jaybird3rd Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 That's enough for me. Do you really want to hear anything else from these jackasses, after seeing what they're capable of? I certainly don't. That's really the only quibble that I have with 5-11under's otherwise excellent post: it's a good start toward cleaning up the RVGS mess and moving forward constructively, but it assumes that Mike and Co. are the ones to do it. Personally, I think their reputations have taken so much damage (mostly self-inflicted) that, even if they swallow their pride and follow that list to the letter, very few will trust their sincerity. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybird3rd Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 In Crocodile Dundee's voice: "That's not a workbench, this is a workbench!". I am guessing Kevin doesn't mind. I think I've just found my new desktop wallpaper! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tep392 Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 3c1. Don't assume that 6000 people will want your console, no matter how awesome it is, or no matter how awesome you think it is. 3c2. Assume that 600 people will want your console, assuming it's great. 3c3. Don't assume people will want to pay $300 for a base model. 3c4. Assume that people will pay $180 for your console. They don't need a controller. They have one already, or can purchase them separately from you or eBay. This is the single biggest issue in my opinion. Look at the FPGA poll thread and you'll see that even among the retro collecting crowd, we're only willing to pay up to $200 for this type of system. They'll never find 6000 people willing to pay $300 plus. It's too niche a market. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+wood_jl Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 [edited: no more jokes] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elmer Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 (edited) You're probably right about the RGB/VGA boards simply being "props". It's amazing that, after the "year of hard work" that they claim to have put into this project, they still have so little to show that they would feel the need to use props in a video of this kind. Others have identified most of the remaining boards on that "workbench", and they seem to amount to about $140 worth of off-the-shelf hardware. They must be spending all their money on patent lawyers for some mysterious reason. (I hope that triverse's upcoming interview addresses the whole patent issue because it still makes no sense to me.) I assumed that he was simply camera-shy, but now I think you're right about his being forced into it. I hate to say this, but it almost has the ambiance of a hostage video. This was semi-hidden in the FaceBook postings, and I've not seen it mentioned here, yet. John Carlsen has admitted that the he's using an off-the-shelf eval board for the RockChip RK3188 for "development", and that the RGB boards are for a different "product" (so why have them on the table???). Please note that we'll have a minimum of 16,000 DMIPS, not 1600. The monitor I use is a Sony PVM-1342Q; in the demo I feed in only composite video, which would be the lowest quality of all outputs from my circuit, and it still looks beautiful. I'm glad to see that you understand the hardware development process well. Thank you for helping to explain it. Even when I was at Sony, as the principal hardware engineer on a project that was budgeted to bring in a billion dollars in revenue, I started the project the same way: building the rest of my circuits outward from an eval board. You have a good eye for the market. Keep in mind this is just the "minimum" configuration that we will use in a final product: The processor is indeed a Rockchip RK3188. I'm using it on a module supplied with 1 GiB mounted to an eval board. (Our finished product may have more RAM, but we don't need a lot of RAM to load into because the cartridge interface is pretty fast.) This allows me to quickly build up a circuit around it with the least amount of cost, effort, and risk. (Why re-invent the wheel, right?) It's a great part, but the best part of RETRO VGS really is what goes around it. Those Gonbes GBS-8220 units aren't used in this demo; I use them with another product I make and already sell worldwide (a specialized video DAC). Edited September 27, 2015 by elmer 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarPath Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 (edited) Time for some levity in this thread! So earlier, Reaperman posted a picture of the infamous (wikipedia) Ford Pinto automobile. Here's the picture, again: Pinto Ad.jpg All of a sudden, I want a Pinto! Forget the fact that it was a crummy car and a potential flaming deathtrap; check out that leggy blonde!!!! So that reminds us that "sex sells." Of course it does. Everybody knows it. It's not that Mike's ad campaign is not good - the ad campaign is probably the only thing done well in this entire project. I mean, look at those renders! You'd think the product actually exists, if you didn't know better. That's some marketing chops! The only thing missing is some sexiness, the kind that makes you want to buy a Pinto in the above picture. I think the Retro VGS ad campaign could use some "spicing up" with the same sexiness that sells everything else that is overpriced, underperforming, and that you really don't need but buy anway in your relentless pursuit of consumerism. I'm no advertiser, but as proof of concept, let's see if you're more inclinded to buy after sexing it up a little with some spicy new ads: (some