Miyamoto tired, Rockstar wired? Nintendo fanboy speaks...

[kisrael]

So I got Wind Waker (Surprised I haven't heard more "Wind Wanker" jokes...) And, just like Metroid, it's cool but I'm not that enthralled with it. It's not capturing my attention nearly so much as GTA:VC (and GTA3 for that matter)

 

And I think I know why; with Metroid (not truly Miyamoto, I know) and Link, they feel like they have big worlds to explore, but when you get right down to it, they're incredibly linear (though I heard Wind Walker has a big period near the end of tedious triforce gathering.) These games are just a series of puzzles and bossmonster fights, with a lot of walking and smaller combats in between. Once my friend and I beat Metroid Prime (and to be fair my friend was driving more often than I was) I had no inclination to put the disc back in and give it another whirl. I had seen close enough to everything there was to see, gathered all the powerups and upgrades, beaten everything. I'm pretty sure the same thing will happen with the new Zelda.

 

But the new GTAs? Man, I still take these out 2 or 3 times a week. (Well, I've only had them since the begining of the year, but still) There are so many little sidequests, missions I can either give myself, or things I left undone...even just tooling around doing jumps and causing mayhem and trying to escape from a high wanted level is fun. (Stealing the more advanced police action vehicles is especially cool and challenging)

 

And Vice City and Liberty City feel a lot more like real worlds, and not just because they're "real life"...yeah, cars and pedestrians don't last once they're out of eyesight, and it's not like they model a virtual economy or anything, but it's a lot more realistic than Link and Metroid and Mario Sunshine's habit of just putting the same creatures in the same place all the time.

 

Mario Sunshine is so clearly about goals and missions I don't mind so much, but Metroid and Link want to feel free ranging, and they just aren't. (Maybe I'm bitter; I used a gull to explore Outset Island in WW, found a cave entrance around the back...I just beat the dragon-ish dungeon on that island of bird postal workers, and would rather go to outset island, but my boat is forcing me to go to the next dungeon.) In Zelda the setups are so obvious (hmmm, a lit torch, some unlit torches, some wood, a box to push) and it's so close to its old school roots that I can live with it, but I don't remember the older Metroid games having quite so many blatant puzzle setups. GTA, on the other hand, everything just flows, there's a lot less that's blatantly there just for the main character to solve, the missions take place in the context of a consistent world.

 

I love Nintendo, and have been really bummed by the lack of games I want to buy for PS2 after getting one this holiday season. But I think the non-nostalgia future is going to be with games that have both good stories and missions, but in the context of a larger world the player can do non-directed freeplay in--and except for maybe Animal Crossing, I don't think we've seen that from Nintendo. Online RPGs also capture this same vibe of a world to play in, along with interesting missions, plus the enhancement and freedom of interacting with other players, though they're not my cuppa tea.

 

Whaddya think?

[Mikau]

Hmm... remember, GTA's open-ended gameplay in a real world has its roots with Nintendo. Those ideas were created in the Legend of Zelda, and might even go back farther than that.

 

What's wrong with a world that isn't fully realistic? Look at the Getaway, the developers spent crap-loads of time replicating the cracks in the road, and the gameplay suffered significantly. Expression is often traded in for realism these days.

 

Oh, and after the first dungeon, I think you can return to Outset Island if you really want to. Just use the song to make the wind go where ever.

[sdstuff64]

Hmm... remember, GTA's open-ended gameplay in a real world has its roots with Nintendo. Those ideas were created in the Legend of Zelda, and might even go back farther than that.  

 

 

The ideas in GTA?

 

And if you really care to look back everything has it's roots with something/someone else.

 

 

And I feel the same kisrael,they are great games,just not great games.And for those of you hoping for GCN online,forget about it.They said no online games at E3 this year.

[kisrael]

Hmm... remember, GTA's open-ended gameplay in a real world has its roots with Nintendo. Those ideas were created in the Legend of Zelda, and might even go back farther than that.

I just bought the Prima Zelda guide, and they start with brief summaries of the past Zeldas, mentioning the "open ended exploration" of the original. I dunno, I think what GTA brings to the table isn't that kind of wandering over every nook and cranny, looking for hidden items or events--it has that, and rewards people who want to do that, but it's completely optional. It gives you a lot of different things to do, and a universe rich enough to make up your own things to do. You could say they're just minigames, but they're so much more well woven into the fabric of the game...almost all the minigames in Zelda are of the "walk into a room" variety, and the UI (display and controls) totally changes. with GTA:VC, they're fun ways of using the basic elements of the game itself.

What's wrong with a world that isn't fully realistic? Look at the Getaway, the developers spent crap-loads of time replicating the cracks in the road, and the gameplay suffered significantly. Expression is often traded in for realism these days.

I'm not a diehard realism fan, believe me. (And GTA3 has a lot of places where it bends realism for the sake of gameplay, Pay -N- Sprays that totally fix your car and make the cops forget about you, the ability to absorb lots of gunshots in your armor, then in you, with no ill effect 'til you die, a cop that you could otherwise easily beat up or survive can bust you if he yanks you out of a car, etc.)

 

But where I think GTA shines over Zelda and Metroid is that in the latter, it feels that every damn thing in the whole world is espcially placed there for you to solve. but with the former, you're just a guy in a city that could care less about you, and seems to go on even where you aren't looking.

 

Oh, and after the first dungeon, I think you can return to Outset Island if you really want to. Just use the song to make the wind go where ever.

I summoned a southwest wind to blow me to Outset Island rather than south like the game was hinting, and after a short while the boat told me we're not ready to go on, we should continue our quest to the main island. That was my excuse to put the game down for a while, my motivation through Dragon Roost was getting my boat back in order to go check out that island.

 

I think viewing with Gulls are a good (and rare-ish) example of open ended play in Zelda (and I like that I figured it out myself by experimenting with a pear) and it's frustrating to not be able to get there, even though I have the boat.