Poll: Is ET as bad as people claim?

[davyK]

Everyone is different. Some people don't like games like Super Sprint, Indy 500 or Micro Machines because the steering is reversed when driving down the screen - but that is something I never had a problem with.

 

However playing Tempest 2000 with a dpad gives me problems - when on the other side of the web the left/right controls are reversed and it takes me a while to get used to that and never feels natural....that game should only be played with a paddle or spinner control.

Edited May 24, 2014 by davyK

[Andromeda Stardust]

Everyone is different. Some people don't like games like Super Sprint, Indy 500 or Micro Machines because the steering is reversed when driving down the screen - but that is something I never had a problem with.

 

However playing Tempest 2000 with a dpad gives me problems - when on the other side of the web the left/right controls are reversed and it takes me a while to get used to that and never feels natural....that game should only be played with a paddle or spinner control.

Playing top-down racers don't really bother me. Micro Machines and Ivan Stewart's Super Off-Road are both awesome (the original arcade Super Off-Road for NES/SNES; not the lame SNES "Baha" sequel). I've also got Tempest X3 for PS1 as well as Atari Arcade Collection for SNES, and both Tempest ports play well enough with a Dpad. You get used to playing both upside down and right side up after about five minutes of play.

 

FYI, if you like top down racers, there's an excellent game called Retro Racing available for Ouya. Go check it out; it rocks!

[+Random Terrain]

In case anyone is interested, the following is from page 83 of The Video Game Explosion: A History from PONG to Playstation and Beyond:

From the late 1970s and throughout the 1980s, adventure games generally fell into two camps: graphical adventure games and text adventure games. The first, represented mainly by home video games, relied mainly on graphics that had an on-screen character the player could control and spaces that were navigated graphically. The graphics were simple, and often mixed perspectives, showing the playing field itself in top view, while the characters and objects were shown in side view (the practice of mixed perspectives existed long before video games, and appeared in a variety of places including maps, medieval drawings, and chess diagrams). What the games lacked in visual richness and narrative depth they attempted to make up For in direct, on-screen action which was more immediate than verbal descriptions and typed responses.

[tailGator]

Agreed with those saying the 2D/3D perspective was a major issue. That and having to navigate out of the pits after ascending. The game should probably have placed you in a safe (non-falling) area upon ascension.

 

Having said that, I liked E.T a lot and spent a lot of time playing it as a kid. It's better than many Atari games in the same genre like Adventure (blasphemy I know), Raiders of the Lost Ark, and the Swordquest series.

[Andromeda Stardust]

I don't get why the top-down perspective with side profile character views is an issue personally. Most NES adventure type games including Zelda used this perspective to great success.

 

ET is a heaping pile of turd due to the rushed development cycle. I believe the game would have been fun and playable had it had the same traditional 5 months development time as other classics like Yars.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

I don't get why the top-down perspective with side profile character views is an issue personally. Most NES adventure type games including Zelda used this perspective to great success.

Because E.T. is plain wrong where they are right. If you use this mixed perspective, you must redefine the collision area.

 

In E.T., if your head(!) touches a pit, you fall in. Which is completely surprising to everyone initially and very annoying for most later. Also it is something which could have been easily fixed, if the game would have gotten a remotely sane development time and at least some play testing.

 

For me, E.T. looks more like an unfinished prototype, which might have become interesting when being finished.

[+Random Terrain]

Because E.T. is plain wrong where they are right. If you use this mixed perspective, you must redefine the collision area.

 

In E.T., if your head(!) touches a pit, you fall in. Which is completely surprising to everyone initially and very annoying for most later. Also it is something which could have been easily fixed, if the game would have gotten a remotely sane development time and at least some play testing.

 

For me, E.T. looks more like an unfinished prototype, which might have become interesting when being finished.

 

Some people also bitch about the fixed version. When you think of the wells as objects to avoid with the whole body of E.T., it's not frustrating or annoying at all. You just avoid running into them using the safe paths that each well site has. Similar to what I've said before, I run a straight line along a safe path, and when I want to change directions, I stop at a safe path intersection, then run down the next safe path.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

I am just explained one reason why E.T. failed back then and still fails on me now.

