KILL ZEM ALL!

[peteym5]

I am specifically trying to get more information about what is going on with the game running on PAL. Video 61 had several sales outside the United States into Europe. If there was a serious problem, all of them would had reported something long ago. So far only two people suggested something is going on. I know it was the Williams version of the game. Still did not get any feedback about the 16K version having an issue running on Pal. Venture was tested for months before the cartridge went up for sale last year.

 

By the way we are not alone with glitches with games on cartridges. I remember some Atari 2600, NES, and Sega Genesis games having a glitch in them. Tempest Xtreem and Venture was tested before going on sale. I released beta demos of Delta Space Arena and Secretum Labyrinth and fixed several things already before those are go to Atari Sales and tested on a real cartridge on real hardware. Any software could be out for years before a glitch is discovered, does not matter which medium is used. A DVD Rom on a modern game system cannot be patch or updated either.

Edited December 7, 2014 by peteym5