An Intellivision Fan's Message to Current Developers

[mdoerty]

Not usual or not unusual? I think you meant the latter. :-)

 

I usually try to have orders out the door within a week of receiving them. There have been a few (ok, more than a few) that went a few weeks. Oops. And then there's slow, expensive overseas shipping.

 

There was a short stretch there where all my PayPal messages got "sorted" for me in a folder I never look in, which really messed with me. I think that's fixed now.

Yes. Cursed iPad keyboard. And most people do my reasonably good job. But one reason that there are relatively few new/homebrew Intellivision releases is that the system has some unique technical requirements and because almost everyone wants the game in retail condition (box, book, overlay, plus cart). This is not other systems where people dump out loose cart/a on a regular basis.

[+intvsteve]

It seems that in the past couple years, the dam has burst, so to speak. I think that because of the higher investment needed to overcome that technical barrier just to make a cart, it's a natural progression to go 'full Cadillac' on the releases. It's also close to the heart of the system. Look at the early games like NFL Football, MLB, Space Battle, etc. Being closer to computer-style games, you kinda needed those overlays and manuals, and somewhere to keep them.

 

What's funny is that when a game is released that doesn't really require such treatment (e.g. Old School), we're all so hidebound to the full package now that it's a BFD if a game isn't released that way. Luckily, we've got a community with some really dedicated members ready to step up and make these things happen. (Thanks again, Soulbuster!)

 

Another one of those aspects is the willingness of those with the knowledge to help out w/ the Tech. Chad, Joe, Scott, William, Frank, Carl, Dave and likely so many others (sorry to those I forget!) have been ready and willing to help out those willing to ask questions. It's taken awhile, but thanks to all that dedication and effort, it sure looks like it's snowballed, with CollectorVision coming on board, and who knows what's still to come?

[+cmart604]

Actually, Nintendo used to limit companies to five games per year on the NES. Maybe we could pout a group in change and limit each manufacturer to two. j/k

Maybe put Rev and I in charge of limiting the releases.....on second thought, that might not work.

[+DZ-Jay]

It seems that in the past couple years, the dam has burst, so to speak. I think that because of the higher investment needed to overcome that technical barrier just to make a cart, it's a natural progression to go 'full Cadillac' on the releases. It's also close to the heart of the system. Look at the early games like NFL Football, MLB, Space Battle, etc. Being closer to computer-style games, you kinda needed those overlays and manuals, and somewhere to keep them.

 

What's funny is that when a game is released that doesn't really require such treatment (e.g. Old School), we're all so hidebound to the full package now that it's a BFD if a game isn't released that way. Luckily, we've got a community with some really dedicated members ready to step up and make these things happen. (Thanks again, Soulbuster!)

 

Another one of those aspects is the willingness of those with the knowledge to help out w/ the Tech. Chad, Joe, Scott, William, Frank, Carl, Dave and likely so many others (sorry to those I forget!) have been ready and willing to help out those willing to ask questions. It's taken awhile, but thanks to all that dedication and effort, it sure looks like it's snowballed, with CollectorVision coming on board, and who knows what's still to come?

 

I released my game CIB in all fancy regalia--and will continue to do so--because my works represent the realisation of a childhood dream and the culmination of my efforts; and I will continue to take personal pride in giving them a royal treatment. That may not be the same for everyone, though.

 

What I would like to see is more participation in the Intellivision Programming forum and the IntvProg list. That will surely do more to expand our community than just ROM releases. Don't get me wrong, having more games is always good, but I think the Intellivision community deserves a larger home-brew scene where more people can explore and play with the platform just for the fun of it.

 

-dZ.

[Troy_Whelan]

 

Unfortunately, I don't think that some people understand the numbers of things needed to print to get cost down to a reasonable number.

 

I printed 750 Old School cartridge stickers.....why? Because 150 (what I actually needed) was the SAME exact price as 750. Why would I not take the larger quantity? When we did the CIB version, I'm having people complain that I am not making the cart only versions 'unique' by printing a new sticker. Sorry, but I'm not keen to throw away $150 just to do that. With quality comes cost. Low numbers printed do not shrink the cost. All the cost is in the printer set up not the paper.

