A question of ignorance... (XB / EA5)

[RXB]

 

RXB is also not compatible with BOOT, and any other interrupt driven XB program loader that replaces 'DSK1.LOAD' when starting XB. That's why the startup code in XB v2.7 is untouched, to remain compatible with TI XB.

 

Gazoo

Very true but then you are stuck with the only option on startup to be a standard XB LOAD program and nothing else.

 

RXB has BATCH file that will do anything you could type in so like a DOS for the TI99/4A i.e. LOAD, EDIT, MERGE, SAVE, CREATE, MOVE, RESEQUENCE and run multiple programs from one single BATCH file. No other XB in the TI99/4A has this feature.

 

Or press ENTER key and run EA5 UTIL1 program.

 

Or press the Period key and switch to Editor Assembler instantly.

 

Or press 0 (zero key) and it will load WDS1.LOAD off of a hard drive so this works with HFDC or SCSI cards also in MESS.

 

One line program will run Boot or even Funnelweb:

100 CALL EAPGM("DSK1.BOOT") ! Any EA 5 program.

OR

100 CALL EAPGM("DSK1.FW") ! Any EA 5 program.

OR

100 CALL EALR("DSK1.YOURPGM") ! Any EA 3 program.

 

Besides these single line loaders take up much less space as a LOAD program then the normal LOAD programs they use, thus saves disk space and are much faster.

Edited June 11, 2014 by RXB

[RobertLM78]

Hey Rich, is there a way to load GPL programs from directly from RXB? (Such as DiskReview)

[Gazoo]

Very true but then you are stuck with the only option on startup to be a standard XB LOAD program and nothing else.

 

RXB has BATCH file that will do anything you could type in so like a DOS for the TI99/4A i.e. LOAD, EDIT, MERGE, SAVE, CREATE, MOVE, RESEQUENCE and run multiple programs from one single BATCH file. No other XB in the TI99/4A has this feature.

 

Or press ENTER key and run EA5 UTIL1 program.

 

Or press the Period key and switch to Editor Assembler instantly.

 

Or press 0 (zero key) and it will load WDS1.LOAD off of a hard drive so this works with HFDC or SCSI cards also in MESS.

 

One line program will run Boot or even Funnelweb:

100 CALL EAPGM("DSK1.BOOT") ! Any EA 5 program.

OR

100 CALL EAPGM("DSK1.FW") ! Any EA 5 program.

OR

100 CALL EALR("DSK1.YOURPGM") ! Any EA 3 program.

 

Besides these single line loaders take up much less space as a LOAD program then the normal LOAD programs they use, thus saves disk space and are much faster.

 

6 of one and 1/2 a dozen of the other.

 

All of the options mentioned are available in the ubergrom XB v2.7 cart and much more, instantly available from the menu. just waiting for the Grom portion of the cart to be available...

 

What would be really cool is to make RXB compatible with TI XB, get rid of the RXB menu screen that searches all drives so that interrupt driven loaders such as Funnelweb and Boot actually work. While you're at it, restore the correct function of the F8 key, one of the handiest functions of TI XB. I've used the F8 key with EVERY PROGRAM I'VE EVER WRITTEN in XB, to not have that wonderful function available is like cutting off a finger.

 

Gazoo

[RobertLM78]

...While you're at it, restore the correct function of the F8 key, one of the handiest functions of TI XB. I've used the F8 key with EVERY PROGRAM I'VE EVER WRITTEN in XB, to not have that wonderful function available is like cutting off a finger.

Gazoo

Rich explained to me the reasoning - it essentially has to do with reserving tokens, if I recall/understand correctly (tokens are a bit beyond my knowledge at this point, so I didn't completely understand). In any event, I don't think he took the decision to remove the function lightly.

 

That said, I agree: it is a handy function indeed (I've probably used it for every XB program I've written, too ).

[RXB]

Hey Rich, is there a way to load GPL programs from directly from RXB? (Such as DiskReview)

Well yea you can GPOKE them but no room left in RXB for that, (or very little)

 

You can use my GPL HOW2 videos and packages as I always use RXB.

 

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/153704-ti-994a-development-resources/

 

Go to my GPL HOW2 series.

[RobertLM78]

Well yea you can GPOKE them but no room left in RXB for that, (or very little)

 

You can use my GPL HOW2 videos and packages as I always use RXB.

 

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/153704-ti-994a-development-resources/

 

Go to my GPL HOW2 series.

 

Cool - I will check them out.

 

Actually, I have another question - is there a way to change the cursor in RXB? I don't mind the default behaviour in the command line mode, but I'd like the more classic cursor within running BASIC programs.