 

The fixed version is much better there, but it cannot fix all flaws.

[+Random Terrain]

I am just explained one reason why E.T. failed back then and still fails on me now.

 

The fixed version is much better there, but it cannot fix all flaws.

 

One of these days I'm going to make my own fixed version of E.T. using the DPC+ version of batari Basic, so I'll need to know all of the changes that people want. I may not use every idea, but it still wouldn't hurt to start building up a list of possible changes. Since this won't be a hack, I'll have more freedom to make the changes that people want (within reason).

[Jinks]

 

One of these days I'm going to make my own fixed version of E.T. using the DPC+ version of batari Basic, so I'll need to know all of the changes that people want. I may not use every idea, but it still wouldn't hurt to start building up a list of possible changes. Since this won't be a hack, I'll have more freedom to make the changes that people want (within reason).

You should make it on the 7800 a graphically enhanced one. It could use the popularity and the 25 topics that go along with ET.

But then again people would just say "See Et could never be done right on the 2600"

So it would be pointless. Causecthey the way people are. But a 7800 version would be cool. It is the SVCS anyways...

[davyK]

It might be better to think of a new game of a similar style. You seem to like the object hunt and the zone aspect of the game and the fact that they change location each time you play. They are ideas that could be used in many different scenarios. You could probably build up quite a complex game just with those two ideas - never mind the other stuff such as the enemies that use logic to move toward you.

 

You could have clues and objects that are used to solve a game. Having lots of clues that could be multi-purpose would be interesting as you could build up several scenarios within the one game. For example - one clue you find could be an arrow - that could mean a directional clue OR an object to find - that's just off the top of my head - there could be lots of others.

 

Similarly with zones - if you equate a zone to an action you have a large set of actions that go with objects/clues to create a large number of puzzles.

 

Each play through could vary the locations AND the set of clues , objects & zones used to have a large number of different scenarios....would require a lot of clever thinking and planning to keep it so that each game would appear to be fresh.

 

The main limiting factor is the special code you have to write for the each object and action - would be hard to make that reusable - but at least it would be a template for making lots of different games.

 

Then take it to the next step - maybe even create an "engine" other people could use to create brand new puzzles by adding new zones, objects and clues and their inter-relations - you could recreate ET that way as just one possible scenario! Quite ambitious for a base 2600 and my point about special code for certain actions and objects would restrict that idea - but the resources of a 2600 re advanced code techniques and ROM size etc. nowadays mean that a game with more generic events would be feasible.

 

OK - not exactly the same thing - but conceptually not a million miles away - look at how many different scenes David Crane created with just a few bits and a small number of predefined objects in Pitfall

 

Tempting to be grandiose - but keeping the number of objects, clues etc. down and making them multi-purpose would be better as it is more in keeping with why 2600 games are so attractive - they are pared down gaming experiences with (on the whole!) solid design, artful use of limited resources and delicately balanced difficulty curves. No big challenge then !!

Edited May 25, 2014 by davyK

[+Random Terrain]

You should make it on the 7800 a graphically enhanced one. It could use the popularity and the 25 topics that go along with ET.

But then again people would just say "See Et could never be done right on the 2600"

So it would be pointless. Causecthey the way people are. But a 7800 version would be cool. It is the SVCS anyways...

 

I'll probably make an Atari 7800 version too, but the first thing I'll make is the Atari 2600 versions that people will be able to play using an emulator or the Harmony cart.

 

 

 

 

It might be better to think of a new game of a similar style.

 

That's always been my plan, once batari Basic was able to do what I want it to do. The DPC+ kernel still doesn't have enough variables for what I require, but it has more than it used to and many other improvements thanks to RevEng, so maybe there's a chance I can make something good if I kill off enough sprites. But before that, it wouldn't hurt to make a variation of E.T. that is similar to the real game, then a "what if it didn't have wells" version. I've basically become "Mr. E.T." without even meaning to, so it makes sense that I'd be the one to make these versions of E.T. It could get me warmed up for making my own adventure games. Now that the batari Basic DPC+ kernel is better than ever, I can finally do this stuff.

