StopDrop&Retro Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/681890174/indiego-all-in-one-retro-game-console-raspberry-pi?ref=nav_search That one's not a bad idea. I've wanted to make a media PC with a disc drive that can auto play an original disc instead of iso files. But if it's just Pi based, like these guys are, I don't want it and especially not at that price. But is it possible to do that with media PC running windows? Is there any sort of program that auto loads an emulator when the original disc is inserted? If so, I'll start building. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
108 Stars Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 (edited) I'd disagree that the cartridge idea is not good, and that DRM free digital is generally better. If I had to pick, I'd pick a cartridge any day. Digital goods just aren't worth much to me, they lack the experience of having something physical in hand, of smelling the freshly printed manual etc. I would never pay more than 15$ even for the best game ever made if it is digital. A really good packaging and stuff can be fun. And of course, that can be had with optical media as well. BUT: I know that the times have changed. I know especially younger people have less of a connection to owning physical media. There is no huge crowd waiting for new cart based systems, there is a small enthusiast group. And: While I would gladly pay more money for a physical version of any game, why Chameleon? There are plenty of retro consoles out there I would prefer to buy carts for. The same applies for me when I help with homebrews. I have very little interest in helping with a game that will be digital only. I have no interest at all if the game will be on computers instead of consoles. But even so, it just makes no sense at all for me to do a game for an all new cart based console when there are so many classic systems that support cartridges, and have a big installed userbase. Real fans. I'd support pretty much any retro system, from the Channel F to the PS2 before I'd consider the Chameleon. That one's not a bad idea. I've wanted to make a media PC with a disc drive that can auto play an original disc instead of iso files. But if it's just Pi based, like these guys are, I don't want it and especially not at that price. But is it possible to do that with media PC running windows? Is there any sort of program that auto loads an emulator when the original disc is inserted? If so, I'll start building. The price is fair imo. In the end you do pay for having the system plug & play, without the hassle of setting it up yourself. Not a great plus if you like tinkering, but for someone like me that is something easily worth the little extra. Edited December 21, 2015 by 108 Stars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Very true. Just look at what a huge success the kickstarters for the Mini-Emu and the GameKid were. The demand is out there, for sure. Not really on topic, but regarding Raspberry Pi projects, I got an email from Jameco about a portable screen for Raspberry Pis. This would be wonderful for a portable console mod. I would definitely consider buying a kit project to turn the Raspberry Pi into a portable emulation console. Something Lynx or Game Gear sized (or possibly DMG Game Boy) would be totally doable. http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?&productId=2213253 https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/681890174/indiego-all-in-one-retro-game-console-raspberry-pi?ref=nav_search Neato! I'll have to keep this on my radar. Too many things on my wishlist atm though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StopDrop&Retro Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Actually, I found out that "IndieGo" project dates back to 2013. They started out on IndieGoGo but only raised 45 euros there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bretthorror Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 All these collectors out there buying old manuals and smelling them... what the hell? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
108 Stars Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 (edited) Actually, I found out that "IndieGo" project dates back to 2013. They started out on IndieGoGo but only raised 45 euros there. Indeed, it is a tale of tragedy. We have a pretty long thread on a German forum dating back from then. IndieGo had a TERRIBLE first campaign, and horrific communication. It seems to be mostly a one man show, and the guy reacted very hostile to constructive criticism. It eventually turned into a thread making fun of how bad everything was executed. Terrible grammar and spelling, confusing, agressive replies, arrogance... Now for the relaunch of the campaign he did finally take some advice. We sent him some improvements on the text (still no native speaker, but at least people who do know English somewhat), pulling details out of his nose about what actually is included in the project. In the end, what he promises to deliver is a fine product. It remains to be seen how well it is executed though. At least he says that in the