[RXB]

 

6 of one and 1/2 a dozen of the other.

 

All of the options mentioned are available in the ubergrom XB v2.7 cart and much more, instantly available from the menu. just waiting for the Grom portion of the cart to be available...

 

What would be really cool is to make RXB compatible with TI XB, get rid of the RXB menu screen that searches all drives so that interrupt driven loaders such as Funnelweb and Boot actually work. While you're at it, restore the correct function of the F8 key, one of the handiest functions of TI XB. I've used the F8 key with EVERY PROGRAM I'VE EVER WRITTEN in XB, to not have that wonderful function available is like cutting off a finger.

 

Gazoo

The whole point was to add Batch as that only cost the REDO buffer and writing in TEXT Based is the new standard vs in TI XB Editor mode. (Text based is much faster to edit using multiple tools.)

Besides in RXB a line is 4 times longer than in normal XB or XB 2.7 as it does not crash and make you use the REDO Key over and over.

 

Not to mention that XB 2.7 does not have BATCH as RXB had it first. Did you add a BATCH file process to XB 2.7?

Like I said a single RXB LOAD program is faster and smaller than any programs you are promoting.

 

By the way RXB can load off of HFDC or SCSI or DISK 1 to 9 unlike XB 2.7 so advancements are good, going backwards is bad.

So going backwards to a worse idea is not really any progress at all.

Edited June 12, 2014 by RXB

[RXB]

 

Cool - I will check them out.

 

Actually, I have another question - is there a way to change the cursor in RXB? I don't mind the default behaviour in the command line mode, but I'd like the more classic cursor within running BASIC programs.

I am pretty sure RXB is the only XB that allows you to do:

 

CALL CHAR(30,"PUT YOUR CHANGE HERE")

[Gazoo]

The whole point was to add Batch as that only cost the REDO buffer and writing in TEXT Based is the new standard vs in TI XB Editor mode. (Text based is much faster to edit using multiple tools.)

Besides in RXB a line is 4 times longer than in normal XB or XB 2.7 as it does not crash and make you use the REDO Key over and over.

 

Not to mention that XB 2.7 does not have BATCH as RXB had it first. Did you add a BATCH file process to XB 2.7?

Like I said a single RXB LOAD program is faster and smaller than any programs you are promoting.

 

By the way RXB can load off of HFDC or SCSI or DISK 1 to 9 unlike XB 2.7 so advancements are good, going backwards is bad.

So going backwards to a worse idea is not really any progress at all.

 

I've tried the batch file examples in RXB, for me I see no advantage or purpose in adding that function. But that's my opinion.

I've never had to use the REDO key over and over and had a crash. That makes no sense, the REDO key just works, and MARVELOUSLY SO.

 

Hmm... press a key and run a 32k program faster than a ramdisk with the ubergrom cart and the xb v2.7 menu, how is RXB faster than that?

And with BOOT, loading of any program file, whether it be XB or EA, is instantly available from a pre-configured menu. This works with

all versions of XB except RXB. It would be a big plus if RXB was compatible with all the other XB versions in this respect, you'd have to restore the original TI Extended Basic startup code in RXB to fix that bug.

 

All XB versions work with HFDC, SCSI, and any DSKx. device. RXB is no different, how is that going forward? Neither bad nor good, but the same.

 

Making RXB incompatible with all other versions of XB is not an advancement in my opinion, it is a regression. Making RXB compatible with

TI Extended Basic (and all other Extended Basics) so that it is compatible with BOOT, Funnelweb, and other interrupt driven loaders would be a wonderful step forward, instead of continuing the entropy of incompatibility with all the other TI Extended Basics and associated loaders.

 

You could have something really, really special if you were to make RXB compatible with all the other TI Extended Basics. It has a lot of really nice features, some even nicer than XB v2.7. Do the right thing and fix those few little things, I guarantee you' ll see how much it's appreciated by the community.

 

Gazoo

Edited June 12, 2014 by Gazoo

[RXB]

 

I've tried the batch file examples in RXB, for me I see no advantage or purpose in adding that function. But that's my opinion.

I've never had to use the REDO key over and over and had a crash. That makes no sense, the REDO key just works, and MARVELOUSLY SO.

 

Hmm... press a key and run a 32k program faster than a ramdisk with the ubergrom cart and the xb v2.7 menu, how is RXB faster than that?

