Classic games are getting expensive

[Rex Dart]

The definition does state "objects", specifically.

 

Four hard drives full of ROM dumps, movies, mp3s, other various data? That's a collection of hard drives, numbering four.

[MaximRecoil]

The definition does state "objects", specifically.

 

Four hard drives full of ROM dumps, movies, mp3s, other various data? That's a collection of hard drives, numbering four.

So a typical music album doesn't have a collection of songs on it? If that's the case, practically every record company that has ever existed has been using the word "collection" improperly for ages (here's one example of perhaps thousands).

 

By the way, it doesn't have to be physical objects; it only needs to be "things", and a computer file is a definable "thing".

Edited December 23, 2013 by MaximRecoil

[Rex Dart]

So a typical music album doesn't have a collection of songs on it? If that's the case, practically every record company that has ever existed has been using the word "collection" improperly for ages (here's one example of perhaps thousands).

 

By the way, it doesn't have to be physical objects; it only needs to be "things", and a computer file is a definable "thing".

 

 

Different use of the word "collection" there. And most definitions of the word "thing" do say that it's a physical, tangible item.

[high voltage]

Yeah I thought I start a game collection on my iphone and add this to my 'normal' gaming collection, but it's just not the same.

[Manoau2002]

I don't think things (mp3's, roms) that are downloaded are collections. If I download something on my computer I go to the website press download and than put in on my ipod or on a harddrive.My vinyl collection on the other hand I go out several times a week often traveling long distances to acquire more vinyl for my music collection. I pay money for it. I put it in a box and grade it. I put it on a shelf and take it off to listen to it and look at the art work. I research the vinyl online. I spend hours cleaning it. I buy expensive equipment to get the best sound possible.

[MaximRecoil]

Different use of the word "collection" there. And most definitions of the word "thing" do say that it's a physical, tangible item.

No, it isn't a different use of the word "collection". It is a group of things sharing a common element, gathered together because they are of interest to someone.

 

If the game programs themselves can't form a collection, then they can't form part of a collection either, which means if someone were to erase all the game data on someone's collection of video games, then that wouldn't affect their collection at all.

 

A computer file on a hard drive is fundamentally no different than words on a paper. A hard drive uses platters instead of paper, and stores information using magnetic states instead of ink stains.

 

Someone who has a collection of celebrity autographs isn't considered to be a collector of ink-stained paper, he is a collector of autographs, which is the information conveyed by each of those ink-stained pieces of paper. And multiple autographs on one piece of paper is just as much of an autograph collection as multiple pieces of paper each containing one autograph.

 

If he has 4 pieces of paper containing 10 autographs each, his collection is best described as consisting of 40 autographs. Saying that his collection merely consists of 4 pieces of paper does not describe it in any meaningful way, no more than "a collection of hard drives, numbering four" meaningfully describes a collection of video games that happen to be stored on 4 hard drives.

[MaximRecoil]

I don't think things (mp3's, roms) that are downloaded are collections. If I download something on my computer I go to the website press download and than put in on my ipod or on a harddrive.My vinyl collection on the other hand I go out several times a week often traveling long distances to acquire more vinyl for my music collection. I pay money for it. I put it in a box and grade it. I put it on a shelf and take it off to listen to it and look at the art work. I research the vinyl online. I spend hours cleaning it. I buy expensive equipment to get the best sound possible.

What if someone inherited that "vinyl" collection from someone like you? Would it no longer be a collection because they didn't put any effort into obtaining it or pay any money for it?

[Manoau2002]

What if someone inherited that "vinyl" collection from someone like you? Would it no longer be a collection because they didn't put any effort into obtaining it or pay any money for it?

If they inherited the vinyl they would still do the other mentioned things. (that and moving a large vinyl collection from point a to b is a considerable amount of work as well)

[MaximRecoil]

If they inherited the vinyl they would still do the other mentioned things. (that and moving a large vinyl collection from point a to b is a considerable amount of work as well)

That doesn't answer the question, especially since both of your sentences fall into the "not necessarily" category.

[CatPix]

I think we are from a generation where nothing was "digital". We grown with vynils, cassette tapes, VHS (yuck) Laserdisc, and game carts. (Yes, even me. Back in 1995, the big thing in the school yard was the Super Nintendo. The Playstation craze started really in 1997/98).

