+Random Terrain Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 If you build it, they will buy. Just don't use an X or an M in the name if you want good luck for shiny happy times. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+grips03 Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Kevin can your FPGA console load the games via USB drive or SD card vs. game cart? That would remove the need to support a bunch of cart adapters. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlaysWithWolves Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 OK, now you are overestimating the role played here. They are to blame for not having a working proto, and they do not have a working proto because they were dicking around with the specs up to the last minute when the price increase blew in their face. I agree completely with your post and the "strange" part was if we did get blamed since it was pretty clear what people were asking for. It just was speculation; perhaps unfair. I actually deleted it before you posted and since put it back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triverse Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Well, apparently to get the classic console emulation they HAVE to reach the 3.5 or whatever million dollar goal because the base FPGA won't be capable of doing the emulation (I am not sure how that works, probably something do with the number of gates and such). That is possibly a devastating problem for them as many people that might/are backing this think those classic consoles will be available no matter what.I did notice that the one part of the IGG campaign page dealing with the classic console emulation is seemingly written by a lawyer that has a problem with people understanding them. Could that be on purpose as the rest of the IGG campaign is written in plain English. Weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybird3rd Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Conversely, I think they may have inadvertantly left a very nice niche market open for someone like Kev to swoop in and capitalize on. Almost everyone remotely interested in retrogaming is watching -- even if it's the gawkers just for the schadenfreude. You have probably the largest captive audience of retrogamers you could possibly get short of a con with free booze and strippers. Someone who right now can produce what RetroVGS apparently cannot will have not only everyone's attention, but as a bonus a lot of the heavy lifting required to get that attention has already been done. Mike's treatment of Kev on these forums on the eve of the IGG campaign may have been the lynchpin for some who were undecided about their support of the project. I totally agree about how badly Kevtris was treated, and you could also be right about how the attention surrounding the RVGS might serve to open doors for other similar projects. Anyone who wants to capitalize on it would have to work awfully fast, though; attention spans are short, and audiences are fleeting. But it might be the best possible outcome: the RVGS team had their chance and blew it, but someone else may well be able to use that to achieve something positive. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mux Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 With regards to the question about joysticks and buttons on my 'stick-of-gum' board, they're actually on there! It's got a tiny 8-way joystick and 4 buttons. The joystick actually has a 5-th button which I used to insert coin(s). Going to back RVGS. I don't know guys.. I'm keeping tabs on it but they seem to be digging themselves into a hole. Maybe they've got more press lined up and will get a (large?) bump when Kotaku or Gamasutra or what not posts it, who knows. Like some other folks here, I also worked on games for the PS1 and 'reverse engineered' (i.e. disassembled the GTE codes to get better performance. Don't know if that's his claim to fame, but if it was... Well, that's not that great. Kevin, sounds like your cryonic stuff is pretty awesome. Pretty sure they've got plenty of quality control on both the hard- and software! Btw, on the XMOS version I actually managed to get color NTSC out *in software*. -Mux 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 (edited) With regards to the question about joysticks and buttons on my 'stick-of-gum' board, they're actually on there! It's got a tiny 8-way joystick and 4 buttons. The joystick actually has a 5-th button which I used to insert coin(s). That's sweet, man! Kevin can your FPGA console load the games via USB drive or SD card vs. game cart? That would remove the need to support a bunch of cart adapters. But then how would I run my homebews on it? If you build it, they will buy. Just don't use an X or an M in the name if you want good luck for shiny happy times. Well said. Another great reason why we should be weary of sending payment to those without working protos. That said, the XM looks like it will come to fruition at long last. RetroVGS; who knows... Edited September 21, 2015 by stardust4ever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_ocelot Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Going to back RVGS. I don't know guys.. I'm keeping tabs on it but they seem to be digging themselves into a hole. Maybe they've got more press lined up and will get a (large?) bump when Kotaku or Gamasutra or what not posts it, who knows. I have a feeling those Kotaku and Gamasutra articles might not come. The stench of the last year of gaming press scandals hasn't fully blown away. No online mag worth their salt is going to want to be singing the praises of a sinking ship lest they get pulled down too. Anyone reporting objectively on this mess will have to stand up to the accusations of dogpiling because, mark my words, RVGS are going to be playing the blame game in about a month or so. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tcdev Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 mark my words, RVGS are going to be playing the blame game in about a month or so. I don't think it's going to take quite that long for it to be obvious that the Indiegogo campaign is dead-in-the-water. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CyranoJ Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Hopefully they'll start selling cart cases at a reasonable price.... $8 for a shell? I can buy Checkered Flag for $5, and have a re-usable PCB as well, ffs! 