Sick of Japanese RPG's

[Ze_ro]

I'm probably going to get murdered in my sleep for saying this, but I'm mighty sick of Japanese RPG's.

 

You know the type I'm talking about. Chrono Trigger, Golden Sun, Final Fantasy... I'm sick of them all. Granted, I haven't played them too much, but I don't see a lot of point in that, since they're all pretty much the same. The story never makes much sense, and the parts of it that do are the same from game to game (great evil that's threatening the world, your initially wimpy character the only one that can stop it, blah, blah, blah). The characters are always pretty much the same, the women are deformed Japanese Eye-monsters that barely look human anymore... the male lead is always spaced out and indecisive (Which leads to many conversations that go like this: Male: ".......", Female: "..........."), and there's always some dorky character that's amazing with machines somehow.

 

Now, I've played a number of these kinds of games lately, and I often get decently well into them before realizing just how big a mistake I've made. I played Grandia II for the Dreamcast until I almost got to the end (at least I think)... Valmar's moon was about to crash into the planet thanks to the help of the pope or bishop or pope-bishop, or whatever his name was (remember what I said about non-sensical plots?). At this point, I made it to the map screen, which naturally limited me to only a few places that I could go, despite the fact that I'd seen about 3 dozen different places already. The place I chose ended up being a "safe zone", for whatever reason. I figured that was game-speak for "Make sure your characters are good, cuz they're about to get their asses kicked", so I walked around and levelled my characters a bit (which is something I really hate doing in RPG's, but I figured if I'd gotten this far, I'd go all the way). Eventually, I got so far into the zone that I couldn't find my way back, and I stumbled across some castle ruins with enemies and a bunch of tasty looking chests in it (y'know, because every item, even if it's just a simple potion, HAS to be in a chest), so I decided to brave the enemies. Now keep in mind that I actually hadn't lost a battle in this game yet. I'd been close, but I guess I was doing just enough exploring to keep my characters powerful enough to deal with everything, even the bosses, without any enormous trouble (in fact, the balance of the game was what kept me interested, since I didn't have to level up for two days before taking on the 2nd level boss). So, I walked into the first group of enemies I saw. They put up a surprisingly good fight (probably my toughest of the game), but I finally managed to beat them. I made my way to the nearest chest, and it had some pretty decent stuff in it! Hey, I might as well get the rest of them while I'm here... So, I make it to a few more chests, kill off a few parties of devils or whatever they were, and I was doing okay. I run into another group of devils, and the match is going well... my characters are hurting, but there's only one devil left. Uh oh, looks like he's casting "ba-boom", that sounds like a big spell... naturally, I can't interrupt him in time, and he manages to pull it off.... WHAM! over 5000 damage to each of my characters, killing them all instantly! I wouldn't have been so pissed off if it hadn't been for the fact that none of my characters had more than about 3500 hit points to begin with (By the way, what the hell is with the stupid amounts of hit points in Japanese RPG's anyways?), so even if I had my characters fully healed at the time, just ONE of these jerks spells could instantly destroy them all! I immediately turned off the Dreamcast, and didn't play the game for months (I tried it again a while back, but not very seriously). It's also worth noting that that specific enemy was (for some reason) worth VERY FEW experience points... so not only were extremely hard, but they weren't even worth anything!

 

Not too long ago, I got a GBA, and it came with Golden Sun, which I was excited about since it was supposedly really good. Naturally, it started off as a standard Japanese RPG... my character was a little boy, had a traumatic experience when he was even younger, and I was on my way to beat an extremely powerful and extremely evil enemy who only showed up to steal the important items I found (y'know, since I was able to get them when he couldn't). "Ugh... not again..." I thought... not only all that, but the characters had an annoying habit of speaking in emoticons... a little speech bubble with a smily face or crying face would show up (apparently the Japanese cry a lot... at least, as far as I can tell), which was simply idiotic. However, I was able to put most of that behind me and have some fun with the game. At least the combat was somewhat interesting (although not really innovative, and having horrendously powerful moves that would summon Greek gods to attack). Things were going okay, when I went through a town and was greeted with an excessively long and boring (even for a Japanese game) non-interactive scene about a bunch of losers going to some festival across the ocean (naturally, they would cry when it looked like the trip might not happen). "Oh great..." I thought "I'm going to have to travel with these people." There was no question about it. I was definitely going to have to be with these annoying crybabies as I cross the ocean (Since it's Japanese, predictability is mandatory). It came to no surprise that I eventually ran out of places to look and had to cross the ocean. The ocean had been full of monsters lately, since "evil" had been stirring up all over the place lately (naturally... I mean, this IS japanese after all...). These monsters had been killing the oarsmen, and there was talk that they might not make it across the ocean unless they found more. Naturally, the tourists would cry at any mention that THEY might have to do work. It was immediately obvious that I was going to have to talk them into rowing... "Damn, this is going to be REALLY lame!" I thought to myself. 5 minutes later, I was asked to talk them into rowing, after a monster knocked out an oarsmen. This happened three more times before I was able to fight the boss. I didn't manage to beat the boss (although I'm sure I could if I put some more effort into it), but the whole "asking people to row" part of the story was just ridiculously lame to the point where I had to stop playing. I can put up with the pointless "item-quests" where you have to find a useless object that a person has lost/was stolen, and I can put up with having to do a town's dirty work, even when you know they won't even be happy enough to charge you less when you stay at the inn.... but the whole rowing thing was the straw that broke the camels back.