And with BOOT, loading of any program file, whether it be XB or EA, is instantly available from a pre-configured menu. This works with

all versions of XB except RXB. It would be a big plus if RXB was compatible with all the other XB versions in this respect, you'd have to restore the original TI Extended Basic startup code in RXB to fix that bug.

 

All XB versions work with HFDC, SCSI, and any DSKx. device. RXB is no different, how is that going forward? Neither bad nor good, but the same.

 

Making RXB incompatible with all other versions of XB is not an advancement in my opinion, it is a regression. Making RXB compatible with

TI Extended Basic (and all other Extended Basics) so that it is compatible with BOOT, Funnelweb, and other interrupt driven loaders would be a wonderful step forward, instead of continuing the entropy of incompatibility with all the other TI Extended Basics and associated loaders.

 

You could have something really, really special if you were to make RXB compatible with all the other TI Extended Basics. It has a lot of really nice features, some even nicer than XB v2.7. Do the right thing and fix those few little things, I guarantee you' ll see how much it's appreciated by the community.

 

Gazoo

Gazoo

 

It takes less time to load a 1 line XB program 100 CALL EAPGM("DSK7.BOOT")

Then to load a 12K program that first has to do a CALL INT and bunch of other stuff before it does anything at all, let alone then load BOOT and run it.

Same for Funnel Web loader, RXB was faster as only one line 100 CALL EAPGM("DSK6.FW") was my Funnel Web loader.

I did have a Horizon 4000 and RXB in a PGRAM and was much faster than what you imply.

 

From RXB title screen push 7 for BOOT and push 6 for Funnel Web or press 0 (zero) and that load program would load DM2000 for the SCSI drives.

Faster then anyone elses programs as the load program was smaller and faster. The reason I did make them.

 

I am not using a ubergrom cart and do not know what one is, sorry.

 

XB 2.7 does not have a instant single key press to WDS1.LOAD nor does it allow any RAMDISK for XB LOAD programs or EA 5 programs.

XB = press any key 1 to 9 or A to Z for instant run the XB LOAD program off that disk or RAMDISK.

EA = press ENTER then any key 1 to 9 or A to Z and runs EA UTIL1 off of any disk or RAMDISK.

 

This is way faster than you loading a program to load a program. A single line XB 1K program saves space and is much faster than a 12k program.

 

Rich

 

P.S. I guess I could make a video to prove this fact. Just can not get MESS to freaking work yet. I can do that with Classic99 though.

Would give me a chance to test out XB 2.7 so do you have a copy you can put up that would run from Classic99?

[Gazoo]

Gazoo

 

 

Apples And Oranges.

 

I was going to not reply anymore to this thread as I was attempting to discuss apples and was getting responses concerning oranges.

 

Being not one to give up easily, I thought that I'd take another tack in the hopes that my point be understood.

 

First of all, remove XB v2.7 from the discussion, it's not about that. Use good old plain vanilla TI Extended Basic to start.

 

Below is a story about Joe Smith, a guy with a TI.

 

 

Joe Smith loves his TI, he's had it for quite some time and has several upgrades for it. Joe has a SCSI card and hard drive that he uses all the time. Joe also has a TI Extended Basic cartridge plugged in the cartridge slot that he leaves there all the time.

 

When Joe turns on his TI, he has it configured to autorun BOOT, it's a great menu program that lets him do anything he wants on his TI with the press of a single key. There are 24 user configurable menu entries in BOOT that Joe has setup to run everything he needs to.

 

Joe has 100 Extended Basic music programs that he likes to listen to in his 'SCS1.MUSIC.' directory. Joe can press a key from BOOT to load and run the Extended Basic program 'SCS1.MUSIC.LOAD', which is his menu program to choose one of his Extended Basic music programs to listen to. Joe can press another key and run the fine Extended Basic Hex to Decimal to Binary converter program that is at the location 'SCS1.UTILITIES.DECTOHEX'.

 

Joe can also run many of his EA5 programs from the same menu in BOOT. He can press a key and run 'SCS1.UTILITIES.RA', which runs Rag Assembler. He can press a key and run 'SCS1.UTILITIES.RL', which runs Rag Linker. He can press a key and run 'SCS1.FWB.FW', which runs Funnelweb.

 

Joe also has the option of pressing 1, which will catalog any legitimate TI device. He can catalog a floppy he's just gotten and press a key to (V)iew a text file or ®un an Extended Basic or EA5 program file. The catalog function also works on Joe's Horizon Ramdisk and SCSI system. Joe can press 2 to view a text file if he knows the location of the file, or he can similarly press 3 to run an Extended Basic or EA5 file.

