cschell Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 Ok, I was bored and I decided the 7800 needed some love. So I put together what I think is a pretty nifty reconfigurable multicart for the 7800. The software is nowhere near finished at this point, but I've tested most of the key aspects of the hardware. A picture of the board is attached at the end of this message. I haven't actually tested the bankswitching schemes, but I have written initial VHDL for them all. As I got it all working on the 2600 in the Cuttle Cart I'm not that worried about being able to make it work in the 7800. Features: Multimedia Card Interface: Loads games, bankswitching schemes, and menu from MMC. Reads standard FAT16 formatted MMCs. Games can be copied onto the MMC directly from a PC with a MMC reader/writer. The MMC can be made available to the game after it is loaded if desired. 512Kb SRAM for running games. 256Kb Flash Ram for holding OS. Flash RAM can be updated from files on the MMC. 32Kb Secondary Flash RAM, selectable via on board jumper. This provides an emergency boot system to recover in case there was ever a failure while flashing an update to the main flash. It is also updatable from the MMC. SRAM based ~5000 gate FPGA for bankswitching. FPGA is configured from a file on the MMC associated with each game. New bankswitching formats can be added by simply placing the appropriate file on the MMC and associating it with the game. Can be reconfigured any number of times. 2K Battery Backed SRAM - For either implementing the high score cartridge feature, or for storing configurations such as last game played, etc. I'm not decided on this one, and I would have to talk to Curt about using the HSC. Pokey Socket: 40 Pin Socket for installing a Pokey. FPGA controls whether POKEY is available and where it is mapped. POKEY audio line is connected to the 7800 audio in. The POKEYs serial lines are also available for serial communication from the cart to a computer, accessed through a 2.5mm stereo jack. (I haven't actually tested the POKEY aspects yet. Verified the connections, but that's it. So I don't know for certain if/how the serial will work. Hey, it's a first prototype after all, I went straight to PCB for this design.) Fits inside a modified Atari Cart. (No screw hole, darn HUGE POKEY takes up too much space. Obviously need slots for MMC and stereo jack as well.) Completely Self Contained: No need for external power supplies, cables, etc. (Assuming you load files on the MMC using a flash reader/writer. They're cheap, ~$15, after all.) Plays 7800 and 2600 games. I must say I'm pretty excited about this product as its so flexible. I plan to have it operate based on a menu file which is copied into the root directory of the MMC. The menu file will contain the names of the games as one wants them to display in the on screen menu, which is stored along with the filename of the game, the filename of the bankswitching scheme to load, and the filename of the bootstrap code to load that will launch the game (thus taking care of any games that require "special" start up states.) As the $15.00 MMC I picked up holds 32Mb of data, I think it might be possible to store an ASCII copy of the games instructions as well, allowing one to view the instructions before starting the game if desired. The FPGA, while very small by FPGA standards, can easily accomodate the known bankswitching schemes, which means it should be able to play just about everything. (I don't know about Pitfall 2, I think the extra sound hardware might fit in the FPGA, but I've never tried and I'm just not interested enough to work through the Patent to figure out exactly what's involved.) As the 7800 is the console that got me into the whole classic gaming scene, and into tinkering with them and thus creating the products some of you have come to love, I figured it was time to do somthing really cool for it. I don't know if it will become a product or not. It's not exactly cheap to produce (kitchen sink syndrome). It would probably be around $200.00 without the MMC. So figure that people would have to shell out about $250.00 total for it, an MMC, a reader, tax, shipping, etc. I'm not sure how many people would be interested in something like this at that price. So, thoughts, comments, opinions anyone? Should I cross post to the 2600 forum? (As 2600 fans might find it appealing as it does play 2600 games.) (Eventually I might even get around to putting this up on my website. ) Chad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPUWIZ Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 Sick, I love it, you can sign me up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oesii Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 With all those features, you're price sounds good to me too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MegaManFan Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 Third me in! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonesome_pa Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 I would love to have this, but, just don't have the extra cash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrizzLee Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 Chad, Heck yeah, I want one Most definitely cross-post to the 2600 forum. $200 is what the proposed Da-Vinci board would cost. This appears to be a better solution as it can run 7800 games and therefore it is sure to work on my 7800!! Is there any limitations on the games that won't work? Pitfall II is probably the only one. Pokey chip on board hopefully means the entire 7800 library will work. If it is anything along the lines of quality, support and care you have given to the Cuttle Cart, I'll take two. Bankzilla be damned!!! Finally an all-in-one solution for the masses. Enthusiastically waiting, -Lee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 Count me in. Tempest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEBRO Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 This sounds great. Now I have to come up with the cash some how. hmmm....maybe if I sell my Cuttle Cart before you put these in production, I can make a few bucks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 Wow, that's pretty damn cool. At $250 they probably won't sell as fast as the Cuttle Cart, but I think you'll still be able to sell quite a few of them. You can count me in! ..Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt Vendel Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 Oh great hw guru.... "we're not worthy, we're not worthy..." Excuse me while I go wipe the drool off the floor.... PS: I take a dozen please!!! Chad, you're one talented gamer!!! Bring that to Phillyclassic and let people check it out, I heard Atariage is going to have some very spiffy looking professional display stands at the show, be a nice place to showcase your latest creation! :-) Curt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mos6507 Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 The only disadvantage I see with this over a CC is that it has no direct connection to a PC. So while it's great for end-users as a multicart, it might not be that convenient for developers quickly debugging changes to sourcecode as you'd have to shuttle an MMC card back and forth to the unit. So I think I'd stick to my Cuttle Cart unless I wanted to write a 7800 game. So this thing basically does everything the Cuttle Cart does as far as banking schemes PLUS 7800 mode? Can it do Starpath RAM? Can it fit even the largest 7800 games on it (like Scrapyard Dog)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin42 Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 Definitely count me in, this sounds great. Would the menu work for 2600 games as well? I was just thinking over the weekend (While playing around with my Cuttle Cart) that it'd be great to have something similar for the 7800 and figured it probably wouldn't happen due to the size of the market! (and I figured the games would be too large to work the same way as the CC) What's the largest MMC card one can get? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cschell Posted March 4, 2003 Author Share Posted March 4, 2003 This sounds great. Now I have to come up with the cash some how. hmmm....maybe if I sell my Cuttle Cart before you put these in production, I can make a few bucks I'd wait and make sure they'll actually go to production before you sell off that Cuttle Cart. You know how fickle I can be at times. Chad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cschell Posted March 4, 2003 Author Share Posted March 4, 2003 Wow, that's pretty damn cool. At $250 they probably won't sell as fast as the Cuttle Cart, but I think you'll still be able to sell quite a few of them. You can count me in! ..Al Just to be clear, I would only sell the cart itself, probably for about $200.00. It would be up to you to obtain the MMC and way to write to it. Some of you may already have flash card reader/writer devices or MMCs for use with cameras, etc. Chad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cschell Posted March 4, 2003 Author Share Posted March 4, 2003 The only disadvantage I see with this over a CC is that it has no direct connection to a PC. So while it's great for end-users as a multicart, it might not be that convenient for developers quickly debugging changes to sourcecode as you'd have to shuttle an MMC card back and forth to the unit. So I think I'd stick to my Cuttle Cart unless I wanted to write a 7800 game. Actually that's why I put the serial connection on there, to make it still function as a development platform. If the serial connection works ok I hope to be able to set it up so that it can enter a development mode where one downloads games over serial rather than through the MMC. Not entirely certain on any details or if this will happen. The cart has access to the 6502 IRQ line as well, so perhaps an interrupt based development bios could be loaded to setup things like break points. Someone other than me would have to take care of writing such an app though. It might be somewhat kludgey in that you would have to load the Dev. OS off the MMC like a game to enter debug mode though. Alas. So this thing basically does everything the Cuttle Cart does as far as banking schemes PLUS 7800 mode? Can it do Starpath RAM? Can it fit even the largest 7800 games on it (like Scrapyard Dog)? Yes it will be able to do Starpath RAM. But it does not have an audio connection so it would have to load Starpath games like the emulators do. Probably a replacement BIOS would have to be written for each multiload game that copies the correct code to the correct areas for each game. This frees me from having to license the product though as no part of the Starpath BIOS would be included. The largest 7800 games are 144K. There is plenty of room for them. Chad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cschell Posted March 4, 2003 Author Share Posted March 4, 2003 Definitely count me in, this sounds great. Would the menu work for 2600 games as well? What's the largest MMC card one can get? Yes the menu will list 2600 games, and the largest MMC I'm aware of is 128Mb. Chad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dantaipan Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 Very cool. Couldn't personally afford one, but very cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Mitch Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 I want one, too. Mitch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceCold Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 Okay, I've got a question. could this be used on a 2600, if you're just playing 2600 games? Or does it HAVE to be on a 7800 whether you're playing 7800 games or 2600 games? Either way, it sounds cool, and I'll try to scrounge up some money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceCold Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 BTW - what is MMC anyways? I'm guessing it's a type of memory card type thing, so my question is: would the RCA Universal CompactFlash memory cards I have for my digital camera work with this? If so, i already have a reader/writer, and a couple cards, so it will lower the total cost for me(less extra stuff to buy) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Weis Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 Please add my name to the ever growing List! sounds GREAT!! take care, Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MegaManFan Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 Just to be clear, I would only sell the cart itself, probably for about $200.00. It would be up to you to obtain the MMC and way to write to it. Some of you may already have flash card reader/writer devices or MMCs for use with cameras, etc. Chad Okay, forgive me for being stupid, but my digital camera takes 3.5" floppy disks. Is an MMC the "memory stick" I've seen that some cameras have? I take it you can buy the memory stick and the reader for it seperately without having to own one of the cameras. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPUWIZ Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 http://www.mmca.org/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 Hubba hubba! I'm in for some of that sweet ack-shon! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mindfield Posted March 5, 2003 Share Posted March 5, 2003 Definitely count me in, this sounds great. Would the menu work for 2600 games as well? What's the largest MMC card one can get? Yes the menu will list 2600 games, and the largest MMC I'm aware of is 128Mb. Chad What about the use of SDcards? They're essentially the same thing, but can come in larger configurations (up to the recently developed 1GB card). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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