gozar Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 Looking over the old playpower.org* information, I got to wondering if it would be possible to use our beloved 8-bit as a base for the device instead of a NoaC. This would give it a rich base of software to begin with. But I don't know if you could emulate an A8 cheaply enough (production cost would have to be in the $2-$5 range). Rights to an OS would need to be secured, but Turbo Basic is in the public domain. The C64 DTV would also be a good starting point, but I like the A8 better. :-) *PlayPower started out in 2009 with a $12 keyboard computer: http://www.wired.com/2009/03/12-computers-ba/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gorgh Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 playpower and bunch of similar nes hardware emulators are based on a special chip that was designed to emulate NES to make use of cheap carts that floaded the market. Even Atari Flashback is based afaik on the very same chip. Making a cheap substitute of Atari computer would require a lot of work and money spent on designing such piece of hardware. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMR Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 The A8 on an FPGA that already exists would be a good starting point, but keeping the cost of a custom board down... that's not easy. The various DTV projects manage it through mass production and cost reducing the hardware as much as possible, but for smaller product runs you don't have the option and it's going to be more expensive. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gozar Posted June 28, 2014 Author Share Posted June 28, 2014 Looking at the different retail options, the Pi is probably the best deal. After adding everything needed it's still $50 though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynxpro Posted June 29, 2014 Share Posted June 29, 2014 (edited) Leave it to the tech press to forget about the A8... And let us not forget Curt Vendel created a single chip A8 as a proposed Atari Flashback model but Infotari rejected it. Edited June 29, 2014 by Lynxpro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gozar Posted June 29, 2014 Author Share Posted June 29, 2014 Was the single chip completed? What's to stop someone from producing it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynxpro Posted June 29, 2014 Share Posted June 29, 2014 Was the single chip completed? What's to stop someone from producing it? You'd have to ask Curt about that. Atari copyright, intellectual property, etc. it would be pretty cool to see Atari become the standard of the third world but then all of the existing software would require translating. China would probably embrace simple computers for their citizens that didn't use the internet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foft Posted June 29, 2014 Share Posted June 29, 2014 I understood Curt made a 7800 clone, not an XL clone? Do you have a source for that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricortes Posted June 29, 2014 Share Posted June 29, 2014 Except for rabid fans, such as ourselves , it wouldn't make sense. There are literally dozens of sellers for ~PMPs that offer much more capability and low prices that haven't exactly dominated the world. A good example would be http://www.ebay.com/itm/Promotions-New-4G-4GB-4-3-LCD-MP3-MP4-MP5-PMP-Game-Player-Camera-w-Package-/271321937661?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f2c0c36fd I've been buying different PMPs for quite a while. I think the first time I needed a flash drive and found out PMPs were about the same price. The one here runs an NES emulator and works quite well with most ROMs. There's also newer ones that run SNES emulators. Point being the Nintendo platform was more popular then the Atari and even with that, you don't see these very often. I used to carry mine with me often until smart cell phones came down in price. So if something that functions as a 4 gig thumb drive, camera, DVR, portable NES, digital picture frame, SD card reader, built in LCD and composite video out, MP3/4 player, eBook reader, FM radio, et cetera isn't popular an Atari version doesn't stand a chance. To be fair, my grand kids do love the NES emulator and I've used it in the last week hooked up to my stereo as an MP3 player. I guess the point one I am trying to make is: No matter how much fun or utility is built into a device, if the general public does not adapt to it, it makes no sense economically. There can't be a lot of profit built into a $26.88 device. Point two would be I don't expect a lot of people outside of our community to be willing to do this for free. Hmmmm, I may have to get one with an SNES emulator, Mario Karts... BTW: The one I mostly use is ~400 MHz ARM based. Seems to run a version of Linux and of course you can develop your own NES carts to play on it. I've also played a 'native' game someone wrote in ARM assembly language. => someone could port an Atari emulator to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matej Posted June 29, 2014 Share Posted June 29, 2014 I am trying to port a800 emulator on 24euro arm board running debian... google olimex olinuxino imx233 micro... I will post here photos and sd image... There will be 5usd x86 intel soc for tablets made by rockchip so 10usd or 20usd single board computers with altirra small like pi will be possible... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oky2000 Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 I don't think ANY of the classic 8 bit machines from that era can be developed and made production ready for anything like the cheap options available right now. I too bought one of those PSP knock-offs for 25 bucks including postage and the screen on it has to be about 10 buck because it is excellent. So for 10 bucks you have something that is powerful enough to emulate a Gameboy Advance and play Mario Kart Advance etc pretty smoothly. This added to the fact such boards clearly are full 24 bit any colour anywhere you like on the screen and fully 16bit audio equipped means sadly we are never going to con some third world country to be playing Archon or Monty Mole ever again. BUT I don't see why there is no room in the market for a DTV style product for Amstrad or A8 etc for around 30 bucks. The DTV had a very tight budget and was already pretty much done....it was just a cost cutting issue compared to the C-ONE computer Jeri was working with as a basis for her ASICs etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fibrewire Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 I don't think ANY of the classic 8 bit machines from that era can be developed and made production ready for anything like the cheap options available right now. You're right - that's what KICKSTARTER is for Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phredreeke Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 I never heard of Playpower before, but I'm skeptical. For one thing, you can't program new software on the system itself, so users are dependent on the manufacturer for new software. Also, I think you're setting the bar too low. It's like diminishing returns in reverse, the Raspberry Pi is something like a thousand times more powerful than the 8-bit systems you talk about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fibrewire Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Also, I