 

And since Joe's trusty TI Extended Basic cartridge is plugged into the console slot, he can press 'C' for cartridge and run TI Extended Basic if he wants to write an Extended Basic program.

 

Joe Smith goes along like this happily for years, loving to use his TI, and is quite happy with it.

 

Then Mary Smith, Joe's wife, notices that Joe's birthday is coming soon.

"I'll get Joe something really cool for his TI for his birthday! He'll love it!", Mary says.

So Mary does a little research and sees that there's 4 new versions of his beloved Extended Basic cartridge that are being released. They are 'Super Extended Basic', 'Extended Basic 3', 'Extended Basic v2.7', and 'RXB'. Mary can't choose, so she buys Joe all 4 cartridges!

 

Joe is ecstatic! He sits down at his TI with his 4 brand new cartridges, unplugs his trusty old TI Extended Basic cartridge and plugs in the Super Extended Basic cartridge. He fires up his TI and tries it out. Everything works fine. He can load all the programs he loaded before and they run fine. He can even create new and better Extended Basic programs because of the new commands in his Super Extended Basic cartridge.

 

Next Joe tries out the Extended Basic 3 cartridge. He fires up his TI and tries it out. Everything works fine. He can load all the programs he loaded before and they run fine. He can even create new and better Extended Basic programs because of the new commands in his Extended Basic 3 cartridge.

 

Next Joe tries out the Extended Basic v2.7 cartridge. He fires up his TI and tries it out. Everything works fine. He can load all the programs he loaded before and they run fine. He can even create new and better Extended Basic programs because of the new commands in his Extended Basic v2.7 cartridge.

 

Next Joe tries out the RXB cartridge. He fires up his TI and tries it out. Joe presses the key from BOOT to run the Extended Basic program 'SCS1.MUSIC.LOAD'.

NOOOOOO!!!!!!

Joe has to turn off his TI as the monitor let out an awful sound and the screen went crazy!!!!!!!!!

 

Joe takes the RXB cartridge and puts it in a shoebox on top of the closet, never to be used again.

 

 

 

So I hope that this story about Joe and Mary Smith has allowed the light bulb to light up. It seems that it would not be too difficult to fix this bug in RXB. Restoring the original TI Extended Basic startup code to it's proper location in RXB would restore compatibility with the other Extended Basics. If it's so important that the current RXB menu be retained, another menu entry in addition to the standard one could be added with that code moved to a different location.

 

So, can the discussion about apples continue, or am I going to hear about oranges again?

 

Gazoo

Edited June 13, 2014 by Gazoo

[RXB]

Gazoo

 

Lack of knowing how something works is not a bug in that software.

See the problem is that Boot uses a bug in XB to execute the XB programs.

In RXB I removed this bug, so yea the BOOT program will fail as that BUG is no longer there.

 

But to blame RXB for removing a bug is rather silly to say the least.

I can see you prefer the bug in XB so Boot functions, but you refuse to acknowledge fixing the BOOT bug.

You can look at the RXB source code and see the bug yourself that BOOT is using.

 

So how about fix BOOT and FW LOADERS that use the XB bug instead of telling me to put the BUG back into RXB.

 

Rich

 

P.S. Other LOAD XB programs work fine with RXB as these do not USE THE BUG!

Edited June 14, 2014 by RXB

[Gazoo]

Gazoo

 

Lack of knowing how something works is not a bug in that software.

See the problem is that Boot uses a bug in XB to execute the XB programs.

In RXB I removed this bug, so yea the BOOT program will fail as that BUG is no longer there.

 

But to blame RXB for removing a bug is rather silly to say the least.

I can see you prefer the bug in XB so Boot functions, but you refuse to acknowledge fixing the BOOT bug.

You can look at the RXB source code and see the bug yourself that BOOT is using.

 

So how about fix BOOT and FW LOADERS that use the XB bug instead of telling me to put the BUG back into RXB.

 

Rich

 

P.S. Other LOAD XB programs work fine with RXB as these do not USE THE BUG!

 

Oranges.

[+Ksarul]

Rich, I think what Gazoo is trying to get to here hs nothing to do with RXB per se. It has to do with making sure that code maintains compatibility across various versions so as not to make the programmers of the world tear their hair out in frustration or have them ignore a very capable tool because it isn't compatible with all of their other tools. The point being made is that the programmers of all other versions of XB took care to keep that entry point working the same way it did in the TI Extended BASIC module. If it is possible to correct the "bug" without affecting the behavior of the entry point--then that is what needs to happen here with RXB. It is an issue of compatibility, not one of programming prowess. You fixed a bug and that is a wonderful thing--but it broke a goodly number of utilities and programs that use that functionality--utilities that existed long before RXB was available. Saying fix everything else because I fixed this bug and broke all of your programs isn't a constructive answer--try and find a middle ground that fixes the bug without breaking things. . .please. I am glad you found the bug--but can you make things work like they did when the bug was present? That is all we ask here. Thank you for reading all of this--and thank you for writing RXB.

