dragos Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 haha, take your ball and go home.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragos Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 of course, when you have warez in your name, noone takes your issues with licensing and copyright seriously anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon375 Posted November 14, 2013 Author Share Posted November 14, 2013 I have heard multiple viewpoints through this thread, and I have listened. I will remove the mentioned items from the archive (that was never a problem). I have already removed Altirra from the list. I will go through the rest and make the responsible edits. I never wanted to "screw" anybody out of their work. I'm beginning to see I may have been in error to even offer this collection in the first place. 30 year old copyrights, gnu releases and all that are beyond what I feel like dealing with. If I withdraw the offer, then all that goes away too. I can maintain my personal collection any way I see fit. In another 10-15 years when there really is none of this stuff around anywhere, then maybe the environment will be right for me to share. Until then, I will write it off as a bad idea, and apologize to anybody who felt I was trying to take away their rights to their hard work. It was not my intention to do so. I'm sorry. This collection will not be available from me until I can sort out the proper rights and permissions. End of subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Gemintronic Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 I would appreciate a collection that had *just* public domain files. It's not always easy to pick out what is a pirate hack and what is shareware. I'd be very interested in a collection ready-to-go for emulators and such. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atari8warez Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 (edited) of course, when you have warez in your name, noone takes your issues with licensing and copyright seriously anyway Ah so you assumed (very wrongly) that I am in ripping business because I have "warez" in my nickname, well surprise I am not. Should I assume someone is a prehistoric animal because they have a Dragon on their nick GNU GPL allows charging for the distribution but does not specify a criteria for the amount. I on the other hand do, and I limit the fee to the maximum required to distribute it without incurring cost. that fee covers the cost of the media and postage. GPL allows the distributor to charge so that FREE software can reach people freely but since it is also available for download there is no reason to charge more than what's necessary for distribution. Some people including me, bundle the software with a hardware and that's fine as they don't charge for the software seperately. Edited November 14, 2013 by atari8warez 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragos Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 so, are you saying you do not have one .atr or other copy of software that you didnt pay for in your collection? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNameOfTheGame Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 (edited) so, are you saying you do not have one .atr or other copy of software that you didnt pay for in your collection? There are still individuals still putting many hours into development for this platform..think about that! No one should profit off of their labors (except them of course ). Edited November 14, 2013 by TheNameOfTheGame Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fibrewire Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 (edited) I'm on an iPad so Please excuse the brevity of this post. * Piracy is not tolerated on this site. It's a good way to attract negative attention to atariage and it's users, and there is just too much valuable info here to be jeopardized with unauthorized distribution of other's hard work. Also, count on his thread being locked for taking away from more productive threads (I.e. Threads that don't promote hostility) That being said, distribution by torrent with good keywords is a great way to preserve one's own collection and have the NSA foot the bill for storing the data. * Ask first, shoot later. Most people are agreeable with preserving and sharing their work. But even if it's abandon ware, it's good practice to ask others opinions before hurting feelings or worse, provoking litigation. I'm sure intentions are pure, but please try to respect people's complaints. Remember we want solutions, not arguments. * Avoid flame war buzz words. There are a few things that shouldn't be instigated on this forum. Just browse for locked topics to get an idea of what's not tolerated here. * Can't see the forest for the trees? Please don't get stuck on the details and miss the big picture, no matter how offensive those details might be. I know the most revered members of this forum are the ones that take it one step further by minimizing argument and turn animosity into productivity. It's in everyone's best interest to work together and minimize argument. For example, I think I'm being helpful by making this post, but I'm sure it will upset someone. Let's just try to work together, because that is where all the fun is. Nobody wants to play by themself... Edited November 14, 2013 by fibrewire 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atari8warez Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 (edited) so, are you saying you do not have one .atr or other copy of software that you didnt pay for in your collection? No, I am not saying that, in fact I have many software that i have not paid for (freeware, shareware, abandonware, public domain etc..) but I don't distribute copies for profit. Heck I don't even distribute the software I write for profit let alone other's work GLP or otherwise, respecting the licenses (more importantly people's wishes) will only benefit this community where you can not afford to loose