 

So what the hell? I don't understand why everyone likes these games. Did Squaresoft hypnotize everyone or something? The only japanese RPG (If you can call it an RPG) that I've been able to stand was the Legend of Zelda games, and even they get stupid at times... but at least there's no monotonous "levelling". I haven't played a really good RPG since Ultima 7 or Dungeon Master. Do they still make games like these, or is everyone jumping on the Japanese bandwagon?

 

--Zero

[snorlaxnut]

I am the complete opposite. I'm starting to enjoy RPGs.

 

After years of playing platform games that I can beat within an hour, RPGs are becoming much more interesting to me. I can just play the game for a few minutes, save the game, and not go back to the game for days if I want to.

 

Sure, most RPGs i've played don't have a lot of graphics, but the games are much slower so that I can think a little before I make my next move.

[Xot]

You know, I'm starting to get sick of people bashing (insert genre here) games. There are always people who don't like fighting games, or racing games, or sports games, and they always have the same argument:

"They're all the same."

Anyone who's seriously into any genre of gaming knows "viva la difference!" is the rule - it's why people play Street Fighter AND KOF, or F-Zero AND Gran Turismo, etc, etc, etc.

 

This isn't a personal knock at you, Ze_ro, but if you're not enjoying them and you think they all feel the same, then don't play 'em. Simple as that.

 

I'm sure someone whose gon through them all could easily highlight the key differences in every RPG they've played. There was a time when I could, but I haven't gone through an RPG since Secret of Mana.

[Ze_ro]

Don't get me wrong, I don't hate RPG's... I just don't like japanese-style ones. Non-japanese RPG's seem to have died off, which is a terrible shame.

 

Online games like Everquest don't count.

 

--Zero

[KaineMaxwell]

I've been playing rpgs for years since I first discovered Dragon Warrior and Final Fantasy.

[Xot]

In all honesty how many non-Japanese RPG's are there? The only ones that immediately come to mind are the Ultima series (awesome) and Secret of Evermore (suckfest).

 

And Warsong, but I'm not quite sure I'd call it an RPG, per se.

[cimerians]

Imagine how great Ultima, the Bard's tale or the AD&D Gold box games would be today if they were still around and they have Japanese RPG features: (Cutscenes, Great graphics, Great music etc.)

 

It seems every american RPG tried to advance technologically in some way that ruined the game in the long run.

 

Imagine playing a remake of Ultima 7 today with the features mentioned above and was developed by Lord British and Squaresoft.

 

(minus the dopey storylines and goofy animations)

 

I'm with you to a certain extent. I also am sick of them but I still play them because some are good and some are fun to play and besides its all we've got.

 

(I highly recommend Drakken, I really had a lot of fun with this game. If you have a PS2 (I think its on Xbox as well) buy it. Its a non-japanese RPG that turned out to be worth every dime I spent on it. A measley $29)

[cimerians]

....and you forgot to mention that the lead character in most Japanese RPG's is usually and indecisive, young thief or mercenary, usually the quiet type who doesn't talk much, cannot remember his past, and never admits to loving that girlteammate.

 

"...."

 

"...."

[Bratwurst]

In all honesty how many non-Japanese RPG's are there? The only ones that immediately come to mind are the Ultima series (awesome) and Secret of Evermore (suckfest).

 

Fallout, for one. Then there's Sanitarium.

 

It's when a game falls out of the 'Japanese RPG' element that it's easy to neglect realizing *when* a game is an rpg. I must side with Ze_ro in that alot of Japanese RPGs tend to be formulaic and harbor similar interfaces. It's what makes them so easy to point at and recognize.

[Happy_Dude]

Imagine how great Ultima, the Bard's tale or the AD&D Gold box games would be today if they were still around and they have Japanese RPG features:  (Cutscenes, Great graphics, Great music etc.)

 

It seems every american RPG tried to advance technologically in some way that ruined the game in the long run.

 

Imagine playing a remake of Ultima 7 today with the features mentioned above and was developed by Lord British and Squaresoft.

 

(minus the dopey storylines and goofy animations)

 

I'm with you to a certain extent. I also am sick of them but I still play them because some are good and some are fun to play and besides its all we've got.