[Gazoo]

Rich, I think what Gazoo is trying to get to here hs nothing to do with RXB per se. It has to do with making sure that code maintains compatibility across various versions so as not to make the programmers of the world tear their hair out in frustration or have them ignore a very capable tool because it isn't compatible with all of their other tools. The point being made is that the programmers of all other versions of XB took care to keep that entry point working the same way it did in the TI Extended BASIC module. If it is possible to correct the "bug" without affecting the behavior of the entry point--then that is what needs to happen here with RXB. It is an issue of compatibility, not one of programming prowess. You fixed a bug and that is a wonderful thing--but it broke a goodly number of utilities and programs that use that functionality--utilities that existed long before RXB was available. Saying fix everything else because I fixed this bug and broke all of your programs isn't a constructive answer--try and find a middle ground that fixes the bug without breaking things. . .please. I am glad you found the bug--but can you make things work like they did when the bug was present? That is all we ask here. Thank you for reading all of this--and thank you for writing RXB.

 

Wow. You're good.

 

If I ever get arrested I want you to be my lawyer.

 

Gazoo

[RXB]

Rich, I think what Gazoo is trying to get to here hs nothing to do with RXB per se. It has to do with making sure that code maintains compatibility across various versions so as not to make the programmers of the world tear their hair out in frustration or have them ignore a very capable tool because it isn't compatible with all of their other tools. The point being made is that the programmers of all other versions of XB took care to keep that entry point working the same way it did in the TI Extended BASIC module. If it is possible to correct the "bug" without affecting the behavior of the entry point--then that is what needs to happen here with RXB. It is an issue of compatibility, not one of programming prowess. You fixed a bug and that is a wonderful thing--but it broke a goodly number of utilities and programs that use that functionality--utilities that existed long before RXB was available. Saying fix everything else because I fixed this bug and broke all of your programs isn't a constructive answer--try and find a middle ground that fixes the bug without breaking things. . .please. I am glad you found the bug--but can you make things work like they did when the bug was present? That is all we ask here. Thank you for reading all of this--and thank you for writing RXB.

Thanks Ksarul

 

Back when RXB was introduced I contacted Tony Mcgovern and others in the TI community in Micropendium about the LOADER BUG.

Matter of fact in Micropendium I addressed this problem openly and some responded with a fix. Others did not and remained broken.

See the problem is that these loaders use a hard coded address that is not even a TI standard set by any loaders.

They use a BUGGED ADDRESS exploit as if that is a standard.

A simple patch to FW or Boot fixes the bugged address they use. I published this in Micropenduim many many years ago.

RXB is not the problem, not fixing the BUG is the problem.

 

I understand they want to continue to use this BUG as if it is valid. How about you patch the offending programs that are in error.

People complain about bugs all the time, odd the this time people insist on using one?

 

Want backwards compatibility? Patch bugged software and that fixes issues, do not tell fixed software to patch bugs back in.

Do I need to dig up the patch needed to fix this issue in these bugged loaders?

[+Ksarul]

Having the permanent fix code is nice Rich--but that wasn't the point here. Which is easier: to modify ONE program and make all programs work again, or to modify MANY programs to make them conform to the changes in one? That was why I asked if you could move to a middle ground: fix the bug but keep the entry point at the old, hard-coded address. Then EVERYONE is happy and RXB gets more use too.

 

Please let us see the patch code too, as that would be an interesting read.

[+InsaneMultitasker]

Please let us see the patch code too, as that would be an interesting read.

Agreed. I do not recall ever hearing about this bug.

[TI-Sissy]

didn't someone complain when a new video upgrade did not maintain old standards, but now it's okay for a basic not to maintain them? i don't get it.

Edited June 14, 2014 by TI-Sissy

[RobertLM78]

I'd like to see the articles and responses. I think it's silly myself for programs to keep using an exploit which isn't standard (although I don't know much about these programs load, but if it is using an exploit, that doesn't seem like a good standard to keep, IMO).

[RXB]

Anyone have the Source Code of BOOT and FunnelWeb XB to EA5 loaders?

 

Way back over 10 years ago I had the code and posted the fix in Micropendium.