may enlarge with a click) Blonde Ad.jpg Kicking.jpg No Batteries.jpg Blow You Away.jpg See? You know you want to play with it (the Retro VGS, of course) now. Now, there's been some chatter about prototypes, here. Just to see if a new sexy ad campaign would work, I had to come up with a "prototype sexy ad" before those other ones. To prove it, I also post it here, but take not that it's not a real ad. It's a "prototype sexy ad" only. Prototype Sexy Ad.jpg Now that you're fully-engorged, get on over to the crowdfunding site and donate while you still have turgor pressure. Kek'd the hardest at "Only $299 (and a bargain at twice that)" I have a theory that the reason John claims that he kept the proto a secret from Mike is so that they can explain away the reason they said there was no prototype. It seems like the whole thing is likely orchestrated by Mike himself. Edited September 27, 2015 by StarPath 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPUWIZ Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 John Carlsen has admitted that the he's using an off-the-shelf eval board for the RockChip RK3188 for "development" Cool, that makes a lot more sense. EDIT: Wrong guess. EDIT2: Amazing how cheap the Chinese can get these things. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Radxa-Rock-Pro-RK3188-Quad-core-1-6-GHz-2G-RAM-8G-Flash-Single-board-Computer-/251970625930?hash=item3aaa9ea18a 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlegamer Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 Gentlegamer, PLS. I am keeping the foul smell of the Retro VGS as far away from my beloved YouTube Channel as possible. This post brought to you by Classic Gaming Quarterly and the Classic Gaming Quarterly family of intellectual products. I understand, but you have my full support if you devote time to calling out and ridiculing scammers and collectards. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retro Nick Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 Before I sign out for the night: I didn't come here to sling mud, but to honestly express my full disappointment of how the RVGS project turned out. I'm not tying to "Boy Scout" the thread, or anything here. If others want to make jokes about this, that's fine. Do what you want, but that's not my personal goal here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlegamer Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 Time for some levity in this thread! So earlier, Reaperman posted a picture of the infamous (wikipedia) Ford Pinto automobile. Here's the picture, again: Pinto Ad.jpg All of a sudden, I want a Pinto! Forget the fact that it was a crummy car and a potential flaming deathtrap; check out that leggy blonde!!!! My grandfather drove a Pinto. I've been told he let me sit on his lap and steer it when I was very young. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+wood_jl Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 If others want to make jokes about this, that's fine. Do what you want, but that's not my personal goal here. Thank you, for permitting jokes. Are jokes really the problem? I wish I could share in your somberness, but I'll leave that part up to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 Thank you, for permitting jokes. Are jokes really the problem? I wish I could share in your somberness, but I'll leave that part up to you. I like jokes, but I don't really appreciate the ones you posted above. I think we can be classier than that. ..Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybird3rd Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 This was semi-hidden in the FaceBook postings, and I've not seen it mentioned here, yet.John Carlsen has admitted that the he's using an off-the-shelf eval board for the RockChip RK3188 for "development", and that the RGB boards are for a different "product" (so why have them on the table???). Interesting, I've been watching Facebook (as closely as I can; I don't have an account), and I didn't notice those posts. You'd think these are the kinds of details that they would have put front and center on their home page and on IGG, on day one of the campaign (if not before!), instead of leaving it to us to dig them out of Facebook posts. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
game_escape Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 At one point, I was looking for a "similar" opening sound to that of Law and Order. Quite funny. As it is, it will just be the interview, no fancy intro, no music, just the facts. Like Dragnet. Hey Triverse, did the interview get posted yet? I am really looking forward to hearing a legitimate interview with these gentlemen, as opposed to the infomerical we got yesterday. Sad that it will be one of the highlights of my weekend, but I can't seem to look away from this mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+wood_jl Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 I like jokes, but I don't really appreciate the ones you posted above. I think we can be classier than that. ..Al Point taken. [/jokes] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elmer Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 (edited) Interesting, I've been watching Facebook (as closely as I can; I don't have an account) Me, neither. It does sometimes make it all a little harder to follow. You'd think that these are the kinds of details that they would have put front and center on their home page and on IGG, on day one of the campaign (if not before!), instead of leaving it to us to dig them out of Facebook posts. Well, since their own FAQ, put up in August, stated ... "Fast