 

That is why I threw in a sticker with every cartridge sold.....I STILL have enough stickers to do CIB versions. I don't think I'll ever need to do another print run unless they get damaged.

 

My cutting die for the box and Overlays ran slightly over $2000 combined by the way.

Willie,

 

You are correct in that some, perhaps most, do not understand the multiple variables behind the scenes the can affect costs. I include myself in that group.

 

In an earlier thread when I asked the question about a unique label I was unaware of the minimum quantity of 750 for the same cost as 150. Knowing that now (and shortly after I posted my question) your responses made sense, however most of us are not on the inner circle around the cost / production of these things and I did not know at the time. I am sorry that my pursuing that question offended you, as that was never my intention. I simply wanted to make a suggestion and hopefully have it pursued since if the cost needed to be incurred regardless (as I thought) then it seemed like a logical suggestion to have a unique set of labels. No need to re-debate this as that is not my intent either. I fully understand your decision to use existing labels and why the decision was made. My only point here was to publicly apologize. I have always tried to help the home-brew community and the developers / producers in particular. In this case I was puzzled and simply made a suggestion that was not deemed useful and was not pursued.

 

Troy

[Games For Your Intellivision]

Willie,

 

You are correct in that some, perhaps most, do not understand the multiple variables behind the scenes the can affect costs. I include myself in that group.

 

In an earlier thread when I asked the question about a unique label I was unaware of the minimum quantity of 750 for the same cost as 150. Knowing that now (and shortly after I posted my question) your responses made sense, however most of us are not on the inner circle around the cost / production of these things and I did not know at the time. I am sorry that my pursuing that question offended you, as that was never my intention. I simply wanted to make a suggestion and hopefully have it pursued since if the cost needed to be incurred regardless (as I thought) then it seemed like a logical suggestion to have a unique set of labels. No need to re-debate this as that is not my intent either. I fully understand your decision to use existing labels and why the decision was made. My only point here was to publicly apologize. I have always tried to help the home-brew community and the developers / producers in particular. In this case I was puzzled and simply made a suggestion that was not deemed useful and was not pursued.

 

Troy

 

Troy, Thanks for this message. However, it really isn't personal. I wasn't greatly offended at YOU. I was however, a little disappointed in the failure of many people to grasp the situation....you just being one of them. Obviously, these public disclosures will help people understand where we are coming from. Producing games is a balancing act between quality, quantity and price.

 

When I opened up my business, I got a merchant credit card account. One of the 'rules' is that you don't take payment for product unless you have it in hand ready to ship. And I didn't.

 

However, I used PayPal with Old School. I had orders open for 2-3 months. When orders closed, I shipped the product. There was no 'delay'. If someone wanted to order copies on the last day, they could have. I wasn't going to 'run out'. I will NEVER sell another loose cartridge of Old School. That was the promise then and it remains that way. If SoulBuster had not financed the boxes, they would have been very very rare. It is a model that works and I will be using it again, because frankly, losing money on these will put me out of business pretty quickly.

 

I really don't know what to say to people who think that we are 'flooding the market' except...buy what you want. I didn't invite Collectorvision into the Intellivision market. They came by themselves. I don't mind the competition and will probably buy a couple of their games when I move. However I am not leaving. Nor am I going to cut back because of it. The market determines if I keep making games. I feel bad that some people are stressed because they are OCD and can't NOT buy them. I'm not responsible for that.

[Games For Your Intellivision]

 

I released my game CIB in all fancy regalia--and will continue to do so--because my works represent the realisation of a childhood dream and the culmination of my efforts; and I will continue to take personal pride in giving them a royal treatment. That may not be the same for everyone, though.