 

So I admit, for me, a bunch of digital ROM doesn't feel like "a collection".

Yet...

What is a game anyway?

If you think about it, if we put aside Pong systems, and hybrids analog like the Interton Video 2000, games are based on a ROM that is read by a computer. Yeah, a specific ROM, by a specific computer. Still...

A ROM is nothing but a chip of non/hardly-reinscriptible memory. Which hold a file.

When you stick a multicart into your game system, for it, it's a legit game. It doesn't matter that it's a SD cart, or an EEPROM filled through a parallel or COM port.

 

The game IS a file.

In fact what we think about when we say "game" is more of the physical media holding it.

 

What would you think about someone keeping only dead, non working games? Is it a collection?

 

It's funny to see that if you look toward computer gamers, they aren't that touchy about games.

things like the SIO2 cards are common things. People rewriting erased floppies or tapes, or replacing their original floppy drive by a 3" 1/2 drive or a HDD drive. They don't care! And don't tell them they don't have a collection of games.

It's just that computer make you more aware of the fact that games, are just data files, not a physical thing.

[Andre81]

I don't want to deny that you can collect digital DLs as well, it is just a different kind of collection.

 

A digital collection can be copied and shared for free. A digital item is therefore by definition never rare. There is no such thing as a sealed or mint digital item.

 

I cannot predict the future, but I don't think there will be a market for digital PS4 games in 30 years. Therefore I think a collectors market will only exist for games from 1976-2016 and that will affect prices.

 

[Tjohoo!]

Anyway, I do hope that the prices on retro games will drop in the neat future.

I do not want to buy games and sell it for twice the price. NO!

 

I want to buy my games to my collection and also want to play them for my own pleasure, not making money on it!

But when the retro game market is what it is nowadays it's hard to collect because of the unrealistic high prices.

I mean...A CIB NES or SNES game for around $500??? Sick!

The prices here in Sweden is like that, but that is only because Scandinavia got their own releases but I still

can't get it. And that's why I collect NTSC games.

[Keatah]

I cannot predict the future, but I don't think there will be a market for digital PS4 games in 30 years. Therefore I think a collectors market will only exist for games from 1976-2016 and that will affect prices.

 

What about digital items for earlier PS and XBOX games? There will be a collectors market for those? I don't think so!

[Keatah]

I think thats flawed logic. Digital album releases are at an all time high yet used vinyl sales are over 2M a year. As long as video games are being played, they will be collected. Even w digial DLs you can get a HD filled w the games you want, put that HD in a cool case and slap some art on it.

 

Absolutely correct. I gussied up my emulation drive. Automotive paint. Clearcoat. Nice pinewood storage box. Logbook of drive maintenance such as SMART checks, refreshes, scans, backups.. The whole kit & kaboodle..

 

 

And I think your logic is flawed. Although more than ever digital DLs are being sold they have zero collectability.

 

You can download all the Atari 2600 or NES ROMs, but is this a collection? No, it isn't. A collection is something that is not readily available. Something you've built over the years, that is unique in the world.

 

In 15 years you can download all PS4 as a Torrent or whatever we use then. But that is no collection.

 

You can collect vinyl, but not MP3s.

 

Nonsense. By your logic there would be nothing unique about a complete collection of LYNX or INTELLIVISON. These can be had with little effort. They're a dime a dozen.

 

 

Do you know anyone w a couple Tera bites of storage? I know people who collect digital media. You saying someone can't collect mp3s is your opinion, because someone can and a lot of ppl do. My gfs brother in law has a collection of roms and he's always downloading more and weeding others out. Again your stance is very subjective to your own viewpoint. There are ppl on the digital side of the fence and consider themselves collectors of digital media.

 

Something like that. My emulation collection is unique, it is one of a kind. And it would become worth something if I became world famous. While it is chock-full of technical and historical material, I could only sell it for whatever a drive of its capacity goes for on the market. Likewise Kim Kardashian's panties are no more than fabric threads, but would sell for thousands on fleabay! It's all in the eye of the beholder.

 

 

Gf's brother in-law...

