Chug Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Sorry if this has been covered before. What hard drives can I use with my 800xl? I remember the Supra being advertised back in the day, but I can't find any for sale. Is there any way on using a modern HDD with my elderly machine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atari8warez Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Sorry if this has been covered before. What hard drives can I use with my 800xl? I remember the Supra being advertised back in the day, but I can't find any for sale. Is there any way on using a modern HDD with my elderly machine? A PBI connected flash memory device like SIDE2, IDE Plus2 or MyIDE2 would a better alternative to modern hard drives unless of course you prefer mechanical disks over memory cards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chug Posted January 16, 2014 Author Share Posted January 16, 2014 A PBI connected flash memory device like SIDE2, IDE Plus2 or MyIDE2 would a better alternative to modern hard drives unless of course you prefer mechanical disks over memory cards. I hadn't thought about one of those, just shows how long I've been out of the Atari scene. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russg Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 (edited) Sorry if this has been covered before. What hard drives can I use with my 800xl? I remember the Supra being advertised back in the day, but I can't find any for sale. Is there any way on using a modern HDD with my elderly machine? No, I don't think so. Today is SATA or PATA. The modern A8 mass data device uses SD or CF memory, in gigabytes. Old timey hard drives were IDE/SCSI and required a PBI device, MIO or Black Box. Those old devices are limited to 16 megs per partition I think. Edited January 16, 2014 by russg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 A PBI connected flash memory device like SIDE2, IDE Plus2 or MyIDE2 would a better alternative to modern hard drives unless of course you prefer mechanical disks over memory cards. I hadn't thought about one of those, just shows how long I've been out of the Atari scene. It's perfectly possible to use a "modern day" IDE hard drive with the IDE Plus 2.0 interface, if you can get hold of one. AFAIK, older interfaces such as MIO and Black Box required SCSI drives, which are still available (the most difficult part there will be getting hold of an MIO or BB). SIDE and MyIDE2 aren't PBI devices - they're cartridges, although SIDE can be made functionally equivalent to a "proper" PBI hard disk interface if you also have an Ultimate 1MB upgrade installed. SIDE and MyIDE2 both work with compact flash cards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atari8warez Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 (edited) It's perfectly possible to use a "modern day" IDE hard drive with the IDE Plus 2.0 interface, if you can get hold of one. AFAIK, older interfaces such as MIO and Black Box required SCSI drives, which are still available (the most difficult part there will be getting hold of an MIO or BB). SIDE and MyIDE2 aren't PBI devices - they're cartridges, although SIDE can be made functionally equivalent to a "proper" PBI hard disk interface if you also have an Ultimate 1MB upgrade installed. SIDE and MyIDE2 both work with compact flash cards. Modern day hard drives to me are SATA drives but of course everybody may have a different understanding of "modern" , (Wikipedia defines modern as "of or relating to the present or recent times") also given that the PBI port on an XE is called an ECI (Enhanced Cartridge Interface) and that the cartridge port is parallel in nature (as opposed to serial like SIO), calling those cartridge devices PBI devices isn't totally way out of line unless of course you want to split hairs with technical details. Edited January 16, 2014 by atari8warez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 (edited) Modern day hard drives to me are SATA drives but of course everybody may have a different understanding of "modern" , (Wikipedia defines modern as "of or relating to the present or recent times") also given that the PBI port on an XE is called an ECI (Enhanced Cartridge Interface) and that the cartridge port is parallel in nature (as opposed to serial like SIO), calling those cartridge devices PBI devices isn't totally way out of line unless of course you want to split hairs with technical details. I know what modern means, and I don't need to be referred to a Wikipedia definition, thanks. Though succeeded by SATA, IDE devices are somewhat more "current" than the ancient, clunking HDDs which were contemporary with the A8, and IDE HDDs are still available to buy at my local computer store. I'll concede, however, that the definition of "Modern HDD" might be open to interpretation, and sure - the OP may have had SATA in mind. However, since you evidently want to split