How did the Jaguar possibly sell so poorly?

[high voltage]

America is to blame

[ruimtemuis]

I got a Jaguar at launch (had it shipped to South Africa) and it has remained one of my favourite consoles to this day. In my opinion, many of the games were excellent, there were far too few of them however, especially in the first year or so.

 

I also had a 3DO, Neo Geo, Megadrive, FM Towns Marty, PC Engine and plenty of others at the time. The Jaguar offered a very different gaming experience to the more "Japanese" consoles, which I happened to like.

 

However I would have to agree that Atari no longer had the necessary ressources to compete at the time, which is probably the main reason why it could not have done much better than it did.

 

I really enjoy the Jaguar, just my opinion.

[Bill Loguidice]

It's fair to say that one can enjoy a system while still acknowledging its failings. The one frustration with discussing anything Jaguar is that there are some genuinely defensive people out there.

 

From my perspective, while I have a large Jaguar collection, it's mostly disappointing to me for a variety of reasons. With that said, there are certain games that I really love on it, like the port of Wolfenstein 3D and Tempest 2k with a spinner. While I wouldn't necessarily recommend the system to someone who doesn't absolutely know what they're getting into, if you pick the right games and avoid the obvious disasters (Bubsy, Highlander, etc.), there's no denying you can have great fun with it, particularly when, in my opinion, you can avoid the awful 3 button controller and use the wonderful 6 button pro controller.

[Rhomaios]

The Jaguar too was not on my radar in the early 90s. Nintendo and Sega were everything until the PS1 came along. Not the N64, which I owned before getting a PS1, but in particular the cinematic screens from Final Fantasy VII was what first blew my mind. Everything up until then was just progressively better, yet feeling naturally evolved.

 

I still don't see a reason to own one. As doctorclu and wood_jl stated, "It's the games, stupid!" Not only could you get better games elsewhere, and you can get the same games elsewhere better. Now that I know that I can get Tempest 2000 on the Saturn, I really have no need at all for a Jaguar.

[Gregory DG]

Possibly, but it still sold far less than the Game Gear, which ended up selling in excess of 10 million units and still wasn't a patch on GameBoy sales

 

True, but it was a good start. Atari could have built on that. Imagine.... Atari could haven been known as the "handheld game company." I would have been okay with that.

 

And, if it made them a profit (even if they weren't #1) they would have been better off than losing the whole company and selling to JTS.

[BassGuitari]

The only place I can remember seeing Jaguar stuff sold was at Walmart. I remember seeing the Jaguar display (next to the SNES and Genesis displays; I forget if PS1/Saturn were there yet) in 1995, when I was 10. I'd only read about the Jaguar otherwise, in GamePro and EGM and the like. I had a Genesis and NES at the time, as did everyone else I knew (or a SNES). For us, the Jaguar belonged to that "other" group of exotic consoles, the ones we'd only heard about but, for all we knew, nobody actually owned. Like the 3DO or NeoGeo.

I don't think my local Walmart had a Jaguar set up to play, or I would remember trying the demo unit. (Unless it was THAT forgettable.) In any event, the only reaction I remember having to it was "Wow, it DOES exist!" and wondering what the games were like. I also wondered why it didn't have Street Fighter II or Mortal Kombat or other games people were flipping out over at the time (I didn't understand what licensing and third-parties and all that stuff meant). So I was left curious about the Jaguar, but was happy with my Sega and the new games coming out for it. And when PlayStation hit, I forgot all about the Jaguar.

(Anecdotally, our local Walmart had this one NOS Jaguar controller stashed in the back of a shelf in the electronics department for years after they stopped selling Jag stuff. My brother finally bought it in, like, 2002 shortly after he got a Jaguar from Telegames.)

[MAYAman]

The Jaguar too was not on my radar in the early 90s. Nintendo and Sega were everything until the PS1 came along. Not the N64, which I owned before getting a PS1, but in particular the cinematic screens from Final Fantasy VII was what first blew my mind. Everything up until then was just progressively better, yet feeling naturally evolved.

 

I still don't see a reason to own one. As doctorclu and wood_jl stated, "It's the games, stupid!" Not only could you get better games elsewhere, and you can get the same games elsewhere better. Now that I know that I can get Tempest 2000 on the Saturn, I really have no need at all for a Jaguar.

