suspicious_milk Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I'm gonna pick up a lantronix Mss-100 for use on a 130xe. I'd like to play with ICE-T and/or Bob term. I do NOT use APE or AspeQt nor have any interest in starting. For those in the know, are there any real pro's con's between sio2pc versus P:R: Connetion ? Ease of setup/use? Speed? Don't care about the cost difference. and to finish with a dumb question ... Would the connecting cable need to be null or straight? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atari8warez Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 (edited) SIO2PC --> to connect your Atari to your PC via SIO port for disk drive emulation. P:R Connection --> to connect your Atari to printers and/or modems. So the two device have completely different purposes, the only common denominator is they connect via the SIO port. Edited February 12, 2014 by atari8warez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suspicious_milk Posted February 12, 2014 Author Share Posted February 12, 2014 And they can both connect to a lantronix ... Hence my question Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 It's a bit different - with SIO2PC you have the PC acting as an intermediary/buffer or virtual printer to text file if desired. If you're not bothered to use the virual floppy aspect of having the Atari connected to PC, then may as well go the P: R: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 (edited) I've used the RVerter driver quite happily with an SIO2PC connected to one of my MSS-100s (with a readily available DB9/DB25 adapter at the RS232 end) - works a treat and is a perfectly legitimate way of connecting to a modem. However, I'd prefer to use my P:R: Connection and will be attempting to set it up again soon (it wouldn't previously work, probably because of a bug in a PBI HDD driver). Here's some information I received from AA member Lord Cygnus which may be of use regarding the P:R: cable: Lantronix Device (DB25 connector) <> P:R:Connection (DB9 Connector) DB25 Pin #2 is Transmit connected to DB9 Pin #3 Transmit DB25 Pin #3 is Receive connected to DB9 Pin #4 Receive DB25 Pin #7 is Ground connected to DB9 Pin #5 Ground ... In addition, you could also try connecting pin #1 on the DB9 connector (DTR) to pin # 20 on the DB25 connector to see what happens. The pinouts for the ICD P:R:Connection on the DB9 connector are: Pin # 3 - Transmit (XMT) Pin # 4 - Receive (RCV) Pin # 1 - Data Terminal Ready (DTR) Pin # 2 - Signal (Carrier) Detect (CRX) Pin # 6 - Data Set Ready (DSR) Pin # 7 - Request to Send (RTS) Pin # 8 - Clear to Send (CTS) Pin # 5 - Signal Ground (GND) ... The usual RS232 pinouts on the DB25 side is: Pin # 8 - Data Carrier Detect (DCD) Pin # 3 - Receive Data (Rx) Pin # 2 - Transmit Data (Tx) Pin # 20 - Data Terminal Ready (DTR) Pin # 7 - Signal Ground (GND) Pin # 6 - Data Set Ready (DSR) Pin # 4 - Request to Send (RTS) Pin # 5 - Clear to Send (CTS) Pin # 22 - Ring Indicator (RI) Edited February 12, 2014 by flashjazzcat 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suspicious_milk Posted February 12, 2014 Author Share Posted February 12, 2014 Thanks... So with PRC, I have to rewire a cable ? :-\ I thought a regular modem cable would do it. Drat. I also found threads where users were connecting an sio2pc straight from the Atari to lantronix with no PC involved (which is my plan - NO PC). I'm only unclear on what cable to use straight (I think) or null or rewired. The PRC is more $, but looks better + printer and extra serial. I *think* it can get better speed due to flow control ? ? However, the setup on sio2pc seems much more straight forward. Any more tips/advice appreciated, esp if you actually use such a setup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 So with PRC, I have to rewire a cable ? :-\ I thought a regular modem cable would do it. Drat. I'll be able to tell you one way or another when I have another go at setting up my PRC. I also found threads where users were connecting an sio2pc straight from the Atari to lantronix with no PC involved (which is my plan - NO PC). That's what I'm doing using the RVerter driver with SIO2PC. There is no PC involved. Atari->SIO2PC->Lantronix->Switch box. The PRC is more $, but looks better + printer and extra serial. I *think* it can get better speed due to flow control ? ? I want to use the PRC just to keep the clutter down on the desk, and free up an extra pass-thru SIO port. And it does look better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suspicious_milk Posted February 12, 2014 Author Share Posted February 12, 2014 Oh, thank you much! Yes, please keep me posted! I'm leaning PRC for the same reasons, but it seems *slightly/possibly* more problematic/involved. It'll be a couple weeks before I can make my required purchases anyways:-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 NP. I should be giving the PRC another try this weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russg Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 (edited) NP. I should be giving the PRC another try this weekend. The PRC, 850, MIO all require special RS232 and centronics cables. These cables will be at Best or B&C, I think.PINOUTS Here's from M Current's A8 FAQ: ======= 850 Serial Port No. 1 (9-pin female connector): 1. Data Terminal Ready (DTR, Ready Out) 2. Carrier Detect (CRX, In) 5 1 3. Send Data (Out) o o o o o 4. Receive Data (In) o o o o 5. Signal Ground 9 6 6. Data Set Ready (DSR, Ready In) 7. Request to Send (RTS, Out) 8. Clear to Send (CTS, In) Use a cable with the following connections to attach a standard RS-232 modem to an Atari via the 850's Serial Port No. 1 (equivalent to the Atari CX87 Modem Cable): DB25P (RS-232 Modem) | DB9P (850 Interface) 20 1 - DTR 8 2 - CRX 2 3 - XMT 3 4 - RCV 7 5 - GND 6 6 - DSR 4 7 - RTS 5 8 - CTS Frame - to the shield wire | No connection to shield (Some formatting off) Edited February 12, 2014 by russg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Yeah - it's the CX87, isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russg Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 (edited) Yeah - it's the CX87, isn't it? Yes, for the modem cable, CX87 ,Best; CA015900-03 4 foot .... $15.00. Best 850 to Centronics printer cable CB101279 ....