 

What I would like to see is more participation in the Intellivision Programming forum and the IntvProg list. That will surely do more to expand our community than just ROM releases. Don't get me wrong, having more games is always good, but I think the Intellivision community deserves a larger home-brew scene where more people can explore and play with the platform just for the fun of it.

 

-dZ.

 

 

I agree dZ. I would like to see more people trying to make games. It sure would allow a lot more cool things to be done. I especially am looking forward to seeing what people can do with the USB connection on LTO Flash!

[Troy_Whelan]

 

... I was however, a little disappointed in the failure of many people to grasp the situation....

 

I really don't know what to say to people who think that we are 'flooding the market' except...buy what you want. I didn't invite Collectorvision into the Intellivision market. They came by themselves. I don't mind the competition and will probably buy a couple of their games when I move. However I am not leaving. Nor am I going to cut back because of it. The market determines if I keep making games. I feel bad that some people are stressed because they are OCD and can't NOT buy them. I'm not responsible for that.

With the first comment above, it was just a confusing situation. One that evolved unexpectedly combined with gamers having a lack of inside knowledge and many possible ways of handling Old School. I think people in the end understood, however still wished it was different. I can understand both sides, and in the end we will have a nice game.

 

For the second comment, I personally like the volume and variety of games that are coming out. Granted it does require everyone that wants to participate to set aside funds, however those that cannot do so for a particular game can either trade a game with someone later or be able to buy the ROM if they have the LTO-Flash! That flash cart adds a lot to those wanting to play all but have limited funds.

[+intvsteve]

Troy, a huge hat tip to you. It takes a lot to do what you did. I think that sometimes we all get frustrated when points of view just miss meeting - a big problem in online communication.

[doctorclu]

Since I started this thread, I 'll just touch on what has been brought up and my view as a buyer:

 

Flooding the market: Certainly saw where that was coming from, but as a buyer I would have to say, keep the games coming. Honestly every game that has come out has not been my style. I got interested in Intellivision after playing Space Patrol and DK and thought "Now this is cool". I tend to like arcade style games the rest generally aren't my style. But that is alright, someone else probably loves them.

 

If you collect all of Intellivision, which I decided I cannot, then that might be challenging to collect all that is coming out.

 

Pay in advance/Pre-order: Still say it is a bad idea. But if you are to do it, keep to the posted scheduled ship date. IF something comes up to delay those shipping dates, make sure you give your customers a heads up and an estimate of what you are looking at for the new ship date.

 

Don't make your customers have to seek you out for an update.

 

I believe what I have said above is a very reasonable bit of advice to the developers selling games.

 

Keep those lines of communication open, don't keep your customer in the dark about delays.

[+Gemintronic]

 

 

I agree dZ. I would like to see more people trying to make games. It sure would allow a lot more cool things to be done. I especially am looking forward to seeing what people can do with the USB connection on LTO Flash!

 

I think the LTO Flash! would be a big help to me. I sent a PM for details on where to pre-order/order.

 

Could Paddle Party be a purchasable download for LTO Flash! devices? I'm sure that would help recoup some of the costs.

[Games For Your Intellivision]

Pay in advance/Pre-order: Still say it is a bad idea. But if you are to do it, keep to the posted scheduled ship date. IF something comes up to delay those shipping dates, make sure you give your customers a heads up and an estimate of what you are looking at for the new ship date.

 

Don't make your customers have to seek you out for an update.

 

I believe what I have said above is a very reasonable bit of advice to the developers selling games.

 

Keep those lines of communication open, don't keep your customer in the dark about delays.

 

Regarding 'keep to the posted scheduled ship date'.......Ummmm you MUST not be talking about me. I've never missed a scheduled ship date.

 

I think you want to be posting this to a different game producer.

[Games For Your Intellivision]

 

I think the LTO Flash! would be a big help to me. I sent a PM for details on where to pre-order/order.

 

Could Paddle Party be a purchasable download for LTO Flash! devices? I'm sure that would help recoup some of the costs.

 

 

Certainly digital sales will help break even. I've addressed that in the Project L thread.