 

Tempest 2000 on the Saturn * I own it* doesn't run the same way, it stutters and the music stutters and of course you don't have a rotary controller, which in my opinion makes the game a completely different game. Playing on a gamepad just sucks.

[ilaskey]

I used to review Jag games for various UK magazines and for me, it was the software that let it down. There were a handful of nice surprises (power drive rally, rayman, mutant penguins) but apart from AvP and T2K it was just one disappointment after another. It was a real struggle finding good things to say about most games. Even when I visited Atari for the previews it was heart breaking how poor most were.

The final nail in the coffin was the ECTS where Sony showed off the PS1 at a massive stand next to Atari's. I was helping Atari out demoing games. The Sony games just destroyed any hope Atari had and I remember watching their demo screens and thinking it's over.

[BassGuitari]

...but apart from AvP and T2K it was just one disappointment after another...

People keep saying how good AvP and T2K are. When I finally got to play AvP a couple years ago, I was pretty disappointed. It nailed the mood, atmosphere, and tension, but it's slow, clunky, and monotonous. Maybe it was more impressive back in '93 or '94, and for a console game it may have been, but it's aged poorly. Plus I'd already seen Doom around the same time.

 

Tempest 2000 is good, I'll grant that. I wouldn't go so far as to call it killer app material, though. Not for a 1993 console. Overall it's probably the best game for the Jaguar, but it's a pretty damning indictment of the Jaguar's library that its best game is a trippy rehash of a then-13-year-old arcade title.

[NeoGeoNinja]

People keep saying how good AvP and T2K are. When I finally got to play AvP a couple years ago, I was pretty disappointed. It nailed the mood, atmosphere, and tension, but it's slow, clunky, and monotonous. Maybe it was more impressive back in '93 or '94, and for a console game it may have been, but it's aged poorly. Plus I'd already seen Doom around the same time.

 

Tempest 2000 is good, I'll grant that. I wouldn't go so far as to call it killer app material, though. Not for a 1993 console. Overall it's probably the best game for the Jaguar, but it's a pretty damning indictment of the Jaguar's library that its best game is a trippy rehash of a then-13-year-old arcade title.

 

You're right. AvP was immense when it came out. It was the first ever FPS I had ever played myself. Doom too, was also impressive to the many of us not fortunate enough to have access to a PC as a child (Single parent, no money vs 4 fig. cost for PCs).

 

Sure, AvP has aged more poorly, but then, so has Tomb Raider and that was a great example at the forefront of its genre back in the day too. Granted, Doom is STILL exceptional in the gameplay dept., even today.

 

As for T2K; I would never have called it 'Killer App' material on the outside looking in. I think it was more likely a game that wowed the majority of people unexpectedly. I've been playing the game on and off for a whole 2 DECADES now, and my friends, who I have known for the majority of that time, still don't 'get' Tempest. So, it's not for everyone - even if the concept IS a simple one.

[Gregory DG]

Another thing that makes AvP stand out is that the goal wasn't just to kill everything and move on the next level. You could move between levels at any time. The goal of most other FPS games of the time (Doom, Duke Nukem, Rise of the Triad, etc.) was to simply kill everything and find the exit.

Edited October 7, 2014 by Gregory DG

[Rex Dart]

Tempest 2000 is good, I'll grant that. I wouldn't go so far as to call it killer app material, though. Not for a 1993 console. Overall it's probably the best game for the Jaguar, but it's a pretty damning indictment of the Jaguar's library that its best game is a trippy rehash of a then-13-year-old arcade title.

 

Don't forget that until 2000 or so, there was no spinner controller for it. You had to play Tempest with a digital d-pad, just like on the SNES. Whoopee.

[BassGuitari]

 

Sure, AvP has aged more poorly, but then, so has Tomb Raider and that was a great example at the forefront of its genre back in the day too. Granted, Doom is STILL exceptional in the gameplay dept., even today.

 

Tomb Raider was another one I couldn't figure out why so many people liked. Even back in the '90s I had some friends who were obsessed with Tomb Raider II, and I just didn't get it. The game felt so awkward gameplay-wise, like the control physics were stuck in quicksand. There'd be this big delay between when you pressed a button and when something happened. I recently forced myself to try to play through Tomb Raider II in the hopes I might finally see what the hubbub was all about, and I think I got to the fourth or fifth level before I couldn't stand it anymore.

 

Doom, meanwhile, seems to get better with age, what with all the source ports, different engines, and being endlessly moddable. Even plain ole' vanilla Doom is highly playable today.