$15.00 (I think, the catalog is hard to read) (I say 'special' cable meaning a 'standard' PC modem or printer cable won't work) Edited February 12, 2014 by russg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Cool... I knew it was something like that. I made three cables but none of them worked. Now I realize it was a software issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+bf2k+ Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I have no experience with a LANtronix myself, but connecting the sio2pc directly to a LANtronix should require a nullmodem cable since I suspect both are DCE devices. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fres Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 You definitely need a null modem cable or adapter somewhere in the chain. But you can do it entirely with "consumer off the shelf" products even if the PRC or 850 require some bizarre cables. They are getting harder to find, however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 Do P:R: Connections with 4MHz crystals in them work at all with PAL equipment? I've had my PRC for about a year now and am still trying to get it to work with my (known working with RVerter) Lantronix MSS-100. I've tried every cable under the sun (most recently a replica of the CX87), blamed bugs in my own PBI code, and tested every driver I can find, and the bloody thing still doesn't work. If I plug a printer into it, that works fine: just not the RS232. No driver I install allows me to perform any operations on "R:", although the drivers provide no feedback of any problem. I'm unsure whether Ice-T checks for errors at all, but that just sits there accepting terminal commands and producing no output. I get the occasional scrolling garbage across the screen, but absolutely nothing else. I'm now considering throwing the interface in the garbage. Any PRC users with working, duplicable PAL device server set-ups please get in touch. All out of ideas here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 Well... total exasperation sometimes gets results, it seems. Had a rummage around my spares box and found some crazy-looking DB25-DB9 cable I'd made up and abandoned. Plugged it in and hey presto - works. Just need to figure out what's different. RX and DTR are jumpered at the DB9 end for starters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suspicious_milk Posted March 4, 2014 Author Share Posted March 4, 2014 Atari 130xe > P:R:C > CX87 modem cable > gender changer > Lantronix MSS100 Going to "terminal" in Ice-T menu, I get a bunch of garbage data on screen. So, I think I've got the right setup ... just gotta play with some songs?? I've got a Side2 coming soon, may wait on it to fiddle any further. I'll gladly take suggestions though. Or a nice ATR with Bobterm and DOS already on it ? :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillC Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Atari 130xe > P:R:C > CX87 modem cable > gender changer > Lantronix MSS100 Going to "terminal" in Ice-T menu, I get a bunch of garbage data on screen. So, I think I've got the right setup ... just gotta play with some songs?? I've got a Side2 coming soon, may wait on it to fiddle any further. I'll gladly take suggestions though. Or a nice ATR with Bobterm and DOS already on it ? :-) The MSS100 has a DTE port and is designed to connect DCE devices to ethernet, to connect to a PRC/850(DTE) a null modem will be needed in place of the gender changer. Documentation for the MSS100 is available at: http://www.lantronix.com/support/discontinued.html A Bobterm 1.22 ATR is attached to the linked post: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/217613-telelink-ii/?view=findpost&p=2850435 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 The only deviation I had to make to a direct CX87 cable connection was swapping pins 2 and 3 at the DB9 end (with reference to the wiring plan at the back of the PRC handbook). After that, everything worked. Don't know why, but I'm happy with it. Flow control works, the lot. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suspicious_milk Posted March 5, 2014 Author Share Posted March 5, 2014 Uhg, I'm all thumbs, so no hacky cable. Will a regular PC null modem cable (or apropriate adapter) work, or is the cx-88 special? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 use the the cx87 cable and put a standard null modem adapter into the mss... gender bender is useless.... must be null modem adapter.. they still sell em just take the cx87 with you and the mss... explain the cx87 must be kept it's special hardware and that you need to put null modem into mss lantronix box then cx87 into null modem... they will help you out after a moment or two.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+orpheuswaking Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 (edited) Here is mine... The brown cart is a homemade SIO2PC device and then a 25pin to 9 pin adapter direct to the MSS10 (there is a gender changer in there too) Edited March 5, 2014 by orpheuswaking 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suspicious_milk Posted March 5, 2014 Author Share Posted March 5, 2014 (edited) Well, the problem would be now I've ruined my CX87 trying to swap pins around (I have clumsy hands when it comes to small parts). So I'm buying a new cable and or adapter, period no way around that. CX88 (atari null modem cable) would obviously work* but are only available for like ~$20 shipped. I can get a (not atari specific) db9m >> db25f null modem adapter ~$6 ... would this work* (using NO cable just connecting PRC to Lantronix - shoving the two together ?). I can get a db9m db25f null modem cable (not atari specific) and wouldn't need gender bender at about $15. Would this work*? * work : me not haveing to cut and splice for some reason, I was under the impression that a "standard" modem or null modem cable needed surgery to work with the PRC - - am I wrong here? And thank you all, for the replies - it's greatly appreciated! Edited March 5, 2014 by suspicious_milk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 lets make this perfectly clear... you must use an Atari specific rs232 cable... you can then use industry standard null modem adapter attached to the end of that cable... you can not use standard cable from ibm pc it is not wired correctly you can not put the adapter directly into the 850/pr/mio.... the pins are wired completely wrong for that purpose and will translate incorrectly the horse must always be in front of the carriage otherwise kaboom! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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