 

(I highly recommend Drakken, I really had a lot of fun with this game. If you have a PS2 (I think its on Xbox as well) buy it. Its a non-japanese RPG that turned out to be worth every dime I spent on it. A measley $29)

What do you mean "its all we've got". Isn't this a board for classic gamers?

I still have 3 gold boxed AD&D games and would rather play them than

watch some flashy cut scene for 3 hours with no gameplay and then

spend several days levling up. RPG's used to be about imagination, heck

video games used to be about imagination. What happened

[heavy-sixer]

RPG's used to be about imagination, heck video games used to be about imagination. What happened

 

Happy_Dude, YOU GOT IT RIGHT!!!

 

I'm sick of most Japanese video game stuff (and cartoons) at this point. I find a lot of it creepy and disturbing. It's not a true RPG but my favorite game for PS2 is Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance. I like it's "flavor" and it's the "flavor" that I would like to see more RPGs come in.

[Mikau]

I blame Square. They killed the RPG with FF7 when they decided that it should be in 3d and have alot of movies. From that point on, every company making these "spiky-haired" RPGs followed suit and put cutscenes over gameplay. The RPG that SNES fans knew died in 1997.

 

I hope that the new Nintendo/Square games for GBA will go back to the SNES style of RPG, where there is still gameplay.

[cimerians]

I don't know, I enjoy some of the console rpg's that they are today although I agree they are not as fun as what they used to be.

 

I think Japanese companies like Konami and Square try to mix in movie like storylines and scenes with traditional role-playing elements. Sometimes it works well and sometimes it doesn't.

 

I of course will also take any old Ultima or AD&D goldbox games over any of today's games.

 

Those goldbox games were a mappers nightmare (unless you had the hintbooks.)

[sdstuff64]

I blame Square.

 

Why?Cause people ripped them off?I agree they are not as good as they use to be but it doesn't mean they all suck.Square made the first really popular RPG for next generation systems.Then people ripped them off,it isn't their fault.That is like blaming Doom for being the first popular FPS and spawning all these crappy ones.

 

 

 

where there is still gameplay.

 

There are plenty of good modern RPGs with great gameplay.Wild Arms 3,Suikoden III(sp?),any of the Dragon Warrior games,Skies of Arcadis,and Morrowind just to name a few.Just because there are a bunch of bad half assed games doesn't mean they are all like that.

 

And about all this movie stuff,it give the game a better story and is a good break from reading all the text.

 

 

Sorry if it feels like I am ripping into you Paul,but it isn't you.It is threads like this that just kinda sets me.

[Invader_dag]

help me out here, are there any RPGs that are do not have Japanese overtones?? I can`t think of any of them. And if you pay attention to the plot, and talk to different people in the towns and such, it makes more sense.

And i really don`t see what you mean about Chrono Trigger's plot be hard to follow. I thought it was pretty easy to understand

[snorlaxnut]

help me out here, are there any RPGs that are do not have Japanese overtones?? I can`t think of any of them.

 

How about Earthbound for the SNES?

[theaveng]

You know the type I'm talking about. Chrono Trigger, Golden Sun, Final Fantasy... I'm sick of them all. Granted, I haven't played them too much, but I don't see a lot of point in that, since they're all pretty much the same.

How can you judge a genre you "haven't played the much"? That's like saying: I tried coffee, and didn't like it, therefore I hate ALL drinks.

 

I enjoy RPGs for the following reasons:

- the story.

- the cool visual and audio effects (I'm an engineer; computer technology fascinates me)

- the challenge of fighting ever-stronger monsters.

- being *in* the story instead of just watching it.

- the satisfaction of beating the final boss and saving the world.

- falling in love with the characters (not literally) just like I learned to love the characters in Babylon 5 and Star Wars.

 

Overall I find RPGs have more to offer than other genres like First-Person Shooters or Platformers or Fighters. Not that I don't like those types of games, but they lack the same amount of depth in story/characters/growth, and can't hold my attention for 50 hours like an RPG can.

[Xot]

Overall I find RPGs have more to offer than other genres like First-Person Shooters or Platformers or Fighters.  Not that I don't like those types of games, but they lack the same amount of depth in story/characters/growth, and can't hold my attention for 50 hours like an RPG can.

 

And I find myself playing games like Street Fighter III over and over again because it's a head-to-head competition, whereas I haven't touched a Final Fantasy game in years. Sure, I put a lot of time into it initially, but after I've seen it all, I've seen it all and generally don't need to do so again.

 

To each his own!

[Gabriel]

I'll tell ya what I'm sick of. I'm sick of action RPGs and other rapid fire button tricks you need to do during combat to be even moderately capable.