 

I probably have a similar set of roms & tunes, and it's just files on a hard drive, NOT a collection.

 

And so is shelf full of cartridges. They are just plastic shells with artwork & names stuck on them. The rom chips are simply clumps of silicon. There is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING unique about that. Nothing at all.

 

 

 

This isn't a discussion that's worth the hassle. There are too many people stuck with their antiquated views of what a collection is. The real problem is that people with physical collections tend to feel that their collections are somehow worth less if a digital set of files is also considered a collection. It's a silly argument, usually made by people who are either focused solely on the monetary value of their collection (I'd argue that's not a collection, but instead an investment) or those who's collections are valued based on what others think.

 

Does a digital collection have the same monetary value as a physical collection? Likely not. It can definitely have the same personal value to the person who has the collection. These two types of collections can co-exist, but you're not going to convert anyone at the moment. People fear change, especially when that change deals with something they are passionate about. It was easier trying to convince people the world is round.

 

 

 

No, that is not the definition of a collection. It is defined as the following:

 

: the act or process of getting things from different places and bringing them together

: a group of interesting or beautiful objects brought together in order to show or study them or as a hobby

: a request for money in order to help people or to pay for something important; also : the money collected in this way

 

This is what a collection is, as defined my Merriam Webster. There is nothing that requires a collection to be rare or unique in any way.

 

True enough. My collection of music, photos, and emulation material is valuable to me. It is my external memory. It is something I've worked on for over 40 years - since the day of the Apple I, and me being a toddler. Yup!

 

 

"a group of interesting or beautiful objects brought together in order to show or study them or as a hobby"

Sounds pretty similar to what Andre81 said.

 

A box with silicon in it is hardly beautiful. Especially when you can find them at the neighborhood junk store for $1.00. The essence of the bit pattern hosted by the box is the thing of beauty. It can be rare, or not.

 

 

 

Neither 'interesting' or 'beautiful' imply 'rare' or 'unique'. Also, interest and beauty is something that's purely subjective, while rarity and uniqueness is measurable.

 

Someone can easily have more interest in the content, rather than the distribution mechanism. If someone is interested in collecting games, but cart shells and optical media hold no interest, then a digital collection makes sense for that person. For someone else who values the distribution mechanism, the digital collection will hold little interest, but that doesn't mean the digital content is not a collection.

 

Yup. What if you replaced the silicon rom chips with a microdrive, or a different pattern of silicon - like SD flash? I wonder.. Would today's videogame collectors best be called distribution format collectors? What if you erased the EPROM in a cartridge?

 

 

Interesting does not mean unique, nor does the reverse stand true. It's very easy to come across interesting things which are in no way unique.

 

Regarding word utilization, if I continuously use the word 'fox' to describe a dog, that doesn't make it correct. Words can be misused and that's exactly what's happening here.

 

You apparently didn't read what I wrote, because it takes in to account what you posted. Just because something isn't of interest to you, and you wouldn't consider it a collection in your own possession, doesn't mean it isn't of interest and a collection to someone else.

 

I really don't understand why it bothers some people so much if others collect digital media. How exactly does it affect them in any way? Are they concerned that people won't be as impressed with your collection? If so, maybe they should stop worrying so much about what other people think and build a collection that's meaningful to them.

 

As I said above, this conversation isn't worth the hassle. I'm very comfortable with my various collections (both physical and digital), as they make me happy. What others have to say about it doesn't minimize my collections in any way.

 

That's right. From time to time I show guests my emulation collection. Before entering the space room I build up the history and legacy and all the the great times we had when I was a kid.

 

The most precarious and touch-n-go moment comes when I show them the STB and HDD. They're like WTF?? Incredulous at the diminutive appearance. Bear with me. Let's enjoy the games.. And I give them a rundown of all the systems. All the available games. All the technical material and manuals and scans. And what emulation is. Soon enough they're like a kid in a candy store. What else you got? You got this this or this? I can't believe it!!?!!??!

 

While inside is mostly cheap mini-ITX parts sourced from TigerDirect, ebay, Amazon, and NewEgg, the housing is something to behold. Iridium and Sapphire glass, Chromed Stainless Steel, custom pyramid HDD enclosure, the (industrial) Diamond-tipped screws holding it together. The maintenance and update log printed in Calligraphy.