meantime the system has been completed and is ready for production. All these collectors out there buying old manuals and smelling them... what the hell? NEW manuals. You don't smell much of fresh print when a game is 2 decades old. But I hope you understand what I am getting at. Take the Ultima games as an extreme; Richard Garriott understand that great packaging and extras (his "feelies") just add to the overall experience. The same applies to a lesser degree to any physical medium. Digital just is not the same to me at all. I have about 180 games on GOG I believe, and maybe 40 on Steam. I have completed not a single one, and actually I probably never even played more than 1/3. When I look at my 650 physical games, I have played most of them; and given the choice I am also much more likely try one of my retail games instead of launching a game I downloaded. I'll gladly purchase the games from Limited Run Games, eventhough at 25$ + 15$ shipping +16% customs make it a bit pricey. Again, not saying Chameleon is a solution; it asks for a lot of cash to do what plenty of consoles I own can do anyway. But the idea of wanting physical media I totally understand. And while optical media are okay to me I also agree that given the choice I do prefer cartridges. Simply because CD drives wear out rather quickly in comparison. I take good care of my consoles, but there are plenty of Sega CDs, PCE Duos, PS1, Saturn and 3DO consoles suffering. Edited December 21, 2015 by 108 Stars 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 All these collectors out there buying old manuals and smelling them... what the hell? NEW manuals. You don't smell much of fresh print when a game is 2 decades old. But I hope you understand what I am getting at. Take the Ultima games as an extreme; Richard Garriott understand that great packaging and extras (his "feelies") just add to the overall experience. The same applies to a lesser degree to any physical medium. How about Styrofoam? That's a smell I will forever associate with Nintendo games. Mmmmm, chemicals. Getting emotional ... Nowadays, game hardware is packed in cleverly folded cardboard. I'm somewhat surprised no one is trying to bring back the environmental disaster of Styrofoam for weird, sentimental reasons. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
108 Stars Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 I bet they are, somewhere. ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPUWIZ Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Why was the colecovision a great System again? spreading misinformation Nobody said anything about Colecovision, so spreading misinformation, you are. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triverse Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 (edited) Maybe Mike can bring back the snack time cabbage patch dolls to go along with the launch of the coleco chameleon. Cabbage Patch Kids is not owned by Coleco Holdings (who own the rights to the Coleco name/brand). The rights to Cabbage Patch Kids were picked up by Hasbro when Coleco went out of busniess in 1988, then in 1994 Hasbro sold the rights to Mattel. In 2003 Toys R Us apparently picked up the rights only to sell them to Play Along a year later. In 2011 Jakks Pacific picked them up and three years later, Wicked Cool Toys picked them up and still holds them. So, the chances of Cabbage Patch Kids, or any other Coleco item outside the name being associated with the Chameleon is rather slim. Oh, and the new developer is named here- http://retrogamingmagazine.com/2015/12/21/we-open-the-door-to-the-coleco-chameleon-as-we-shut-the-door-on-the-retro-video-game-system/ Edited December 21, 2015 by triverse 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bretthorror Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 You guys can keep on smelling manuals and styrofoam like a bunch of fucking weirdos. I'm gonna stick to just smelling women's feet like a normal person. 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlaysWithWolves Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 I'd disagree that the cartridge idea is not good, and that DRM free digital is generally better. If I had to pick, I'd pick a cartridge any day. Digital goods just aren't worth much to me, they lack the experience of having something physical in hand, of smelling the freshly printed manual etc. I would never pay more than 15$ even for the best game ever made if it is digital. A really good packaging and stuff can be fun. And of course, that can be had with optical media as well. I can hold and caress my digital collection any time. I can go to sleep with it too. Just like a cartridge junkie dreams of. In the end a cartridge, HDD, SDD, SD card, whatever media1 have you, is just a container. A holding receptacle for the digital goods. The only question is what the density is. 8KB per 3 oz. or 8GB per 1/8th oz. So you see, a digital collection vs.cartridge stash a matter of size and formfactor. I've said it elsewhere in other threads, but for educational and perspective purposes it bears repeating here. Cartridges of the past were a necessity borne out of technological limitations of the day. It was the easiest way to change out a Game Program or other circuitry in a safe and non-tech way. Today that isn't necessary. Nor is it desirable. Notes: 1- Certain media has better sex appeal than others. CD & optical is at the bottom of the barrel, the stuff you'd pick up in lower class neighborhoods. It's been spun around the block a few times. Moving up to HDD, you get a lot of bang for the buck, but it requires careful handling and only recently got a nice outfit for a night on the town. At the top is SSD and SD cards. These look the best and have the performance to back it up. You can abuse them and they come back for more. Ready to serve you instantly. Anytime any place baby! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotoRacer Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Mike bought the licenses to use to COLECO name from the holder of the name. From what this community has concluded this was done just to pull at nostalgia of the people not in the know of this consoles past and to make money off of the COLECO name from the press associated with it. Thanks, that's what I figured, but it's good to know I'm not going nuts.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raticon Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 (edited) Actually, just to clarify, from the AtGames standpoint, they'll be sticking with Atari- and Sega-branded physical products going forward, and experimenting with some new classic brands that they haven't as of yet released product around. [...] Looking forward for dem Fairchild Channel F, Odyssey2 and RCA Studio 2 Flashbacks ? Edited December 21, 2015 by Raticon 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
108 Stars Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 (edited) I can hold and caress my digital collection any time. I can go to sleep with it too. Just like a cartridge junkie dreams of. In the end a cartridge, HDD, SDD, SD card, whatever media1 have you, is just a container. A holding receptacle for the digital goods. The only question is what the density is. 8KB per 3 oz. or 8GB per 1/8th oz. So you see, a digital collection vs.cartridge stash a matter of size and formfactor. I've said it elsewhere in other threads, but for educational and perspective purposes it bears repeating here. Cartridges of the past were a necessity borne out of technological limitations of the day. It was the easiest way to change out a Game Program or other circuitry in a safe and non-tech way. Today that isn't necessary. Nor is it desirable. Notes: 1- Certain media has better sex appeal than others. CD & optical is at the bottom of the barrel, the stuff you'd pick up in lower class neighborhoods. It's been spun around the block a few times. Moving up to HDD, you get a lot of bang for the buck, but it requires careful handling and only recently got a nice outfit for a night on the town. At the top is SSD and SD cards. These look the best and have the performance to back it up. You can abuse them and they come back for more. Ready to serve you instantly. Anytime any place baby! It does not matter at all why cartridges (or any other media for that matter) were used back in their day. Completely beside the point. The point is buying a physical object, one you can touch and put on a shelf, lend your friend, resell or smash to pieces if you like. Physically tangible objects just make many people feel better about buying something than just obtaining a license to use. Sure, SD cards are nice; but saving your stuff on them isn't the same as owning an official dedicated medium. Just as your burnt CD-R is not the same as an original one, even if the game is freely abailable. I love the PS Vita cards, which are not much else than a gloriefied pseudo SD card from what I can tell. But they are official, delivered like that from the publisher. Form factor does matter. We don't desire cars just because they are practical; we desire them to be fast, look cool AND be reliable and efficient if possible. This does not have to apply to everyone; but still many customers do prefer physical copies. It's not about an obsession to some specific medium, the fact that there has to be some medium to buy your products on is what matters. It hasn't been that long ago that the PSP Go failed badly, and one of the most feared features for the new console generation after always-online and DRM in general was that they might ditch the disc drive. The market has come a long way in the 2000s, and I am sure half the customers are okay with digital only. But at the same time, there is the other half that is not. Perfectly fine for you to see it the way you do. Many will agree. But just as many will disagree, and while not neccessary, it is absolutely desirable to keep physical media for those people. Well, if it is an old library book you can add the smell of urin from people who did not wash their hands, old food and sweat. Edited December 21, 2015 by 108 Stars 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StopDrop&Retro Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 (edited) Oh, man... I