8-bit misconceptions -- a little rant

[jhd]

Did any Pong systems actually use a CPU, or were they just based on discrete logic and/or dedicated chips.

[jaybird3rd]

Did any Pong systems actually use a CPU, or were they just based on discrete logic and/or dedicated chips.

I believe the consumer Pongs were all dedicated chips. Some manufacturers (like Atari) developed their own chips, while others used off-the-shelf game chips like the AY-3-8500. That's why many of the off-brand dedicated consoles had exactly the same gameplay: the cases and controllers may have been different, but they were all using the same parts inside.

[CatPix]

The Pizon-Bros Visiomatic 101 use a different chip (according to one engineer, they started working on is as early as 1973!) than the usual General instruments.

The game use a Robot fonction, but I can't tell is such a function can or can't be achieved by using discrete component of if you need some kind of calculator.

[Reaperman]

If we're just assigning randomly low 'bit-ness' values to systems we don't like, I suggest dropping anything resembling a real number and substituting random derogatory words/phrases in there instead.

 

For example, I consider one certain Atari as the first I-Don't-Give-A-Flying-Fudge-It's-Still-Godawful-bit system.

People still know what I'm talking about and there's no risk of being singled out for any form of scientific inaccuracy.

Edited December 31, 2013 by Reaperman

[high voltage]

Atari never had any godawful-bit-systems, they're all great, but mind you it was very close, they almost distributed the NES in USA.

Edited December 31, 2013 by high voltage

[ApolloBoy]

Common Sense instead of "Political Correctness"

What in the fuck

[Kyle22]

Political correctness meaning only knowing what "they" want you to know. For example, my xbox360 uses a triple core xenon-Waternoose 64 bit PowerPC chip (that runs too hot and red-rings the piece of junk just after the warranty runs out.)

 

I can't imagine NOT wanting to know what's inside something. I can also not imagine anyone believing or (worse yet) repeating word of mouth information that they haven't fact-checked. The last time I checked, the 4-bit cpu was mostly used in hand held calculators starting in the 1970s.

 

It is a matter of fact that the 2600 uses an 8-bit 6507 chip. How utterly stupid must a person be to call it a 4-bit?

 

It's such a shame to see the downward spiral of our society...

[BillyHW]

Atari never had any godawful-bit-systems, they're all great, but mind you it was very close, they almost distributed the NES in USA.

 

Thank goodness they never had a chance to screw that up, too.

[Keatah]

Nobody could possibly have been as stupid as me. I used to go around saying my Apple had real bytes and that bits were for toy systems like the VCS or Pong/Hockey/Soccer combo stuff.

 

 

Doesn't anyone understand how a CPU works anymore?

 

Nope. It isn't necessary anymore. One could argue that it wasn't necessary BITD either, but your enjoyment and usability of the system shot up if you did. Exponentially no doubt! My gramma even understood CPU's and systems on a block diagram level.

[JamesD]

Nobody could possibly have been as stupid as me. I used to go around saying my Apple had real bytes and that bits were for toy systems like the VCS or Pong/Hockey/Soccer combo stuff.

LOL, at least it was when you were young and computer info wasn't so common.

[gamecat80]

 

 

It is a matter of fact that the 2600 uses an 8-bit 6507 chip. How utterly stupid must a person be to call it a 4-bit?

 

It's such a shame to see the downward spiral of our society...

 

Well said! With the easily available info out now there is no excuse to just blindly (and incorrectly) label a system "4-bit" just because it is more primitive than the NES. Luckily, other gamers correct those ignorant remarks.

 

 

I group the 8-bit systems like this:

 

 

Early 8-bit: Channel F, Atari VCS, Odyssey 2

Mid 8-bit: ColecoVision, Atari 5200, Arcadia 2001

Late 8-bit: Atari 7800, NES, SMS

 

 

All the above use 8-bit CPUs. The late 8-bit systems were obviously more advanced than earlier systems, but should not define "everything 8-bit". So it seems to me that some ppl use the NES or SMS to "define 8-bit", which was really only a small part of all 8-bit systems.

[Kyle22]

I agree.

[godslabrat]

The initial mistake was allowing the "bitness" of a system to be used as an objective metric of performance, rather than a descriptive term to describe the CPU. Terms such as "4-bit" were symptoms of this problem.

[Eltigro]

I think I've figured it out:

 

Sega Dreamcast = 128-bit

 

Atari Jaguar and N64 = 64-bit

 

Sega Saturn and Sony Playstation = 32-bit

 

Neo Geo = 24-bit

 

Genesis, SNES, Amiga, ST = 16-bit

 

TG16, Lynx = (8-bit CPU + 16-bit Graphics)/2 = 12-bit

 

NES, SMS = 8-bit

 

Colecovision, 5200, C64 = 4-bit

 

Intellivision = 3-bit

 

Atari 2600 = 2-bit

 

CPU-based Pongs/Odysseys = 1-bit

 

Pre-CPU games (Indy 800 etc.) = 0-bit

 

What about the pinball and electro-mechanical games? Are those negative bits? lol

[CatPix]

Nobody could possibly have been as stupid as me. I used to go around saying my Apple had real bytes and that bits were for toy systems like the VCS or Pong/Hockey/Soccer combo stuff.

 

Well... you weren't totally wrong, either.

 

Computer world usually more use the byte as "main unit" whereas consoles use the bit.

Storage is counted in bytes : floppies, hard drives, CD, DVD, etc... RAM is counter in bytes. In fact only data is counted in bits!

 

On console, everyone was "cheating".

Why are all Master Systems carts called "Mega cartridge"? Why, they have one Mb of storage! One MegaBYTE?...