 

An hour goes by and we're still playing and discussing. And soon enough they want to get a COLLECTION going too.

 

 

The definition does state "objects", specifically.

 

Four hard drives full of ROM dumps, movies, mp3s, other various data? That's a collection of hard drives, numbering four.

 

Respectfully. Incorrect. An emulation collection is a collection of metallic particles with X or Y orientation. Metallic particles = seems physical enough to me.

 

Again, by that logic, what would you do if your collection of cartridges was zeroed out by an EMP? Would you be as inclined to continue collecting them? Would you be able to sell them for the same price had they contained their original data? Seems like that would be a collection of shells and stickers, and not videogames.

 

 

No, it isn't a different use of the word "collection". It is a group of things sharing a common element, gathered together because they are of interest to someone.

 

If the game programs themselves can't form a collection, then they can't form part of a collection either, which means if someone were to erase all the game data on someone's collection of video games, then that wouldn't affect their collection at all.

 

A computer file on a hard drive is fundamentally no different than words on a paper. A hard drive uses platters instead of paper, and stores information using magnetic states instead of ink stains.

 

Someone who has a collection of celebrity autographs isn't considered to be a collector of ink-stained paper, he is a collector of autographs, which is the information conveyed by each of those ink-stained pieces of paper. And multiple autographs on one piece of paper is just as much of an autograph collection as multiple pieces of paper each containing one autograph.

 

If he has 4 pieces of paper containing 10 autographs each, his collection is best described as consisting of 40 autographs. Saying that his collection merely consists of 4 pieces of paper does not describe it in any meaningful way, no more than "a collection of hard drives, numbering four" meaningfully describes a collection of video games that happen to be stored on 4 hard drives.

 

Yes that's correct. So very correct!

 

HDD, SD-Flash, PROM, Masked Rom, DLC, Floppy.. and so on and so forth. Are simply distro methods. Modes of conveyance and delivery.

[7800fan]

Nonsense. By your logic there would be nothing unique about a complete collection of LYNX or INTELLIVISON. These can be had with little effort. They're a dime a dozen.

 

You haven't seen the price for a CIB Zaku or PIT? Hell someone on eBay wants $15,000 for a CIB Eye of the Beholder and afaik only 20 exists with box and all. But a complete Lynx collection limited to only commercial release will set you back a couple grands.

[Keatah]

Would those be asking prices? Or historical prices from actual buy/sell transactions?

[Rhomaios]

A box with silicon in it is hardly beautiful. Especially when you can find them at the neighborhood junk store for $1.00. The essence of the bit pattern hosted by the box is the thing of beauty. It can be rare, or not.

 

Well, interesting is another possibility in addition to beautiful. I don't know for what you're arguing, so I can't say anything more than that!

 

You haven't seen the price for a CIB Zaku or PIT? Hell someone on eBay wants $15,000 for a CIB Eye of the Beholder and afaik only 20 exists with box and all. But a complete Lynx collection limited to only commercial release will set you back a couple grands.

 

FWIW, and I'm really not arguing for one or another, I got my Zaku for $60 shipped just last November.

 

That said, it's not easier than acquiring a full set of SNES ROMs.

[Cobra Kai]

And so is shelf full of cartridges. They are just plastic shells with artwork & names stuck on them. The rom chips are simply clumps of silicon. There is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING unique about that. Nothing at all.

 

 

Ok, I get the abstract argument about technicalities concerning the word collection. Let's not pretend though that a hard drive full of roms is anywhere near the same thing as a shelf full of games. There is something unique about a physical collection of cartridges/discs. That uniqueness is that persons dedicated journey he/she took to make it that far to acquire, clean, and organize all that stuff. It's a story really of someones life in a way. For instance, I feel that I have a nice, well kept, large and varied video game collection. I have acquired it over the course of my life starting in the single digit years. I didn't just buy it all at once in 5 seconds, which is all the 'hard work' it would take to get all the roms onto my computer.

 

This holds true for physical collections of any kind. I respect a man's classic car collection, not a man's collection of classic car internet photographs.