would KILL for a Fairchild Channel F Flashback ("Channel Flashback"?? It was meant to be!!) That controller is insane. @MotoRacer That info is pretty much true, but we still don't know exactly how the license to the Coleco name was acquired. So we don't know if he "bought" it for a fee or (as I suspect) he probably promised payment on a later date, maybe a share of the profits. Maybe even a share of the crowdfunding proceeds... Edited December 21, 2015 by StopDrop&Retro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixelboy Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Not really on topic, but regarding Raspberry Pi projects, I got an email from Jameco about a portable screen for Raspberry Pis. This would be wonderful for a portable console mod. I would definitely consider buying a kit project to turn the Raspberry Pi into a portable emulation console. Something Lynx or Game Gear sized (or possibly DMG Game Boy) would be totally doable. http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?&productId=2213253 That link isn't working for me, but from the product number in your link, I found this: http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10001_10001_2213253_-1 You know what I would find fun? To have a Raspberry-Pi enclosed in a Coleco arcade tabletop, with a screen like this. It's actually already been done, but I'd like to see a commercial version of it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7htPuVxjIYs Having to shut down the OS before turning the unit off is clearly a design problem for what is clearly a kid's toy, so maybe the Raspberry-Pi would not be a perfect fit for a product like this (unless the shutdown can be directly linked to the physical power switch) but the reason why I would prefer this over a handheld is because it has more of a "retro feel" to it, and because it makes a nice display piece. A handheld Raspberry-Pi is just another handheld to me, and there are like a billion of them out there, going back to the original Game Boy all the way to today's smartphones. Call me old-fashioned. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StopDrop&Retro Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Also, just FYI to all- I'm working on an RVGS episode right now and if anyone's good with photo shopping faces onto other people's bodies, let me know and you can get credited in the video. It's for a little joke I want to include in the end, if I can't make it happen no biggie. PM me if interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
108 Stars Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Love your vids, you have such a dry way of talking and explaining the most ridiculous things. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Indeed, it is a tale of tragedy. We have a pretty long thread on a German forum dating back from then. IndieGo had a TERRIBLE first campaign, and horrific communication. It seems to be mostly a one man show, and the guy reacted very hostile to constructive criticism. It eventually turned into a thread making fun of how bad everything was executed. Terrible grammar and spelling, confusing, agressive replies, arrogance... Now for the relaunch of the campaign he did finally take some advice. We sent him some improvements on the text (still no native speaker, but at least people who do know English somewhat), pulling details out of his nose about what actually is included in the project. In the end, what he promises to deliver is a fine product. It remains to be seen how well it is executed though. At least he says that in the meantime the system has been completed and is ready for production. Kinda reminds you of the RVGS / Cameleon fiasco, doesn't it? But these guys obviously pulled their heads out of their asses and delivered a viable product. I've yet to see any signs that Mike has learned a damned thing from the Indiegogo botch. If he pulls some BS at the Toy Fair, I'm afraid his reputation will be irreparably damaged. Does he not realize he's walking into the snake pit? Those guys don't play around. If the product isn't 100% finalized and ready to stock store shelves, with a manufacturing and distribution chain ready to start production at a moment's notice, Mike and Company will become the laughing stock of not only this thread but the entire industry. NEW manuals. You don't smell much of fresh print when a game is 2 decades old. That's not entirely true. I opened a sealed Lynx game (Elvira's Pinball) a few months back and the manual had that same fresh ink smell that I remember from when I was a kid. The key is the game is still in shrink wrap and the manual has never been removed from the packaging much less opened. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glazball Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 (edited) The new angle, "Coleco Chameleon", worked. A friend of mine sent me a link about this today on Gamespot as something he knew I would be interested in. Sadly, my friends do plays lots of games but not retro games. Even though I had been telling them about the Retro VGS (or lack thereof), he and many others really couldn't care less. However, when the name "Coleco" was used it got my friend's attention. Apparently the major gaming press too. From when I first read that Gamespot article this morning and now, the article was updated. It first read: "which Coleco says is a 'growing and popular genre'" but was changed to "which Coleco Holdings says..." The author had apparently thought yes, Coleco is making their big comeback! So here is my big concern. Consider me, still, foolishly - a supporter. Yes, I want a new cart based console. Bringing Coleco's name into it really makes me worry though. Legally would Mike have any obligation to try to protect Coleco's name and image, even if it's just a holding company that own Coleco? If Mike and team roll out a piece of shit that breaks in 2 months to meet some precious price point, would the name Coleco be tarnished forever? Again I fear the worst, but am hoping for the best. Edited December 22, 2015 by glazball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
108 Stars Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Coleco released the Adam. If that did not tarnish the name, I doubt the Chameleon will. I think it really only is a thing for retro fans nowadays anyway, and those will tell apart the good stuff of the past from the crap with their brand slapped on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 You know what I would find fun? To have a Raspberry-Pi enclosed in a Coleco arcade tabletop, with a screen like this. Next best thing would probably have been the ill-fated Starforce Pi or any other of the similar products. Anyhow, I think that everyone interested in these things should attempt to build their own. Whether it be an R-Pi or full-blown I7 - you'll learn alot and be all that better for having at least tried. It does not matter at all why cartridges (or any other media for that matter) were used back in their day. Completely beside the point. The point is buying a physical object, one you can touch and put on a shelf, lend your friend, resell or smash to pieces if you like. Physically tangible objects just make many people feel better about buying something than just obtaining a license to use. Sure, SD cards are nice; but saving your stuff on them isn't the same as owning an official dedicated medium. Just as your burnt CD-R is not the same as an original one, even if the game is freely abailable. I love the PS Vita cards, which are not much else than a gloriefied pseudo SD card from what I can tell. But they are official, delivered like that from the publisher. Form factor does matter. We don't desire cars just because they are practical; we desire them to be fast, look cool AND be reliable and efficient if possible. Form factor and ergonomics matter for physical things, like cars, or tools. Cars are not virtualizable yet. But videogames are, and have been since day one. Videogames by their very nature exist only in the digital dimension. So the car analogy doesn't really apply. Videogame hardware is simply a physical means of making the Game Program reveal itself. A method of access. A playback device. IDK about all you. But having all the VCS roms on one SD card means just about the same to me as my cartridge collection of the 70's and 80's did before it was destroyed. In fact I always wanted one box to contain them all. It only took some 35-odd years to achieve that. The essence of the Game Program is there, it's just not in a big burly imposing form factor consuming a section of the living room wall. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
108 Stars Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 I really do envy you for feeling that way. Makes things way more easy and practical. But it does not work the same for me and many others. Physical media are more, as are the systems themselves. So much more than playback devices. Sure as hell, a sexy console is to me like a great car is for others. The car is also just a means to get from one place to the other. Could look like ass as long as its primary reason for existing is there. Still people enjoy it just for its looks, polish it, take care no scratches happen. Virtual only is just good for a quick fix imo, and never satisfies. The program may be virtual, but everything around it, the hardware, medium, box, booklet... they simply cannot be adaquately replaced by virtual counterparts. You simply experience games very differently than I do. Emotional feelings can not be negated by rational reasoning. Had my collection burned down... I'd either rebuild or probably quit the hobby. And no, I am not one of those shelf collectors who never play. But both aspects, the quality game program and the physical components must be there for it to be enjoyable to me. I couldn't care less about my full Genesis ROMset on my Everdrive, or the multiple compilations with many of my favorite games ... I still hunt authentic copies of the games I like. The best those ROMs do for me is provide some entertainment while traveling, and giving me a chance to try a game before I buy. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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