[+Gemintronic]

 

 

Certainly digital sales will help break even. I've addressed that in the Project L thread.

 

Thank you for the response! Is there a particular post that answers how to pre-order/order the LTO-Flash? The topic is now 11 pages long and Google isn't helping. I think this product would greatly encourage my efforts to develop for the Intellivision!

 

UPDATE: Deleted my PM as you are a busy man and answered my question here. Thanks again!

[+JasonlikesINTV]

 

Thank you for the response! Is there a particular post that answers how to pre-order/order the LTO-Flash? The topic is now 11 pages long and Google isn't helping. I think this product would greatly encourage my efforts to develop for the Intellivision!

No ordering details yet. Should be available at CGE. After that, I'm guessing through LTO site/order page since it's an LTO product. I'm sure more details will come out closer to September.

[Games For Your Intellivision]

 

Thank you for the response! Is there a particular post that answers how to pre-order/order the LTO-Flash? The topic is now 11 pages long and Google isn't helping. I think this product would greatly encourage my efforts to develop for the Intellivision!

 

Joe will be selling LTO Flash! on the LTO Order page. We will be putting the cartridge on the Elektronite page and linking to the order page. As well, we intend to post info and facebook links to ordering, as well as posting information on Atari Age, Retro Video Gamer UK, Digital Press and others.

 

The cartridge is going to debut at CGE, but should be available mail order at the same time.

 

The cartridge will retail for $119 US plus shipping and handling. It will come with a box, minimal manual and a USB cable will be included.

[Rev]

Hey, the colecovision hit like 20 homebrew releases last year.

 

No one should complain about too many intv releases.

 

The year is half over and how many have been released or had money taken in a pre order so far?

 

Maybe 8? :-) we must beat the Cv record!!!

[+intvsteve]

Hey, the colecovision hit like 20 homebrew releases last year.

 

No one should complain about too many intv releases.

 

The year is half over and how many have been released or had money taken in a pre order so far?

 

Maybe 8? :-) we must beat the Cv record!!!

 

My ColecoVision is pretty flakey, and I've never bought any homebrews for it. How many are new games, and how many are hacks?

 

OK, now, back on topic (sort of)... William has covered how LTO Flash! will be ordered, et. al. I anticipate we'll put download links for the software as well. Guess I do need to write that stuff up at some point. I'll have similar content on my site. Links to order, etc.

[doctorclu]

 

Regarding 'keep to the posted scheduled ship date'.......Ummmm you MUST not be talking about me. I've never missed a scheduled ship date.

 

I think you want to be posting this to a different game producer.

 

If I led you to believe that I was talking about you specifically that is simply not the case.

 

I have made sure not to mention specific situations, just sharing my observations based on what I have seen in general and what I have experienced in general. Nothing more.

[voltron]

My ColecoVision is pretty flakey, and I've never bought any homebrews for it. How many are new games, and how many are hacks?

 

OK, now, back on topic (sort of)... William has covered how LTO Flash! will be ordered, et. al. I anticipate we'll put download links for the software as well. Guess I do need to write that stuff up at some point. I'll have similar content on my site. Links to order, etc.

Your Coleco? Thats contraband and must be destroyed.

[+intvsteve]

Your Coleco? Thats contraband and must be destroyed.

That seems to be happening naturally.

[intvnut]

That seems to be happening naturally.

 

*chuckle*

 

The TMS9928A / TMS9128 VDPs really want a clean power supply and a stable clock. My TI-99/4As also got very glitchy over the years, and I hear a capacitor swap usually cleans them right up. For the Colecovisions, I hear that the power switch itself is a source of much of the joy.

 

Not that I would know... I don't own The System Of The Enemy.

[voltron]

That seems to be happening naturally.

Just take a sledge hammer to it and put it out of its misery,

[+JasonlikesINTV]

Your Coleco? Thats contraband and must be destroyed.

Classic Voltron

[+cmart604]

Classic Voltron

Lol! That's exactly what I was thinking. It's been a while....