The 32X - Would something like it work today?

[eightbit]

I recently acquired a 32X (actually two of them, one is up for sale because I need only one!) and while I know all too well the bad rap it has, I personally think it is pretty cool. I don't think I ever really gave it a chance, but after some time with it I have a different mindset on the unit. I have always been a fan of Space Harrier and Afterburner, and between those two games in arcade perfection, that would have personally sealed the deal for me. That is at the price point it is right now. But, I started playing some of the other games with a mindset of someone playing them new. Many are pretty outstanding. Virtua Racing is a blast. The tight control and smoothness of this game makes me keep wanting to come back. Virtua Fighter is great too. And, I do like Kolibri

 

I have read that people think that an add-on would never work again because of the 32X failure. I am not sure about that. Imagine a modern day add-on. Something you can buy for $150 (what this cost then) that would increase the actual performance of your console (ie: PS3, 360, Wii). As long as the games were there, I think it would sell. We all know we are in rough times now monetarily, and I think the mindset is different now. At least it is for me as a parent. I would much rather spend a lot less for an "upgrade" than buy a new system for my kids in this era.

 

More or less a 32X like add-on for modern consoles that was not abandoned, with games that took advantage it this add-on...and lots of them. Or everyone wants a flat out new console every few years as usual for an increasingly high price? Comments?

[OldSchoolRetroGamer]

But the problem with that is one of the things that killed the 32x in the first place. Fragmented Markets, traditionally because of this add-ons rarely are a success. Developers know with a console everyone has the same hardware, they do not want to be producing titles for the "have's" and the "have not's". Besides, if modern gaming devs are any indication they have enough trouble getting titles out the door that are all ready for prime time and not needing tons of patches and updates. For a long time now devs look towards the next generation of consoles and are busing supporting THAT, I don't think they want the added responsibility of supporting the last gen of consoles at the same time and I doubt the console manufacturers want them doing that either. And really, once the next gen of consoles comes out what could an add-on offer? Performance on par with the latest consoles? Not likely and gamers today would not likely settle for anything less. At least these are my opinions.

Edited December 17, 2013 by OldSchoolRetroGamer

[Keatah]

There'd be a lot more involved in increasing today's already-high-performance consoles. To get the performance increases one expects of add-on hardware, you'd practically have to redesign the console from the ground up. Either that, or produce all of the circuitry and capability of a new console into the add-on and just use the existing console as a pass-through device.

 

No. This would not work in today's environment. It barely worked in the past.

 

One other thing. It's always been easy to add functionality to a console/computer. You plug in new controllers, printers, disk drives, whatever! And you have new functionality! Just like that! But to gain speed, you need to tear into the guts and low-level stuff. This means redesign from the core on up.

[Atariboy]

I have read that people think that an add-on would never work again because of the 32X failure. I am not sure about that. Imagine a modern day add-on. Something you can buy for $150 (what this cost then) that would increase the actual performance of your console (ie: PS3, 360, Wii). As long as the games were there, I think it would sell.

While in full agreement with your assessment of the 32X, I don't agree with this.

 

These add-ons fragment the marketplace as said and between this and the Sega CD, the Genesis market was severely harmed. Genesis owners started to see a drought of new software, the add-ons were in competition with each other, and it allowed Nintendo to catch and surpass the Genesis at a time when the 16 bit market still had a lot of life left in it around 1994/1995 after being in 2nd place from day 1 thanks to its later launch and the popularity of Sega's platform until Sega got too clever for themselves. And it started Sega down the road to exiting the hardware business a few years later.

 

The only add-ons I can see working today are things like Microsoft's Kinect (As in on the 360 of course since Kinect is standard on the XB1), Nintendo's Game Boy Player, etc. Accessories that provide specialized uses rather than full fledged extensions of the base hardware to enhance the system's capabilities in general.

 

One thing I would like to see them try are backwards compatibility modules. For instance I'd love to be able to buy an external drive for the Wii U to provide GameCube compatibility with GCN controller and memory card ports and the expansion port so a Game Boy Player could be attached to it (And the option to also use Wii U gamepads, virtual memory cards, and a Game Boy Player startup app would be nice).

Edited December 17, 2013 by Atariboy

[Falconhood]

I like my 32X too, but those little metal things were annoying, and my system was the X-EYE, so if the 32X was on top, I couldn't open the door to the CD player on it....so the unit was not universal with all official systems. I don't know what everyone's problem was with it, either, I grew-up with add-ons with my Colecovision's Atari Adapter, Intellivision Voice Adapter, and my Sega Genesis Master System Converter.

 

But, I think it would have been better to just make a COMPLETE system out of it, and anything like this in the future, due to the extra power adapter.