Well, nope. One Mega BIT, so "only" 128 bytes. (I suppose that later carts have more than 128 bytes).

Even the Neo Geo is guilty of that. Have you even seen the "330 Mega" logo? Well it's "only" 41Megabytes (in the carts). Which was still ginormous for a time where a 80 MB HDD was still a common thing. And it was the maximum capacity of the system, not the real cart size.

Tho later carts, and multicarts obviously, break this limit and there is Neo Geo carts holding more than 330Megabits od storage.

 

The confusion is more easily spotted in France and other countries using the "octet" instead of "byte". (So we write a CD capacity as being 800Mo. No confusion possible).

[+wood_jl]

I think I've figured it out:

 

Sega Dreamcast = 128-bit

 

Atari Jaguar and N64 = 64-bit

 

Sega Saturn and Sony Playstation = 32-bit

 

Neo Geo = 24-bit

 

Genesis, SNES, Amiga, ST = 16-bit

 

TG16, Lynx = (8-bit CPU + 16-bit Graphics)/2 = 12-bit

 

NES, SMS = 8-bit

 

Colecovision, 5200, C64 = 4-bit

 

Intellivision = 3-bit

 

Atari 2600 = 2-bit

 

CPU-based Pongs/Odysseys = 1-bit

 

Pre-CPU games (Indy 800 etc.) = 0-bit

That's one of the funniest posts I've ever seen here. :lol: Thanks for the chuckle!

 

[Classic Pac]

The one thing today's gamers at least I always hear them say that retro games just aren't any good.

[Keatah]

The one thing today's gamers at least I always hear them say that retro games just aren't any good.

 

I could write 10 paragraphs on that comment. But suffice it to say they are unaware spoiled bastard children growing up in rich neighborhoods. They won't appreciate stuff much later in life. They're the same kids (for real!) that say going to Disney World to swim with the Dolphins is so-yesterday and boooooorrrriiinnnnngg! awwww we did that 5 years ago!!!

[Keatah]

It is a matter of fact that the 2600 uses an 8-bit 6507 chip. How utterly stupid must a person be to call it a 4-bit. It's such a shame to see the downward spiral of our society...

 

One needs to ask how important that sliver of information is to the success and evolution of society as a whole. I could go to the mall, interview 1,000 people asking them about the "bitness" of the VCS, and I promise you not one single one of them would give a rat's ass. I bet I'd be hauled away by security soon enough!

Edited January 3, 2014 by Keatah

[Kyle22]

I may have used an extreme example, but, I have a hard time with today's kids that don't even make an attempt to seek the truth. No one is inquisitive anymore.

It is a lack of proper education. A high school graduate these days couldn't pass an 8th grade test from years ago. It just seems like nobody even cares about the details anymore.

[Rex Dart]

I may have used an extreme example, but, I have a hard time with today's kids that don't even make an attempt to seek the truth. No one is inquisitive anymore.

It is a lack of proper education. A high school graduate these days couldn't pass an 8th grade test from years ago. It just seems like nobody even cares about the details anymore.

 

I think it's because 'the truth' is just a google search away. Similar to how teachers always insisted on doing math the hard way, because "you might not always have a calculator". Now it applies to general knowledge, as we have pocket devices for that too (not just math).

 

Oh well.

 

 

What about the pinball and electro-mechanical games? Are those negative bits? lol

 

Well, considering a bit is 1/8 of a dollar, I guess a game of pinball works out to between two and eight bits in most arcades.

Edited January 3, 2014 by Rex Dart

[Keatah]

0-bit analog computers. The main moving object in a pinball game is essentially 1 pixel sized.

[Jess Ragan]

I have actually seen handheld games advertised with a "powerful 4-bit processor." When I saw that on the side of a Ms. Pac-Man LCD game, I about laughed myself to death.

 

Anyway, the misconception that pre-crash game systems are 4-bit is a common and unfortunate one. I suppose people just saw what the NES was capable of doing, noticed that earlier systems were a step back in many respects, and came to what they thought was the most logical conclusion. As was surely already pointed out in this thread, the number of bits a machine's data bus can handle is only one factor in a game system's performance. Take for instance the Neo-Geo Pocket Color... technically it's a 16-bit machine, but its sound chip and the number of colors in its sprites strongly suggest otherwise. The Turbografx-16, on the other hand, has an 8-bit data bus but graphics more reminiscent of 16-bit systems.

 

Bits were a valuable yardstick in measuring the capabilities of a game system back in the 1980s and 1990s, but now not so much. I believe today's multi-core computers are just 64-bit, despite the fact that they're many times more powerful than early 64-bit systems like the Jaguar and N64.

[Kyle22]

What would the "low information" generation think is inside an Atari8 with VBXE? Here's the test:

 

Release a YouTube video of a new, and TOTALLY UNSEEN VBXE game. It should be a VERY GOOD one that takes full advantage of graphics and sound. VBXE, SIDPlayer, TriTone GTIA, etc. Every little tweak possible. Use up to 1MB (Incognito and U1MB).

 

Offer an un-specified reward to the person who comments CORRECTLY on what it runs on, and how many bits. Throw out all OBVIOUS Un-Educated Guessers by making everyone describe in detail why they made their choice

 

Do NOT mention AtariAge until AFTER the winner is chosen, and multiple people have said 16 bit, then, constantly refer to AA.

 

The reward can simply be to send them a disk of the game.

 

The YouTube comments will tell the tale, plus this is a challenge for the really great programmers to make a new, mind-blowing game

Edited January 4, 2014 by Kyle22

[Keatah]

It is the stupid generation that thinks pre-nes is 4-bit. The generation I come from, the smart generation, and generations before it, are simply smarter.