think you're setting the bar too low. It's like diminishing returns in reverse, the Raspberry Pi is something like a thousand times more powerful than the 8-bit systems you talk about. Raspberry Pi is great for controlling things, but a general purpose 8-bit CPU and 64K ram is better at bridging the gap between electronics theory and modern computing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phredreeke Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Raspberry Pi is great for controlling things, but a general purpose 8-bit CPU and 64K ram is better at bridging the gap between electronics theory and modern computing. Yes, but then you're looking at something along the lines of the ZX81 or the Serbian Galaksija, not a ready built computer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Gemintronic Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Playpower had a great idea in subverting the dirt cheap NoaCs into low end computers. They just never had much follow through. Eventually they started trying to focus on the software side and then got sidetracked with not using NoaCs.. sigh. Personally disappointing was a never finished project to make Scratch into something that could produce NES games. That alone could have made it easy for volunteers to make useful software. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariNerd Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 If we are going to have pipe dreams, we need to do it with a certain pinache. The only real way you might manage to sneak classic 8-bit systems into new silicon and get them out to broader markets,nowadays, would be to slip them in as an Easter egg, in a product you know would sell somewhat well, like a PSWiiBox, using some extra chip real-estate. The system designer/s would have to be discreet, not mention it to higher-ups., not mention it for several years, if possible, but keep the "hidden" system in the architecture as long as possible, or at least until they leave or get booted off the production team. Have it accesable by entering a code in some service menu. When you finally leave the company, "leak" the information. Highly improbable, a bit conspiratorial, a bit Cloak and Dagger-y, but a fun scenario. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 There exists a homebrew 8-bit video game console, but it comes as a DIY kit and costs more than $10 http://belogic.com/uzebox/index.asp 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popmilo Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 There exists a homebrew 8-bit video game console, but it comes as a DIY kit and costs more than $10 http://belogic.com/uzebox/index.asp Uzebox is looking great! Found this one also: http://rossumblog.com/2010/10/25/building-the-rbox/ Features: 320x240 composite or s-video output generated entirely in software 256 colors with standard palette, up to 8k colors 8 bit 15khz stereo audio ~$1 Joystick ~$1 CPU Note: Rbox works with only embedded RAM (in 2010 it was 4-8Kb), so for 'propper' computer you would need to add ram chip... My opinion is that hardware is not a problem (rbox project is from 2010, better ICs are available today). As always, it's matter of developers time, passion and energy... I have a RaspberryPi in my drawer next to me and haven't touched it from October for lack of time and 'not cool enough project' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gozar Posted July 3, 2014 Author Share Posted July 3, 2014 I have a RaspberryPi in my drawer next to me and haven't touched it from October for lack of time and 'not cool enough project' Probably the only hobbyiest way of going forward is emulation on the Pi. Bring out the GPIO pins to DB9 sockets for joysticks (no analog for paddles though :-(). Too bad Atari800 doesn't have support for the VBXE. Stuff it into an A8 case and hook up the keyboard. BTW, is there anything like this: http://www.vesalia.de/e_keyrahv2[8238].htm for the Atari? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phredreeke Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Wait, are we talking about a cheap computer alternative for the third world, or are we talking about a hobby kit? You can sell a hobby kit that relies on the owner already having a modern functional computer for programming. Making a computer for the third world brings up a whole different set of requirements (as demonstrated by the OLPC project) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foft Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 (edited) Only need a capacitor and a couple of resistors (+ maybe a diode) to connect paddles to gpio. I did this with the DE1. As for keyboards - using an original a8 keyboard means ripping apart a machine. Also I gather the connectors are in short supply from a recent thread. So PS2 or USB + stickers? New ones are more ergonomic anyway:) I think the main difficulty with doing a new a8 is getting the license from Atari (to use their brand) for a reasonable price. The next big problem is getting stores to stock it... Even then $20 with case+ keyboard is not realistic. Edited July 3, 2014 by foft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesD Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 The only way to get close to that price point is with a custom asic and large scale production of the product in China.Ask Jerry Elseworth how that worked out with the C64 in a Joystick.If I remember right, those started out at $40 but they eventually sold for $20. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tickled_Pink Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 Uzebox is looking great! Found this one also: http://rossumblog.com/2010/10/25/building-the-rbox/ Features: 320x240 composite or s-video output generated entirely in software 256 colors with standard palette, up to 8k colors 8 bit 15khz stereo audio ~$1 Joystick ~$1 CPU Note: Rbox works with only embedded RAM (in 2010 it was 4-8Kb), so for 'propper' computer you would need to add ram chip... My opinion is that hardware is not a problem (rbox project is from 2010, better ICs are available today). As always, it's matter of developers time, passion and energy... I have a RaspberryPi in my drawer next to me and haven't touched it from October for lack of time and 'not cool enough project' From the same site: http://rossumblog.com/2014/04/29/zorkduino/ Might have a go at that. It shows what's possible with an Arduino. I imported a couple of Arduino kits a few weeks ago to resell on eBay but haven't got around to doing anything with them yet. After seeing the SIO2Arduino project I'm considering keeping one for myself. According to this project, it'll run Zork at about the same speed as an A8. So an Arduino is probably as close as you're going to get to a sub $20 8-bit computer. But this is the most amazing thing I've ever seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foft Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 (edited) This is pretty neat. It isn't too far over the target! http://obsolescenceguaranteed.blogspot.co.uk/2014/03/retro-fpga-grant-searles-multicomp.html?m=1 http://searle.hostei.com/grant/Multicomp/index.html I've got one of these $20 boards around but not connected it up yet. Edited July 6, 2014 by foft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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