[Jinks]

Et was never the greatest game ever. And it was never the worst game ever. Thanks to RT the game will be great. But when it comes to people saying it was the worst game in history. Ya cant fix stupid!

Edited May 25, 2014 by Jinks

[davyK]

 

I'll probably make an Atari 7800 version too, but the first thing I'll make is the Atari 2600 versions that people will be able to play using an emulator or the Harmony cart.

 

 

 

 

 

That's always been my plan, once batari Basic was able to do what I want it to do. The DPC+ kernel still doesn't have enough variables for what I require, but it has more than it used to and many other improvements thanks to RevEng, so maybe there's a chance I can make something good if I kill off enough sprites. But before that, it wouldn't hurt to make a variation of E.T. that is similar to the real game, then a "what if it didn't have wells" version. I've basically become "Mr. E.T." without even meaning to, so it makes sense that I'd be the one to make these versions of E.T. It could get me warmed up for making my own adventure games. Now that the batari Basic DPC+ kernel is better than ever, I can finally do this stuff.

 

 

Doing any fancy processing during the inter frame gap is a big challenge too I expect. Only so much code you can fit into that time period before having to start displaying again...

[Omegamatrix]

E.T. might not be all that bad, but it isn't so great either. No game should ever be that frustrating. The pits were a bad idea. I don't care how you sugar coat it.

[Andromeda Stardust]

E.T. might not be all that bad, but it isn't so great either. No game should ever be that frustrating. The pits were a bad idea. I don't care how you sugar coat it.

The pits were a great idea. It was a self fullfilling prophesy. All those ET carts got buried in pits, didn't they? That can't be a coincidence.

[+Random Terrain]

E.T. might not be all that bad, but it isn't so great either. No game should ever be that frustrating. The pits were a bad idea. I don't care how you sugar coat it.

 

If it had to have wells, it should have been easier to get out of them, since uncoordinated little kids back 1982 were supposed to be able to play the game. But with all of the frustrating popular games since then that require the learning of insane skills and demand that players make no mistakes or they will have to play a bunch of levels over and over again until all dance steps are learned and perfection is achieved, avoiding wells and getting out of wells should be easy in comparison. Adults who have played through years of NES, SNES, Playstation, and beyond should be pros at problem solving by now.

 

If you take the game as it is instead of wishing things were different and grumbling the whole time or having flashbacks, the attitude shift will allow you to quickly master the wells, just like you've mastered things in other games that were even more difficult. First, you learn how to run in straight lines along the safe paths. Next, you learn to avoid the danger areas. Then you learn how to enter a well using the safest side. Then you learn how to catch yourself in mid-air when you jump into a well or those rare times when you fall into a well because you were distracted or sleepy. Then you learn how to get out of a well and leave using the safest side so you won't fall back in. Now you're a master of the wells.

 

After that you can learn to become a master of the humans in the game. You'll learn their basic patterns and use that knowledge to know where it's probably safe to walk or run and you'll even learn how to escape from the scientist. Since only one human can be on a site at a time, you'll take advantage of that fact and send a human back to Washington, D.C. while another human is trying to leave Washington, D.C. to get to you, causing a human traffic jam, then you'll be free to explore that site with no worries. The human won't be able to hurt you. He's in a trance. Touch him, tickle him, poke your finger up his butt. He can't harm you. You're safe. You are in control.

 

Now you are a master of the wells and the humans and you can't believe that you were ever frustrated by anything in this game. You're like Neo at the end of the original Matrix movie. If the FBI agent started shooting, you could probably stop his bullets with a wave of your hand. The game might be too easy for you now, but don't worry; you can play with faster humans.

[high voltage]

Hall of Fame, most famous video game of all time now. That's great. Atari rocks

[Andromeda Stardust]

...touch him, tickle him, stick your finger up his butt...

RT, you sound like you speak from experience. Were you once abducted by aliens?

[tailGator]

Even if getting out of the pits were easier, it's not a compelling game mechanic nor was it part of the movie.

[+Random Terrain]

Even if getting out of the pits were easier, it's not a compelling game mechanic nor was it part of the movie.

 

I always wondered if HSW saw a photo of dying E.T. next to the water and thought it was a well.