 

 

Another thing that makes AvP stand out is that the goal wasn't just to kill everything and move on the next level. You could move between levels at any time. The goal of most other FPS games of the time (Doom, Duke Nukem, Rise of the Triad, etc.) was to simply kill everything and find the exit.

 

That is one thing I have to give AvP credit for, being more about survival than seek-and-destroy. It was a little ahead of its time in that way.

 

[Bill Loguidice]

You have to put all games in the context of their time and then you can separately decide if you think the game still holds up today. I think most of us agree that a game like Doom holds up better than either Tomb Raider or AvP, but then Doom is really the type of game that you would expect stand up, being mostly straight up action with chunky, but perfectly functional graphics. Tomb Raider on the other hand, along with the more or less concurrent Super Mario 64, was one of the first games to get 3D action adventuring right. Sure, it doesn't hold up today because of the clunky visuals, clunky controls, etc., but it really was a breakthrough at the time. While Super Mario 64 more or less holds up even today for a variety of reasons, the original Tomb Raider doesn't, with the caveat that the modern day recreations/sequels do in fact offer state-of-the-art experiences, making specific play of the original on Saturn, PS1, and PC - even if it did hold up - unnecessary. It's arguable that the original (specific) Doom experience has not in fact been improved, hence the reason why we still get straight up emulations/simulations of the original on modern platforms.

 

AvP on Jaguar is definitely a product of its time, as well as one of the few truly standout titles on the Jaguar. For that, it needs to be lauded. It doesn't mean it holds up better today, though, than something like Wolfenstein 3D for the Jaguar, which really couldn't be improved all that much, even today (if that makes sense). In that regard, if I were to introduce someone to the Jaguar today I'd stick with Wolfenstein 3D and Doom before moving them onto AvP.

[JagChris]

AvP was an awesome experience. In the dark. Alone.

[Austin]

Sure, AvP has aged more poorly, but then, so has Tomb Raider and that was a great example at the forefront of its genre back in the day too.

 

Did it? Last I tried it, Tomb Raider still plays pretty well (strictly speaking about the first one on PS1 or PC). Surely the fact it doesn't run at 7 frames per second helps its case some (in relation to AvP) .

[Rick Dangerous]

 

Did it? Last I tried it, Tomb Raider still plays pretty well (strictly speaking about the first one on PS1 or PC). Surely the fact it doesn't run at 7 frames per second helps its case some (in relation to AvP) .

 

More importantly, could the Jaguar handle it?

[guiltl3ss]

I was only 7 in 1993, so my perspective is a little bit more limited compared to some of you. I also happened to live about right in the middle between the S.F. Bay Area and Sacramento Valley so one would think we would have better access than most. That was not the case at all. Our Toys R Us never carried it, neither did any of our department stores. I didn't even know it existed until much later because of my gaming cousin who dedicated himself to gaming. Even had I heard about it, 200+ bucks for a new console was a LOT of money back then. The same year I was able to buy a SNES with Zelda from Toys R Us for about 110 or 120 (with a ten dollar off coupon). I saved for like a year just to get that! And since the SNES and Genesis was still going strong, none of us even wanted a new console (even had we known about it...).

 

I know I'm rambling a bit, but the Jaguar really had an uphill battle with the average consumer. Existing platforms were still going strong (and were much cheaper), their marketing and distribution was terribad, and the next wave of consoles were already on the way. I don't think the Jag ever had a chance...which is really sad because I love it so much. I love it and yet I dont know why sometimes...hm.

[NeoGeoNinja]

When I finally happened upon my Jaguar in 94, which I got in an exchange for my SNES with LOADS of games, I'd already been reading about it in magazines and couldn't wait to get my hands on it. It came with AvP, T2K, Cybermorph & Doom. Honest to God, I was in NO way disappointed with that console.

 

What, no Baldies? Mutant Penguins, Bubsy, Double Dragon, Kasumi Ninja? No love for Val D'isére Skiing, White Men Can't Jump, I-War? Of all the people replying, you seem to have enjoyed the Jag the most... and you mention owning five games. I think we're homing in on an answer here.

 

Not sure what you're exactly getting at here?