 

I like turn based RPGs. Specifically, I like tactical RPGs like Wizards Crown, Ultima 3 and 4, Shining Force, Guardian War, Blazing Heroes, Final Fantasy Tactics, and Front Mission. I really wish we'd see more of these because things like Zelda, Secret of Mana, or any number of their clones really make me wanna puke.

 

And no matter what, I tend to come back to play Dragon Warrior, Shining Force, and FF6 again and again.

[Paralistalon]

To me, the best RPGs are the most complex ones. I like as much character customization as possible. Ogre Battle 64 and SaGa Frontier are games that I can play over and over.

 

I also like puzzles in my dungeons, and I despise repetitive combat. Breath of Fire II had WAY too many random encounters, and battles were always the same. Each character had like 5 spells, if any, by the end of the game and battles consisted of attack attack attack attack and heal the party after every 5th battle. They had something going with the Shaman system; too bad they didn't expand on its potential. Now Breath of Fire III was done right.

 

A strong story also helps. What I mean is, I want to look forward to talking to people. If I feel nauseaus at the prospect of entering a new town and having to talk to people, then something is wrong.

 

I also like innovation. Innovation scores loads of points with me because it threatens to make the RPG experience different. Overall, I think the battle system is much more important than the storyline. A fun battle system can save a poor storyline.

 

My current picks for good RPGs are:

 

Dragon Quarter- I sooo wish I had a PS2

Lufia: Ruins of Lore- I can't wait for this game to come out!!

[Yar]

Ohh, come on! I hate Anime, but I love the Final Fantasy games...

 

Oh well...

[Xot]

I'll tell ya what I'm sick of.  I'm sick of action RPGs and other rapid fire button tricks you need to do during combat to be even moderately capable.  

 

I like turn based RPGs.  Specifically, I like tactical RPGs like Wizards Crown, Ultima 3 and 4, Shining Force, Guardian War, Blazing Heroes, Final Fantasy Tactics, and Front Mission.  I really wish we'd see more of these because things like Zelda, Secret of Mana, or any number of their clones really make me wanna puke.

 

And no matter what, I tend to come back to play Dragon Warrior, Shining Force, and FF6 again and again.

 

If you like Shining Force and FF Tactics, you really need to check out Warsong

[Foxy Cleopatra]

I agree 100% with Ze_ro, although I would like to extend it to every genre of games. I am sick to death of seeing japanese caricatures of human beings with blue hair, big eyes and child-like faces. I think their culture must be full of pedophiles.

And I never understand a single thing in any of the plots. Even the Jet Sets that I love have the queerest plots.

[chrisbid]

face it, video game plots suck across the board

 

american plots tend to be uber-macho which as we all know is just repressed homosexuality. The only RPG story that made sense from beginning to end and grabbed me was Phantasy Star II. In terms of gameplay, it was extremely dull, but the dungeons were incredibly complex mazes that required you to map them out (and even with graph paper, it was easy to get lost), and the story line didn't involve any lame ass glowing balls of light or any weird hybrid of eastern and western gods meddling with mortals and taking mythical forms set on destroying the world for whatever cloudy reason, it was sci-fi through and through, and the ending was simply shocking. Its where my avatar and user sig comes from. But it was under the radar in 1989 when it was released, and it doesnt feature the eye candy and hold-your-hand unchallenge that today's console RPGs have

[Kid Fenris]

I'm probably going to get murdered in my sleep for saying this, but I'm mighty sick of Japanese RPG's.

 

You know the type I'm talking about. Chrono Trigger, Golden Sun, Final Fantasy... I'm sick of them all. Granted, I haven't played them too much, but I don't see a lot of point in that, since they're all pretty much the same. The story never makes much sense, and the parts of it that do are the same from game to game (great evil that's threatening the world, your initially wimpy character the only one that can stop it, blah, blah, blah). The characters are always pretty much the same, the women are deformed Japanese Eye-monsters that barely look human anymore... the male lead is always spaced out and indecisive (Which leads to many conversations that go like this: Male: ".......", Female: "..........."), and there's always some dorky character that's amazing with machines somehow.

 

Try something off of the beaten path. Valkyrie Profile, Vagrant Story, Rhapsody, Tactics Ogre: Knight of Lodis, the Suikoden series, Tales of Destiny II, Saga Frontier 2, and Persona 2 have little in common with the cliches you've mentioned. Even Xenosaga, with the "deformed Japanese eye-monsters" that you so loathe, goes into new territory for an RPG.

 

And though it's true that numerous game storylines are incoherent, others are just understated, absolving them of blame if players don't pick up on the plot. I've never had a problem understanding any RPG storyline (whether or not I like them is another matter), but then, I dig oblique, strange stuff in any form.

 

I think their culture must be full of pedophiles.

 

Funny, that's probably what the Japanese think of the United States when they see a Britney Spears music video or an interview with Michael Jackson.