 

http://basementrejects.com/review/e-t-the-extra-terrestrial-1982/

[almightytodd]

 

...But with all of the frustrating popular games since then that require the learning of insane skills and demand that players make no mistakes or they will have to play a bunch of levels over and over again until all dance steps are learned and perfection is achieved, avoiding wells and getting out of wells should be easy in comparison. Adults who have played through years of NES, SNES, Playstation, and beyond should be pros at problem solving by now.

 

Over the years, I've played Mountain King dozens of times, and only once, made it to the top of the mountain with the crown before the time ran out. When my son was in Jr High, there was no NES game that he couldn't rent over a weekend, and return it to the store on Monday having "finished" the game. I've never made it past the third level of Super Mario Bros 1, 2, or 3. NES Mega Man? Forget it... ...defeat one of the bosses? I can't even make it to one of the bosses.

 

Are any of these games "the worst game ever made"? Of course not - they were all good sellers. Are they "incredibly frustrating"? They are to me, but not to everyone else who is somehow able to develop the skills and knowledge to survive, excel, and triumph when playing them. It sounds to me like a good case could be made that HSW was ahead of his time in creating a game that had a similar level of depth and challenge of games that would follow during a time when the typical video game challenge was, "move left and right, avoid collisions, and shoot aliens".

 

My only gripe with E.T. all along has been that "game 1" is the hardest variation, while "game 3" provides a training experience free from pursuit by the Scientist and FBI agent, so you can figure out the world of the "E.T. cube" and practice getting in and out of the pits. I'm guessing that HSW must have thought if game 3 was the default, it would have been too easy and many of those "throw away the manual and play" types might not have ever discovered the challenges of out-running the humans in the other two game variations...

[Andromeda Stardust]

@almightytodd I've beaten Super Mario Brothers scads of times, warps or not, but can't play Megaman worth dookey. Everyone has their own tolerance to how difficult games are. Many suck at one genre or era but excell at another.

 

@tailgator yes, the "falling in pits" mechanic is definitely the Achilles Heel of the game. While I don't take offence to adding mechanics not present in the movie, it needs to have a purpose or benefit gameplay in some way. The pits in ET do neither.

[Mord]

^^RT, that's the third time you've posted that same vid. Just because someone out there can speedrun the game to a digitized commentary, does not mean that everyone who plays it can beat it in 2 minutes. And length of time required to speed run a game (with practice) is not an indicator of how good or bad it is.

 

Indeed, but at the same time the game doesn't suck. It takes just a couple minutes to realize how to get out of a pit safely. There are only 4 screens with pits at all and the other two screens are placed predictably around them the same way every game. A couple tries and you'll learn where to avoid leaving a screen due to a pit being on the other side. The game plays well and has a decent level of challenge imo. You want to label a game as terrible, go play the ones that came out that would fail to read the joystick reliably, or were simply impossible to play. THOSE are terrible. ET had none of those issues. ET was just a overhyped game that ultimately wasn't able to live up to what the marketing department made it out to be. That doesn't make a game terrible. It just disappoints customers. (Who then go about labeling it as terrible but eh.)

 

I'd be far more disappointed with the game if people were expected to be able to beat it in 2 minutes all the time honestly.

[Opry99er]

One word to show what a really BAD game looks like...

 

"Firefly"

 

I have E.T., I enjoy it, but it is not on my favorites list. It is more of a 'thinker' or strategy-oriented game than reflex-type games like Invaders, Kaboom, GORF, or Centipede.

 

I tend to group home video games into "Checkers" and "Chess" categories...

 

You have games that are fun and quick and require no manual to play. These games are very much linked to coin-op games and (when well executed) are a blast. Checkers.

 

Then there are games that have distinctive strategy elements to them... Ones which require thought and planning. They can still be fast paced, but don't have to be. These games are more related to card games or board games... Like chess.

 

 

I think E.T. has elements of both, but I place it into the Chess category... Slightly less common in VCS games than the checkers type games, but I think that gives a unique aura to it.

 

VCS was primarily a "home arcade," so most offerings were fast-paced, high score oriented reflex games. E.T. is an example of a game ahead of its time that was written in a hurry.