hairs, calling a SIDE2 and (particularly) a MyIDE2 a "PBI connected flash memory device" is plain inaccurate, since it might lead the OP to expect that SIDE2 or MyIDE2 connect to the 50 way PBI connector on the back of an XL, as does the IDE Plus 2.0, and also that those devices will function - unaided - as PBI hard disk interfaces, fully compliant with the Atari's parallel device specification, and not requiring additional drivers or custom operating systems (carrying, as they then would, a PBI ROM which banks in under the FP package at $D800). However, neither SIDE2 nor MyIDE2 possess these facilities. Similarly, the fact that SIDE2 and MyIDE2 connect to the ECI port on an XE machine makes them no different to any other cartridge that you might plug into an XE, in as much as they plug into the cartridge port, and do not fully occupy the ECI port. This is because they are cartridges, and not ECI hard disk interfaces. Now, the foregoing was really unnecessary, since I really wasn't trying to split hairs, and I really just wanted to offer a couple of extra subjective alternatives to the OP, as well as clarifying the misinformation regarding PBI interfaces discussed above. My quoting of your post was not divisive, nor in any way intended to belittle the approximated technical information you had already offered. Nevertheless, in a short space of time the usual hair-trigger reaction was in evidence when you turned up to a) explain to me what the word "modern" means, and b) suggest that I'm being pedantic in asserting that SIDE2 and MyIDE2 are not PBI/ECI peripherals. I don't think the technical distinction between SATA and IDE is any more or less significant than the distinction between the 30-way cartridge connector and the 50-way PBI and 44-way ECI connectors, so you can't really split hairs on one without doing the same to the other. Edited January 16, 2014 by flashjazzcat 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chug Posted January 16, 2014 Author Share Posted January 16, 2014 No, I don't think so. Today is SATA or PATA. The modern A8 mass data device uses SD or CF memory, in gigabytes. Old timey hard drives were IDE/SCSI and required a PBI device, MIO or Black Box. Those old devices are limited to 16 megs per partition I think. What kind of SD storage devices are available for the A8? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle22 Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 (edited) If you want to use a PBI controller to connect a "modern" SATA drive to an IDE (PATA) interface, use this: http://www.amazon.com/Parallel-DVD-ROM-Interface-Convert-Adapter/dp/B003AG79GO/ref=pd_cp_pc_3 The IDE Plus 2 should work: http://www.realdos.net/IDE%20Plus%202.0%20D.html You will probably need a ribbon cable between the IDE Plus 2 and the adapter. Now, having said that, here's what I would do: No offense to PBI devices, but I don't like all that stuff hanging off of the back. It makes the system less portable, and is prone to movement / vibration induced lock up because of all the connections. The SIDE2 cart would be a much simpler and compact solution. It is available here: http://www.lotharek.pl/product.php?pid=68 It is especially useful if you have the Ultimate 1M upgrade installed. Available here: http://www.lotharek.pl/product.php?pid=67 I have an Incognito (which is equivalent to SIDE2 and U1M combined) in my 800 (not XL) with a 1GB CF card in it, and it performs flawlessly. -K Edited January 16, 2014 by Kyle22 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillC Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 It's perfectly possible to use a "modern day" IDE hard drive with the IDE Plus 2.0 interface, if you can get hold of one. AFAIK, older interfaces such as MIO and Black Box required SCSI drives, which are still available (the most difficult part there will be getting hold of an MIO or BB). SIDE and MyIDE2 aren't PBI devices - they're cartridges, although SIDE can be made functionally equivalent to a "proper" PBI hard disk interface if you also have an Ultimate 1MB upgrade installed. SIDE and MyIDE2 both work with compact flash cards. Reproductions of the MIO(with some improvements) are available from MEtalGuy66, his website is http://www.rasterline.