 

The only thing since then I can think of are the Nintendo 64 ROM pack, and other things that plug-in to the system, but don't have a cartridge pass through (obviously because all games are optic discs since then).

Edited December 17, 2013 by Falconhood

[Algus]

We can already upgrade the HDD and I could see user accessible RAM being a thing (worked with the N64...for like 2 games) but I doubt you'll see a module that will add additional cpu or gpu power.

 

I rather fancy the idea of a BC module though. It'd be nice to see that.

[+Cafeman]

I agree that market fragmentation is the problem and it would be even harder to get to work today.

 

But I like the 32X, in fact for the past few weeks I've been playing Genesis and 32X games a lot. I used to own more 32X games than I do now, and I'm too cheap to repurchase them, so the only really fun games I have are Virtua Racing Deluxe, Afterburner, Star Wars Arcade, Fred Couples 36 Holes Golf, and sometimes I'll play a few rounds of Virtua Fighting even though it isn't as good as the Saturn versions.

 

Someday I'll save my pennies and repurchase Knuckles Chaotix; and purchase for 1st time Kolibri / Shadow Squadron/ Zaxxon motherbase. If the Everdrive works with 32X, maybe I should just go that route.

[Hatta]

All the 32X did was increase the color depth the genesis could display. Color depth isn't a limiting factor for graphics anymore, so no that wouldn't work.

 

What could conceivably work is supporting SLI in a console. PC gamers can add an extra GPU, if their motherboard supports it, and render more polygons and textures. There's no theoretical reason this couldn't be done in a modern console, and it would help extend the console generation.

[Hatta]

For instance I'd love to be able to buy an external drive for the Wii U to provide GameCube compatibility with GCN controller and memory card ports and the expansion port so a Game Boy Player could be attached to it

Oh, you can do that. You don't even need the Wii U.

[mbd30]

Current generation consoles already perform so well that there is no point. The 32x was "needed" back in the day in order to keep a technologically outmoded console competitive against 32-bit hardware.

[Keatah]

What could conceivably work is supporting SLI in a console. PC gamers can add an extra GPU, if their motherboard supports it, and render more polygons and textures. There's no theoretical reason this couldn't be done in a modern console, and it would help extend the console generation.

 

Never work. Way to costly. Extra materials, extra shipping weight, socket, heatsink, memory, beefier power supply.. By the time the 2nd sli'd gpu is genuinely needed the next generation cpu/gpu/bus/memory will be out.

[mbd30]

...

Edited December 17, 2013 by mbd30

[Atariboy]

Oh, you can do that. You don't even need the Wii U.

The point of it with the Wii U would be an all in 1 solution for Nintendo's optical media based consoles.

 

And thanks to its ability to upscale Wii mode better than most HDTV or AV receiver scaling chips ever could and select the proper aspect ratio automatically for you for 4:3 and 16:9 Wii software, I think it's particularly a shame that there isn't an official way to play GCN discs on it as well.

Edited December 17, 2013 by Atariboy

[Hatta]

At what point is a console not a console anymore, but just a glorified PC that you hook up to your TV set?

If it doesn't come with a compiler, it's not a real computer.

Edited December 17, 2013 by Hatta

[108 Stars]

All the 32X did was increase the color depth the genesis could display.

Where did you read that? That's not true at all. While the color depth was a factor, the major factor of the system was the two 32-Bit-RISC CPUs in it, smaller brothers of the ones found in the Saturn and each one outperforming the Genesis' own CPU by far. These and the new GPU allowed for much better scaling and rotation effects and fast polygon graphics with texture mapping.

 

Sure, many games did not make much use of it but when you look at games like Darxide, Stellar Assault, Virtua Fighter, Metal Head, Space Harrier or Afterburner it is easy to see that the colors were really the least important aspect of the added power.

 

 

Also, the 32X could have succeeded even back then. It sold very well initially. The problem was limited supply, and the fact that Sega themselves did not commit to the system, especially the Japanese branch wanted the 32X gone and focus on Saturn. With Sega themselves not supporting it well, 3rd party developers dropped out before long, and after the strong first Christmas the software support dwindled.

 

Today I think in general people are even more open to invest in their systems. Just look at all the people who regularly upgrade their handhelds to the newer model, most of the time spending money for aesthetic reasons only. The willingness is definitely there. The issue I would see today is that the graphics have advanced so far it is hard to create an add-on that significantly boosts performance at a price point where people would buy instead of just wanting a new system altogether. One major factor of the longevity of PS3 and Xbox 360 has been the fact that the average user couldn't tell that much of a difference between the consoles and visuals on modern PCs. The more the difference is in the detail, the less likely people will be wowed enough to spend cash on it.

[eightbit]

I agree that market fragmentation is the problem and it would be even harder to get to work today.