Edited June 13, 2015 by Nuclear Pacman

[Keatah]

You cannot drive a collection of classic car photos. That's right. You CAN play a disk full of games. And in better form too. Some people have been collecting games on HDD for years and years. Organizing, curating, all that good stuff. It's a whole different thing. And not everyone understands it.

[omegadot]

I don't know why respect or difficulty in attainment would have anything to do with a bunch of artifacts being a collection other than how you feel about it. Frankly I have trouble even finding another word for it but I'm also used to using 'collections' in programming so my use of the word is pretty general. Sure, digital collections are different from physical because they are different things but that doesn't ban one from the collection party.

 

 

From my perspective, I don't have any respect or disrespect for someone car collection because I don't care about it at all. To me a car is meant to get me places and having numerous specific cars in a collection would be useless. My feelings don't change anything about the status of someone's stuff though.

 

Nears as I can tell it centers around: 'I don't like it.'

Edited June 13, 2015 by omegadot

[CatPix]

Ok, I get the abstract argument about technicalities concerning the word collection. Let's not pretend though that a hard drive full of roms is anywhere near the same thing as a shelf full of games. There is something unique about a physical collection of cartridges/discs. That uniqueness is that persons dedicated journey he/she took to make it that far to acquire, clean, and organize all that stuff. It's a story really of someones life in a way. For instance, I feel that I have a nice, well kept, large and varied video game collection. I have acquired it over the course of my life starting in the single digit years. I didn't just buy it all at once in 5 seconds, which is all the 'hard work' it would take to get all the roms onto my computer.

 

This holds true for physical collections of any kind. I respect a man's classic car collection, not a man's collection of classic car internet photographs.

All this babbling about what a collection is make you forget what is the colelction is about.

 

You mention classic cars (or any kind of car BTW). The car enthousiast have to get the real, physical car because it's a physical item. A car drive you to point A to point B. So it's a real world, physical experiment.

Video gaming is virtual (mostly, I wo'nt mention the driving seat simlator, infrared/light guns and the likes).

Therefore, IMO, the support, weither it's a floppy, a card, a memory card, an hard drive, a CD-ROM... doesn't change much about the finality : PLAYING.

 

The initial topic of the thread is "games are getting expensive". emulation, weither it's using a flash cart/multicard or going full emulation on a PC/Xbox/PSP/Dingoo, solve the monetary issue, as well as the rarity issue.

I am impressed with the dedicaced work of anyone that collected games.

But some colelctions, like shrinkwrapped collections, irks me the most. Because it's USELESS.

I mean if you like having a static bunch of boxes on a shelf, let the GAMERS get the carts and keep your useless boxes free dammit!

Don't worry, the people that collect cars and act like "noo I can't drive it, I already drove 12 km this years it's too much" FFS, give your car to a museum or burn it, because you're keeping it from the world to see!

 

Err. Might have gone berzek here.

My point is, we're on a gaming forum; whatever way you have your games, don't forget that it's meant to be played, not stored.

[Turbo-Torch]

The reality is that a rare Beatles album will always be worth mega bucks...MP3s off that album will always be worth zero.

All my 5¼" disks filled with games I downloaded off pirate BBSs back in the 80s barely have more value than the used disks themselves. Same goes for any games I download off the net and then transfer to my Atari with an sio2pc and copy to disk. One RARE boxed original game will be worth far more than all those disks combined. Someone can try and point out the flawed logic behind it and cry about how it shouldn't be that way, but that's the way it is and it will NEVER change.

Win/Win situation for collectors and gamers. Values stay high on the genuine articles and gamers can still experience the real thing on their real hardware.

 

Bottom of the barrel is emulation. A HD running on modern hardware ranks right up there with one of those all in one Jakks Pacific joysticks. Good for the non serious casual gamer and once bored or a new version comes along, toss it in the trash and move on.

[CatPix]

I'm glad to know that I'm a non serious casual gamer...

[Turbo-Torch]

I'm glad to know that I'm a non serious casual gamer...

 

And I'm glad you realize that. Now go babble on about something else.

[Keatah]

Emulation is top of the crop. You cannot beat the reliability, and versatility offered by such a method.

 

If paying high prices for insignificance is your thing, have at it!