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Larry Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 If you want a PBI device for the XL/XE series you can do no better than the IDE+2. Contact "Simius" here at AA if interested. Will accept 44-pin IDE laptop drives or other storage devices with the proper adapter. MIO's are probably still available, but by the time you get all the required pieces, you are likely looking at $400 or more. But they have some unique features as an offset to the cost. For many folks, the MyIDE-II or SIDE works well. They are very portable between computers. Atarimax sells MyIDE-II and Lotharek sells SIDE2. The Internal MyIDE has the advantage that it does not use the cartridge port, so it is available for language or game carts. May or may not still be available. Look at Atarimax.com for more info. Others can fill you in on SD devices. They are SIO "serial port" with (IMO) poor user interfaces, and (compared to the above) are quite slow. Still, lots of folks like them. Finally, if you have a PC or laptop to use with the Atari, an APE or AspeQt interface is really handy. These are also SIO, but your PC provides a nice Windows interface. Long story short -- lots of choices. -Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russg Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 What kind of SD storage devices are available for the A8? I wish someone else would answer this. Lotharek, Poland, sells SIO2SD and SIDEII devices. I don't think Atarimax sells SD device. So, the only SD devices I know are from Lotharek, but I may be leaving out somebody. The SD devices, I think, require special DOS, or maybe even a special OS. I realize that accessing over 16 megs of 256 byte sectors requires some bit twiddling. These SD devices are formatted on a PC with FAT 16, 32. I'm sorta lost here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sikor Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 (edited) The SD devices, I think, require special DOS, or maybe even a special OS. No, not requires. I use SIO2SD from years (old version) and it works fine. Format FAT16 and ATRs or xex files to SD card to Atari folder, put it on SIO2SD and use as normal Disk Drive. Edited January 16, 2014 by Sikor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russg Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 I wish someone else would answer this. Lotharek, Poland, sells SIO2SD and SIDEII devices. I don't think Atarimax sells SD device. So, the only SD devices I know are from Lotharek, but I may be leaving out somebody. The SD devices, I think, require special DOS, or maybe even a special OS. I realize that accessing over 16 megs of 256 byte sectors requires some bit twiddling. These SD devices are formatted on a PC with FAT 16, 32. I'm sorta lost here. OK, no special OS. Comes with SpartaX 4.4x. Isn't a SD card, is a compact flash card. And AtariMax (S. Tucker) sells MyIDEII compact flash cart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chug Posted January 16, 2014 Author Share Posted January 16, 2014 If you want to use a PBI controller to connect a "modern" SATA drive to an IDE (PATA) interface, use this: http://www.amazon.com/Parallel-DVD-ROM-Interface-Convert-Adapter/dp/B003AG79GO/ref=pd_cp_pc_3 The IDE Plus 2 should work: http://www.realdos.net/IDE%20Plus%202.0%20D.html You will probably need a ribbon cable between the IDE Plus 2 and the adapter. Now, having said that, here's what I would do: No offense to PBI devices, but I don't like all that stuff hanging off of the back. It makes the system less portable, and is prone to movement / vibration induced lock up because of all the connections. The SIDE2 cart would be a much simpler and compact solution. It is available here: http://www.lotharek.pl/product.php?pid=68 It is especially useful if you have the Ultimate 1M upgrade installed. Available here: http://www.lotharek.pl/product.php?pid=67 I have an Incognito (which is equivalent to SIDE2 and U1M combined) in my 800 (not XL) with a 1GB CF card in it, and it performs flawlessly. -K The SIDE2 looks ideal. I think I know what my next purchase will be. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Westphal Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 I have the MYIDEII. I have it set up with the fat32 partition. I run all .xex files, and some .rom's work too. In my current configuration I cant run .atr's. It IS a solid product. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russg Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 No, not requires. I use SIO2SD from years (old version) and it works fine. Format FAT16 and ATRs or xex files to SD card to Atari folder, put it on SIO2SD and use as normal Disk Drive. Doesn't require special OS? It has a special DOS, SpX 4.4x doesn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle22 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 SIO devices will work at 19.2K (standard) speed with any DOS. Certain DOSs such as Sparta, and others will switch into UltraSpeed (50+K) mode. If you want to go fast with any DOS, then you can use a custom OS, but none of the above is a requirement. The SIO2SD and similar devices will perform just like an 810, 1050, or any other drive for DOSs and programs that don't understand UltraSpeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fibrewire Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 My vote is for a Side2 + U1MB (thanks Candle!) for a 1200xl. Everyone already knows my choice of hard drive for the Atari 800 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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