sequential processing through media processor with 32-bit ARM Cortex-A8 @ 1.2 GHz, 3-D processor, blitter, and more" right up until the night before the IndieGoGo campaign started ... there's definitely a question of just how long John Carlsen has been using a 1.6GHz Cortex-A9 quad-core chip like the RockChip RK3188. How fast is the shipping on those ones from eBay? Edited September 27, 2015 by elmer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiru Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 Interesting, I've been watching Facebook (as closely as I can; I don't have an account), and I didn't notice those posts. You'd think that these are the kinds of details that they would have put front and center on their home page and on IGG, on day one of the campaign (if not before!), instead of leaving it to us to dig them out of Facebook posts. They're stating prototyping needs 100s grands, giving away the detail that they use a $100 eval board for prototyping would somewhat contradict to the statement. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenegg Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 They're stating prototyping needs 100s grands, giving away the detail that they use a $100 eval board for prototyping would somewhat contradict to the statement. I'm thinking they're adding lawyer fees in to their estimates. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triverse Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 Hey Triverse, did the interview get posted yet? I am really looking forward to hearing a legitimate interview with these gentlemen, as opposed to the infomerical we got yesterday. Sad that it will be one of the highlights of my weekend, but I can't seem to look away from this mess. Not yet. I am still working on the copy over to text. I am not a skilled person at this so it is taking a little longer and there is a fair bit of overtalking between them. Also, anyone that has heard MIke talk, he does have periods of low talking that make it hard to hear, and require constant rewinding to figure out. It is a slow painful process. I am at the 50 minute mark, or so, and the word file shows 8,600+ words. I still have about half an hour left to copy over. The size of the RTF file is about 93kb if that gives you an idea of how much work there is in this thing so far and it is not even done. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+wood_jl Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 My grandfather drove a Pinto. I've been told he let me sit on his lap and steer it when I was very young. I drove a borrowed Pinto (in the 80s) for a short time and it wasn't as bad as people think. I think the problems were rare. Now it's kind of a "classic" and it's V8-capable for modding. [sorry off-topic, just replying] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amstari Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 I have a theory that the reason John claims that he kept the proto a secret from Mike is so that they can explain away the reason they said there was no prototype. It seems like the whole thing is likely orchestrated by Mike himself. When the problems began I assumed the technical person was the problem. Now I believe that it is the marketing person holding the technical person to ransom. This is just speculation but I think John is in too deep now and has to do whatever Mike says. John just wants to build a console, Mike wants to build an empire. Video games are supposed to be fun, I don't think they are having fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninja_gaiden2015 Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 They're stating prototyping needs 100s grands, giving away the detail that they use a $100 eval board for prototyping would somewhat contradict to the statement. ... as I said in my earlier post, the thing that makes the whole scenario much worse is that John Carlsen's company Syncopated Systems boasts on their website of their cost-effectiveness and speed of production of prototype pcb's and the resources that they have available. If the core of their system was as completed as they had projected then a pcb would easily have been produced. The sad thing is that the original plan of having an FGPA system with multiple video outputs would have had many people on board to commit funds to the project. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenixdownita Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 (edited) Anybody following this thread still cares about the "currently proposed" RVGS fate or are we all waiting for the "I told you so" moment? Edited September 27, 2015 by phoenixdownita 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triverse Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 lol, in the interview, Mike mentions that there is just "now", as in the time of the interview, 75 pages of discussion on Atari Age. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenegg Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 Anybody following this thread still cares about the "currently proposed" RVGS fate or are we all waiting for the "I told you so" moment? I don't think that anyone's questioning the fate of the campaign. It's not going to be successful. Whether that's due to not meeting their goal or having the plug pulled, it's all the same. For me, I'm interested now to see what other insanely non-sensical things they release, as a desperate attempt to gain more backers. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Like us on Facebook
Follow us on Twitter
AtariAge on Instagram
Watch us on YouTube
Chat on Discord
Recommended Posts