+Mitch Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 So, to answer my own question. The SD card I am using is a SanDisk 4 gb class 4 SDHC card. Formatted to FAT32. I just tested three more 7800 and they all showed green on the integrity test. One of them crashed three times before it loaded the ROM but then it showed all green. Now I am going to try with the latest firmware. Mitch 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Mitch Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 Dug out some more consoles. Using the latest posted firmware, the first five all came up green. Console number six showed red on 8000, 9000, C000 and D000. Will go dig up some more consoles now. Mitch 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevEng Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 This is going to sound a bit kooky, but given batari couldn't replicate the issue on Mitch's console... does anybody with the issue have a UPS or power conditioner they could plug the console into? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Mitch Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 So I just tested three more consoles and they all came up green. I also retested the problem console and now D000 is green but the other three areas are still red. That is all the consoles I've got for now. I do own a UPS that I could move to the game room temporarily. I am not sure if I will be able to do it tonight though. It does seem odd that, of the ten 7800 consoles that I have tested with the exact same power setup, only two have the issue. Mitch 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevEng Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 Whatever the heart of the issue is, it seems there's at least a couple contributing factors, or else batari would have replicated it with your console. (or you'd see it on all of your consoles with that same concerto). Maybe it's the particular concerto and the particular console, as batari thinks. I just figured power would be something to cross off the list. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Mitch Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 2 minutes ago, RevEng said: Whatever the heart of the issue is, it seems there's at least a couple contributing factors, or else batari would have replicated it with your console. (or you'd see it on all of your consoles with that same concerto). Maybe it's the particular concerto and the particular console, as batari thinks. I just figured power would be something to cross off the list. Yeah, that is what I was trying to figure out as well. Though now it is my Concerto and two 7800s. I could dig up several more power supplies and test with them if it would make a difference. Mitch 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+evg2000 Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 2 minutes ago, Mitch said: Yeah, that is what I was trying to figure out as well. Though now it is my Concerto and two 7800s. I could dig up several more power supplies and test with them if it would make a difference. Mitch or possibly send your cart to batari? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Mitch Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 2 hours ago, evg2000 said: or possibly send your cart to batari? That would be a possibility as well. Mitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+KylJoy Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 I had not even thought about SD card compatibility. I just ran through a few tests with three different microSD cards with adapters on the Version 5 BIOS recently posted. Here are my results: 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+batari Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 In some ways these results are surprising, as we definitely did find issues with RIOT RAM. There was corruption with writes to RIOT RAM, and from RIOT RAM to other locations. The corrupted addresses written to (from code running in RIOT RAM) were not random and followed a repeatable pattern. In other ways, they are not surprising. That is, if the problem turns out to be something to do with some Concertos out there, like maybe a part on them that differs in some important way to the parts I installed on Concertos built recently. If this is the case, and I can determine the problem part, I would do a voluntary recall of affected Concertos and update them: I'd pay the costs involved. Before I ask for Mitch's Concerto, I will try varying the power into his console by limiting voltage and current (currently my PSU is a brand new unit from Best) and build a few more Concertos here and try those out. I will see if I have any old SD cards too, as everything I use is pretty new (16-32GB) and maybe locate an old MMC card to try out. Either way, I am sure I will solve the problem! 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinks Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 (edited) What about the cart edge pin locations on the Concerto vs a standard atari cart? I remember years ago I found them to be off.. Edited August 25, 2020 by Jinks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+batari Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 1 minute ago, Jinks said: What about the cart edge pin locations on the Concerto vs a standard atari cart? Are there differences? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevEng Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 One more idea for the testers... if you don't have a UPS like Mitch, maybe just ensure that all devices that are cabled to the console (TV, stereo) are plugged into the same outlet, to avoid ground loops. [edit - nevermind. the 7800 power adapter has no actual earth, so that won't help) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+-^CrossBow^- Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 11 minutes ago, RevEng said: One more idea for the testers... if you don't have a UPS like Mitch, maybe just ensure that all devices that are cabled to the console (TV, stereo) are plugged into the same outlet, to avoid ground loops. [edit - nevermind. the 7800 power adapter has no actual earth, so that won't help) Maybe not but the VRs due tend to behave a little differently on their supplied voltages depending on the PSU that is used? In order for Batari to really test Mitch's console, he needs the console, PSU and the Concerto he is using right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevEng Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 2 minutes ago, -^CrossBow^- said: Maybe not but the VRs due tend to behave a little differently on their supplied voltages depending on the PSU that is used? In order for Batari to really test Mitch's console, he needs the console, PSU and the Concerto he is using right? Yeah, agreed that's a possibility. It's even a bit worse than that. If there's a common ground (like there would be over an audio or video cable) than a difference in ground at each device could induce noise. Of course, it still shouldn't affect a digital device until it got to crazy levels, but... 7800. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+KylJoy Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 4 hours ago, batari said: ...like maybe a part on them that differs in some important way to the parts I installed on Concertos built recently. If this is the case, and I can determine the problem part, I would do a voluntary recall of affected Concertos and update them: I'd pay the costs involved. Let me know if you'd like me to test something. I can swap parts, etc., if you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 3 hours ago, -^CrossBow^- said: Maybe not but the VRs due tend to behave a little differently on their supplied voltages depending on the PSU that is used? In order for Batari to really test Mitch's console, he needs the console, PSU and the Concerto he is using right? The *shouldn't* - that's what a voltage regulator does, after all - regulate the output to a fixed level regardless of the input voltage. Of course, they do have tolerances, and sometimes they get out of spec and ought to be replaced. Old 7805's also run hot and waste a lot of power in doing so. I would not at all be surprised if marginal, old 7805's have at least something to do with the randomness of peoples' experiences, especially when being fed by old fashioned linear power supplies (which also have tolerances and are getting older by the day ...). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+-^CrossBow^- Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 1 minute ago, DrVenkman said: The *shouldn't* - that's what a voltage regulator does, after all - regulate the output to a fixed level regardless of the input voltage. Of course, they do have tolerances, and sometimes they get out of spec and ought to be replaced. Old 7805's also run hot and waste a lot of power in doing so. I would not at all be surprised if marginal, old 7805's have at least something to do with the randomness of peoples' experiences, especially when being fed by old fashioned linear power supplies (which also have tolerances and are getting older by the day ...). Correct they shouldn't but we have seen that they do and in at least the instance of changing the input voltage we can see changes in the current requirements from the console. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPUWIZ Posted August 26, 2020 Share Posted August 26, 2020 7 hours ago, batari said: Are there differences? Yes, I told you about that a long time ago. Yours are off, I compared it to my PCB's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Mitch Posted August 26, 2020 Share Posted August 26, 2020 I tested with three different power supplies, one of them being a new AtariGuide one, with no change. I also tested with the UPS with no change. Mitch 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinks Posted August 26, 2020 Share Posted August 26, 2020 1 hour ago, CPUWIZ said: Yes, I told you about that a long time ago. Yours are off, I compared it to my PCB's. I was going to take a pic of a Concerto vs a Centipede board I have out but I can not get to my games as doing a renovation... this would show it well.. ?"One of these things is kinda the same.." ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+batari Posted August 26, 2020 Share Posted August 26, 2020 4 hours ago, Jinks said: I was going to take a pic of a Concerto vs a Centipede board I have out but I can not get to my games as doing a renovation... this would show it well.. ?"One of these things is kinda the same.." ? If you mean the board dimensions, yes, on the first run those were off a bit and it required surgery on some shells to get the board to fit. Fixed on the second run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinks Posted August 26, 2020 Share Posted August 26, 2020 If you took the Concerto board and placed it with the contacts that insert into the 7800 and matched those contacts to an o.e.m. board you would find them not in the correct spacing. I am not 100% sure this would be enough to lose contact with some of the pins on the 7800 female edge connector or not.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+batari Posted August 26, 2020 Share Posted August 26, 2020 2 hours ago, Jinks said: If you took the Concerto board and placed it with the contacts that insert into the 7800 and matched those contacts to an o.e.m. board you would find them not in the correct spacing. I am not 100% sure this would be enough to lose contact with some of the pins on the 7800 female edge connector or not.. Hmm, I will investigate that. The card edge connector on Concerto was someone else's work which I trusted was correct. I will take a close look at the pins on my various consoles and see if it could cause any issues. Of course I will bring it into spec for future releases as well. Lesson learned, I should have cracked out the calipers and did all the measurement work myself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinks Posted August 26, 2020 Share Posted August 26, 2020 14 minutes ago, batari said: Hmm, I will investigate that. The card edge connector on Concerto was someone else's work which I trusted was correct. I will take a close look at the pins on my various consoles and see if it could cause any issues. Of course I will bring it into spec for future releases as well. Lesson learned, I should have cracked out the calipers and did all the measurement work myself This may or may not be the problem 100% Depends on how much of a contact the female pins on the 7800 latch onto the cart edge. Maybe some 7800s have a variance as well and enough to cause problems. Everyone appreciates the work your doing with this. I can get mine to work well enough on one 7800 that it plays many games once the ole 7800 warms up. I compare the 7800 to a tube amplifier warming up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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