 

But I like the 32X, in fact for the past few weeks I've been playing Genesis and 32X games a lot. I used to own more 32X games than I do now, and I'm too cheap to repurchase them, so the only really fun games I have are Virtua Racing Deluxe, Afterburner, Star Wars Arcade, Fred Couples 36 Holes Golf, and sometimes I'll play a few rounds of Virtua Fighting even though it isn't as good as the Saturn versions.

 

Someday I'll save my pennies and repurchase Knuckles Chaotix; and purchase for 1st time Kolibri / Shadow Squadron/ Zaxxon motherbase. If the Everdrive works with 32X, maybe I should just go that route.

 

 

The Everdrive does indeed work with the 32X, for all of the games This is how I am playing it. But, SMS games do not work on the Everdrive when connected into the 32X, so you would have to remove it to play these titles.

[Austin]

Kinect was an add-on that sold for $150 and performed well in the marketplace. It didn't add any extra power or anything as far as I am aware, but imagine if it did. That could very well have been an add-on that would have fit your question.

 

I think theoretically an add-on could work if the system was popular enough and the idea was good enough, but with the visual quality modern platforms already have, I don't think an add-on (in the way that you are implying) would ever be needed. Systems these days are rather limitless when you compare them to consoles of old.

[ComputerSpaceFan]

Love the 32X but totally agree about the fragmented market that would occur if someone tried it again today.

 

Just look at the lack-luster support for Wii Motion Plus. Probably the best modern equivalent.

[Algus]

Fwiw the 32X version of Night Trap is a grand upgrade over the Sega CD version. The fully upgraded Genesis was never exploited to its full glory which was a shame. CD audio and the 32X's improved performance could have been the recipe for some grand RPGs.

 

It's to bad they couldn't find a way to match this add - on tech to the Saturn. Buy a Saturn new or upgrade your Genesis and get full BC. Oh well.

 

Don't know the specs but am assuming the Saturn has a better drive than the Sega CD so there's that too.

[LynxVGL]

I also love my 32X. There definitely are title in the library that show the potential of the system, and the above mentioned market fragmentation that Sega seemed deeply in love with before '95 was the systems downfall. Remember that before the Saturn launched, Sega had plans for Mars, and Neptune too. (All in one Genesis/SCD and all in one Genesis/SCD/32X units) If Sega of America had gone on with this plan, they probably would never have survived to launch Dreamcast.

 

It goes back to developers the gamble they have to take on which platform to develop for. Both the SCD and the 32X show that developers in the early 90's were perplexed and wouldn't commit to fully develop for the Sega Add ons, and with todays development costs, there is even less of a chance of this happening.

 

Some are saying that the Xbox One and the PS4 may be the last Consoles (as we know them) to be unleashed on the public. Time will tell. The Kinect and the Wii Balance Board are the best examples of Add-on success (and Failure if you take in account the Playstation Eye) for the current gen.

[mos6507]

"Some are saying that the Xbox One and the PS4 may be the last Consoles (as we know them) to be unleashed on the public. "

 

I think it is. Consoles have become more like PCs and PCs themselves are threatened by tablets and smart-phones which are in turn more like consoles. So everything is converging towards a middle-point of appliance-like closed-computing where you download your apps from the web. I see physical media going away just as it's already pretty much gone with music and in the process of going away with movies (other than big budget blu-rays that benefit from the high bitrate storage).

[Austin]

Just look at the lack-luster support for Wii Motion Plus. Probably the best modern equivalent.

 

What was so lackluster about it? It's the standard WiiMote now.

[Rex Dart]

 

What was so lackluster about it? It's the standard WiiMote now.

 

Well, "now" is a generation late. Few games supported it in the lifetime of the console it was intended for.

[+FujiSkunk]

Short answer: no. See: HD-DVD add-on for the XBox 360.

 

(Yes, I know, no games were intended to use it, but that very well could have been on the drawing board in case it gained wider acceptance.)

[Atariboy]

Well, "now" is a generation late. Few games supported it in the lifetime of the console it was intended for.

Few support it even now, a testament on what happens to an accessory not bundled with the system. Probably greater than 95% of the Wii U time that has been logged with Motion Plus Wii remotes have been in backwards compatibility or asymmetrical multiplayer to fill a roster out with.

 

They finally created a Wiimote that could live up to what everyone visualized back in 2006 yet it's largely ignored on the Wii U today since nobody wants to take the chance on a Wii U project tailored around Motion Plus even when millions of people already own it thanks largely to a single 1st party game that bucked the trend on the Wii and sold in large amounts.

 

There's a lot of value to a developer and publisher in knowing that every owner of a console you're targeting has on hand what's necessary to enjoy your project.

Edited December 18, 2013 by Atariboy