 

However, just to reclarify, basically, I had my Jaguar at that period between the mighty MD & SNES and arrival of PS1 & SATURN. And, considering I had gone straight from the SNES, the Jaguar was a massive leap for me at that time and, as such, I really enjoyed all the new experiences the Jag offered me - from AvP to Club Drive (in fairness, I had never played a fully 3D racer at home before. Even to just drive through San Francisco or the Wild West was a new experience) and Cybermorph to T2K. It was all stuff I had never experienced before elsewhere...

[Lost Dragon]

Re:AVP on Jaguar, at the time it was revealed:Speaking as a HUGE Alien/s 'nut' i'd grown up loving Electric Dreams Aliens on C64 (far, far better game than Activision's Alien's USA sub-game collection), Probes superb Alien 3 on Mega Drive and then the superbly atmospheric SNES version of Alien 3, plus Konami's Aliens in the arcades, but seeing AVP running on video footage, man alive!.Killer-App a '3D' (well 2.5 D was'nt it?) Aliens games with photorealistic enviroments, samples taken directly from films, the bloody Predator vision modes etc etc, it sold the Jag to me and did not dissapoint.

I've not played it for years though and why? because i simply don't want to 'harm' the special place it has it my head, if i played it today, i'm sure i'd be appalled at the frame rate etc, as i'd judge it by what i'm now used to, even though i'd know that was wrong.

Tomb Raider however i never understood the love for, controls felt frustrating as hell.

[Lost Dragon]

Re:Could Jaguar of handled Tomb Raider? i put that exact question to Mike Fulton many months ago, here's HIS answer:

This is the first time I’ve ever heard anything about Tomb Raider and Jaguar

in the same paragraph. It seems very unlikely to me… the first released

version of Tomb Raider was late 96, even later than Quake’s release.

Tomb Raider, in anything like the form we know, would have been very

difficult to do on Jaguar. It used OpenGL for 3D and there was nothing like

Open-GL for the Jaguar, and few games had made any sort of attempt at

texture-mapping the entire display.

I’m not saying it would have been impossible but it would have taken a

pretty good development team to pul it off.

[Lost Dragon]

I also asked him about Quake:

 

 

'Quake didn’t come out on the PC until mid ’96, like 9 months after I had

left Atari. By that time, new Jaguar projects were pretty much

non-existent. So it seems unlikely that there was anything going there, at

least not with ID. It’s far more likely that someone started playing around

with the QUAKE source code when it was released.

 

The big hurdle to overcome for Quake (as well as Tomb Raider) would have

been the lack of a texture-mapping 3D library.

 

Having such a library would take development of the game from 0% to about

70% in one jump, so someone saying QUAKE was 30-40% done sounds like they

were talking about someone working on a library, not so much the game

itself.'

[Lost Dragon]

And Water World:

 

Lost Dragon:Oceans Waterworld: vapourware or did game really get started?, it's popped up on a Lost Jaguar Game Jag CD

 

Mike: I don’t recall that we had done anything with Ocean beyond

talking. I can’t recall any projects getting started.

[Lost Dragon]

And this before i stumbled across the Edge interview with Jez San, but had also put same question to Darryl Still (Ex-Atari UK), regarding Jaguar CD Creature Shock:

 

 

 

I seem to remember we wanted to get Creature Shock going for Jaguar, but I

don’t recall that it ever got anywhere, with the possible exception of maybe

having converted some video footage to play on Jaguar. And it’s possible

we did that ourselves from assets they sent us, using our generic video

player code.

 

 

So, there you go.When i originally started looking into those claims on the so-called 'official' lost Jaguar games thread, i started looking into multiple sources of information, inc approaching key people themselves, before popping up my information to counter that which had been claimed and i felt the community deserved to have the information obtained freely given.

 

Even better news, THAT Mega-Parcel of scans my was doing? he's finished, should be sending to me soon, so i can forward stuff onto High Voltage.

[racerx]

As someone who grew up with the 2600, I watched the coming of the Jaguar (mostly through the gaming mags) with interest.

 

I wasn't interested in buying one, mind you. It was readily apparent to me even as a recent college grad that Atari didn't have the resources to make the machine a success. I mostly watched with a morbid fascination...like a slow motion train crash.

 

The wife did buy me one when Kaybee was blowing them out, and I've collected for it since. Yes, it was a failure with zero chance of success from the get go, and no, most of its games are simply not any good. But I love it as a last gasp, an exorcise in futility, a final quixotic tilt at the windmill, for the company that filled my childhood with so many warm gaming memories.