developers, there aren't too many to start with. Edited November 14, 2013 by atari8warez 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fibrewire Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 Just so you know, I'm interested in Dragon375's collection. Can't we just sign a waiver accepting all liabilities and get the disc over to atarimania? Let's not let this stuff disappear forever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon375 Posted November 14, 2013 Author Share Posted November 14, 2013 My collection is no longer up for distribution. I have listened to the advice in this thread, and find it too complicated a deal to be involved in. Not what I intended when I started it. Finding, getting and organizing the software was a pretty huge job and took me a long time. I thought I had asked a reasonable fee to distribute it, but there is no reason to expect me to invest further effort into it if I am not allowed to charge anything to recoup my investment. I will not violate others rights who developed this software. Until I can secure their permission, I dont have anything to share. This is really the last I will post about it. Moderator please lock this thread. I'm done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragos Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 awesome, another person taking their ball and going home... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charliecron Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 yarr! Well there certainly is some software I will be removing from my collection thats for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 How do you separate charging for the work of organizing what we've all copied anyway from selling the software itself? I don't mind if something I've written is in there as long as the person (1) makes no ownership or representative claims on the content (2) doesn't modify my work in any way. I had a problem with Sal re-branding Castle Crisis as Warlords and selling it while AA has my carts in the store, but the freely distributed binary I'm not too worried about as long as you leave it alone and don't pretend to be my distributor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emc Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 No, I am not saying that, in fact I have many software that i have not paid for (freeware, shareware, abandonware, public domain etc..) but I don't distribute copies for profit. Heck I don't even distribute the software I write for profit let alone other's work GLP or otherwise, respecting the licenses (more importantly people's wishes) will only benefit this community where you can not afford to loose developers, there aren't too many to start with. Why are you trying to stomp on peoples rights? From this page: http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.html Many people believe that the spirit of the GNU Project is that you should not charge money for distributing copies of software, or that you should charge as little as possible — just enough to cover the cost. This is a misunderstanding. Actually, we encourage people who redistribute free software to charge as much as they wish or can. If this seems surprising to you, please read on. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragos Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 Thank you for clearing that up. I think it completely invalidates some members perception of the GNU license 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sloopy Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 Damn, and this would have costed me more then $20 to D/L... oh well... I will make sure I remove above said software from my collection also... ok, AspeQt removed... sloopy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Gemintronic Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 Anyone know of a public domain collection? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atari8warez Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 (edited) No, I am not saying that, in fact I have many software that i have not paid for (freeware, shareware, abandonware, public domain etc..) but I don't distribute copies for profit. Heck I don't even distribute the software I write for profit let alone other's work GLP or otherwise, respecting the licenses (more importantly people's wishes) will only benefit this community where you can not afford to loose developers, there aren't too many to start with. Why are you trying to stomp on peoples rights? From this page: http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.html Many people believe that the spirit of the GNU Project is that you should not charge money for distributing copies of software, or that you should charge as little as possible — just enough to cover the cost. This is a misunderstanding. Actually, we encourage people who redistribute free software to charge as much as they wish or can. If this seems surprising to you, please read on. I know all about GNU GPL licensing but I will ask you a simple question, how would you feel if I took the AspeQt source code and turned into a proprietary software (there is nothing to prevent me from doing so in the GPL license) and sell it for whatever amount I wanted to, and stop developing the free open-source version. Maybe that's what I should do, perhaps somebody else will pick-up the open-source version and further develop it from now on. I would however prefer not doing so and let everybody have free access to the code, modify it to their specific needs, improve it or learn from it, that's the spirit of open-source software. It's not out there for some enterprising individual to take and sell it for profit, if this goes against the grain of GPL licensing I would have no problem changing it to freeware instead. Sometimes ethics comes before the laws and regulations, if you are familiar with fishing I will give you an example, lining a fish is not illegal in fact any fish caught with the hook in the mouth is legal, but many anglers frown upon people who line fish because they don't find the practice ethical, think about that (for people not familiar with the practice of lining: it involves an angler setting up his tackle so that when it is in the water allows the fish to swim into the line with his mouth open and get caught to the hook by itself without any angler skill involved) Edited November 14, 2013 by atari8warez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atari8warez Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 Damn, and this would have costed me more then $20 to D/L... oh well... I will make sure I remove above said software from my collection also... ok, AspeQt removed... sloopy. I doubt you really use it anyway (APE anyone?), but don't you have more pressing issues then worrying about AspeQt? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fibrewire Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 (edited) I know all about GNU GPL licensing but I will ask you a simple question, how would you feel if I took the AspeQt source code and turned into a proprietary software (there is nothing to prevent me from doing so in the GPL license) and sell it for whatever amount I wanted to, and stop developing the free open-source version. Maybe that's what I should do, perhaps somebody else will pick the open-source version and further develop it from now on. I would however prefer not doing so and let everybody have free access to the code, modify it to their specific needs, improve it or learn from it, that's the spirit of open-source software. It's not out there for some enterprising individual to take and sell it for profit, if this goes against the grain of GPL licensing I would have no problem changing it to freeware instead.As I deal with OSS more than most, the goal is to take that OSS and use it to build as much business as possible on top of that useful code base. If you happened to write that code, then congratulations you now might be anywhere between $50k-$200k year job. If tons of people depend on that code, but you got hit by a bus (or become a hermit) then congratulations, someone doesn't have to reverse engineer your binary executable, replace your software with something inferior, or worse yet, create a screen scraping program to extract data from your (soon to be) obsolete software. The goal is to spread the wealth around as much as possible, that way more people will be interested to not only protect their investment, but to also let them know they can depend on you for updates and fixes. Make it easy for people to WANT to support the creator, not WANT TO REPLACE THEM. And no, I'm not trolling. It's the defacto standard that makes open source work in the corporate world Edited November 14, 2013 by fibrewire 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emc Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 atari8warez, Nobody is worried about your threats. You can't close anything. AspeQt is distributed under the GPL. You can't take away my rights. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atari8warez Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 (edited) atari8warez, Nobody is worried about your threats. You can't close anything. AspeQt is distributed under the GPL. You can't take away my rights. Had I done that, do you really think that you could do much?, will you sue me . The least I can do is to stop working on it, and it looks like this may be the best idea anyway. So, I do retract my request for not including AspeQt and my other GPL licensed software from the collection, apparently you can include them and sell it at whatever price you want. Edited November 14, 2013 by atari8warez 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magic Knight Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 (edited) I know all about GNU GPL licensing but I will ask you a simple question, how would you feel if I took the AspeQt source code and turned into a proprietary software (there is nothing to prevent me from doing so in the GPL license) and sell it for whatever amount I wanted to, and stop developing the free open-source version. Maybe that's what I should do, perhaps somebody else will pick-up the open-source version and further develop it from now on. I would however prefer not doing so and let everybody have free access to the code, modify it to their specific needs, improve it or learn from it, that's the spirit of open-source software. It's not out there for some enterprising individual to take and sell it for profit, if this goes against the grain of GPL licensing I would have no problem changing it to freeware instead. Sometimes ethics comes before the laws and regulations, if you are familiar with fishing I will give you an example, lining a fish is not illegal in fact any fish caught with the hook in the mouth is legal, but many anglers frown upon people who line fish because they don't find the practice ethical, think about that (for people not familiar with the practice of lining: it involves an angler setting up his tackle so that when it is in the water allows the fish to swim into the line with his mouth open and get caught to the hook by itself without any angler skill involved) Please don't, I use it alongside a $15 breakout board as a low cost sio/pc solution that keeps this as my favourite way to use the atari in this way with out costing the earth. Myself and (no doubt) a few others appreciate where this has gone and the efforts made by all in this application. Edited November 14, 2013 by Magic Knight 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragos Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 you can indeed fork the code and do what you want with it according to the license. I sincerely hope you do. Since I already have the source, I'll just post it back if you remove it under the same license and someone else will pickup development. maybe add back apetime and such... Empty threats.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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