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StopDrop&Retro Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 (edited) I am on their FB now helping with "damage control". They are not paying me, they probably wish I would stop actually, but since they aren't going to answer any questions, I may as well. Besides, it is just adding more meat to my next article on this thing (I plan on covering Piko and Kevin leaving among other things). Should be interesting. For those interested, I am working on relaunching RGM (probably around the first of next year). We plan to use 32-bit color, HD images and possibly an ARM to turn the pages. I'll keep an eye out for your relaunch. Seriously, taking your magazine to Kickstarter was ahead of its time. I didn't really follow Kickstarter around the time you were on there. In fact, I thought Mike's magazine was the first retro gaming magazine ever on there and so I thought his idea was novel. If I had seen yours, I would have contributed. You guys crank out articles real quick. I'll keep an eye on your site and for the possible relaunch. EDIT: Kevin can your FPGA console load the games via USB drive or SD card vs. game cart? That would remove the need to support a bunch of cart adapters. That's what I'm talking about. I just need a few adapters but the majority I'd like to just play off a card if I can still get original-quality performance. Kevtris, if you could find a way to make your FPGA wizzardry work with Rasberry Pi2 your market would increase tenfold overnight. Why not try to partner up with Dragonbox? They've got a lot of experience with adapters and they're going to try to launch the Retropi on Kickstarter sometime soon so they know what they're doing with tooling. http://retropi.de/ The main guy is behind the Pandra but he's the good guy, the one that steered the project back on course. The British guy that scammed people went off to scam more people with iControlPad2. Edited September 21, 2015 by StopDrop&Retro 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevtris Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 As requested, I started a new topic and poll over in the Classic Game thread about my FPGA videogame doodad. The link is here for those interested: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/242970-fpga-based-videogame-system/ re: my system playing games off SD cards and such, yes it does that now. That's how I have been testing it. 16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mux Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 but but but... PCB? -Mux Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybird3rd Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 New update to their FB page. More mention about Apple, Atari, Sega, etc. More talk about how you can hand this console down to your children. Zero talk about the hardware specs or any actual, physical proof that this exists. In other words, more snake oil. I just noticed that some users on NeoGAF have cross-posted the latest RVGS Facebook update (I'm not on Facebook so I can't see it firsthand). Check out the smugness in §2: Hey Everyone! First off, I wanted to come in here and say that we are very appreciative of those of you who have contributed to our campaign so far. In what are typically slow crowdfunding days, to hit $50K in our first 24-hours was amazing. First off, as a gamer myself, I have to say that it's amazing to have two tried-and-true game industry veterans working with me to bring RETRO VGS to life. Unlike many of the people who are infesting this project with negativity, people who have never written a line of code or developed any marketable hardware of any sort, Steve Woita and John Carlsen have been actually making successful and fun gaming software and hardware for a few decades for companies like Apple, Atari, Sega, Nintendo, Tengen, Activision, Iguana Entertainment, etc. We have all previously enjoyed the fruits of their labors and will continue to do so if RETRO VGS becomes reality. And, I want everyone to know they have been putting their heart and soul into the design of RETRO VGS and we (myself and all of you) are damn lucky to have this caliber of people involved. These are not fly-by-night game hobbyists but real life engineers who know a lot about bringing successful video game products to market. I am in great hands having these two guys as partners and I know the machine they are building will be great, just like everything else they have produced in their careers. We've done what we can to get this machine in the $300-$350 range and realize it might be a stretch for many of you. But, in the end, if you want to play some great new retro style/influenced games on cartridge, and have these games to play for years to come, then you will enjoy owning this system. If you are like me, and haven't bought a new video game in years, and want to get back into gaming and play games like you loved growing up then you will enjoy owning this system. If you have children and want to give them a system that can grow with them and be there years later when they want to play and collect the games they played growing up, then you will love owning this system. If you are tired of being forced to download your games, patch your games and sit through common and lengthy system updates, then you will love the simplicity of this system. Now, I may not be a seasoned industry professional with decades of experience, but I don't think this is a very endearing attitude to take toward your potential customers and backers. However, I have written many lines of code in my time, both as a developer and as a programming instructor, and I have created some simple hardware that I have successfully marketed here and there (including several real working PCBs, which is more than can be said for the RVGS). That experience, however meager it may be compared to these Captains of Industry, only strengthens my conviction that their whole approach with the RVGS is laughably wrongheaded. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StopDrop&Retro Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 (edited) but but but... PCB? -Mux Yeah, but I mean as an add on board. Someone else suggested so I figured the idea wasn't completely stupid. Just an idea to throw out there. If it could work it could make Kevtris' board explode in popularity. Think about it, people are using their Pi's to emulate and it's never 100% perfect. But if there's a board you could buy that recreates original hardware, every Pi retro gamer would want one. Again, it could be completely stupid and impossible, only Kevin knows. Edited September 21, 2015 by StopDrop&Retro 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenixdownita Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 He created a topic for it: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/242970-fpga-based-videogame-system/ go espress yourself there, I already did. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 (edited) That's what I'm talking about. I just need a few adapters but the majority I'd like to just play off a card if I can still get original-quality performance. Kevtris, if you could find a way to make your FPGA wizzardry work with Rasberry Pi2 your market would increase tenfold overnight. Why not try to partner up with Dragonbox? They've got a lot of experience with adapters and they're going to try to launch the Retropi on Kickstarter sometime soon so they know what they're doing with tooling. http://retropi.de/ The main guy is behind the Pandra but he's the good guy, the one that steered the project back on course. The British guy that scammed people went off to scam more people with iControlPad2. This looks awesome. I noticed they are announcing adapters for support of Game Boy and N64. Will these work with existing Retrode adpaters??? I have Retrode adapters for GB and N64 so it would be great if I could reuse them. As requested, I started a new topic and poll over in the Classic Game thread about my FPGA videogame doodad. The link is here for those interested: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/242970-fpga-based-videogame-system/ re: my system playing games off SD cards and such, yes it does that now. That's how I have been testing it. Voted and subbed. Your stuff looks amazing! Edited September 21, 2015 by stardust4ever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mux Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 (edited) I was talking about the new 'prototype' for RVGS. It shows fuck all.. Just another render / picture of a case! FWIW with regards to their FB message: 27 years in game development with 10+ years in hardware development.. [Edit: Nevermind... That's the very first shell they had on the first page] So yeah, I've written 'a couple of lines of code in my life' -Mux Edited September 21, 2015 by Mux 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CyranoJ Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 If you are like me, and haven't bought a new video game in years, and want to get back into gaming and play games like you loved growing up then you will enjoy owning this system. If you have children and want to give them a system that can grow with them and be there years later when they want to play and collect the games they played growing up, then you will love owning this system. If you are tired of being forced to download your games, patch your games and sit through common and lengthy system updates, then you will love the simplicity of this system. Yeah, that's what gog.com is for... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insert Coin Toys Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 (edited) Wow, this is *so* much worse than what I thought. This whole situation makes me so sad. It made no sense to me why they couldn't make a prototype. They claimed they were out of money and it was too expensive. Thank you Kevtris for clearing this up. A couple grand is exactly what I was thinking a prototype would cost. They should have sold more Jag molds first and used that money to fund the board prototype. Apple made their first prototype on a shoestring budget. Glad to see those days aren't over. Monty Edited September 21, 2015 by Insert Coin Toys 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_ocelot Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 (edited) I don't think it's going to take quite that long for it to be obvious that the Indiegogo campaign is dead-in-the-water. Well, I was trying to be generous. The IGG camPain (not a spelling mistake!) has 44 days left. I figure 3/4 of the way through some reality would break through the distortion field surrounding the Retro guys. Besides, someone who was willing to dump a key partner and shuffle the hardware specs the day BEFORE the campaign started is also just as likely to begin slinging mud before the campaign is over. edit: Besides, how was I supposed to know things would plateau after only 24h? Edited September 21, 2015 by rob_ocelot 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sh3-rg Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 (edited) Anyone reporting objectively on this mess will have to stand up to the accusations of dogpiling because, mark my words, RVGS are going to be playing the blame game in about a month or so. Effectively Parrothead already began the process here with his ERQ post and off into the night he went. Apparently there's nothing in these threads that remotely constitutes constructive criticism... I think some of use see things differently, but maybe that's a lot easier from the outside looking in. From as far back as April, there has been much written that could have directly helped their cause immeasurably, but akin to their surprising treatment and failure to capitalise on seemingly their best asset in all this - namely, kevtris - they prefer to maintain their blinkered "we know best" attitude and head off further down the rabbit hole... and it's all the haters and people who have never written a single line of code in their lives or designed a single circuit that are whipping up unrest and ruining their kickstarter indiegogo masterplan. That's pretty damn insulting given that many of the people in this thread and others like it on GAF have designed and realised hardware projects, have written, released, published and gone on to support games and development tools, and maybe don't actually have much to do at all with facebook and other social media where a lot of the intended target audience - the gamers themselves - are making their own feelings known and making comments here look timid in comparison (and also largely being ignored or simply deleted by some reports). But I suppose they are all just blind sheep being led astray by the haters, amirite? Questionable funding practises. Indiegogo over kickstarter. Adding in games and peripherals to pledge results in artificially inflating total and potentially reaching target prematurely. Alarm bells are ringing. Misleading campaign and pre-campaign information How many of the 150 or so people who pledged for a RVGS console are aware that it will only be their unique system and not able to simulate all the others via FGPA unless the $3.8m total is reached? Not many I'd bet. No contracts with 3rd parties to ensure vital elements of project will be in place. kevtris left hanging and only required should their $3.8m target be reached? Amateur hour. No NDAs. Skeletons liberally evacuating closets left and right. And that actually a good thing for anyone not directly involved, as the insight gained through 2 or 3 posts tells more of the story and how this played out than half a year of RVGS's own PR. Spin. They talk of negative spin from "naysayers", but almost every statement the head honcho put out is up there with Don Mattrick circa 2013. The campaign console comparison chart was misleading, ill-conceived and selective. The anti-Ouya talk directly conflicts with his own prior Ouya coverage, etc., etc. Being honest, open and holding your hands up when you just don't know is much more endearing to potential supporters than playing the blame game or making it up as you go along and knee-jerking project-changing decisions without considering how they might affect the wider goals (for instance the lolsome game testing procedures they claim to have in place after being questioned regarding how they might ensure bug-free, unpatchable, cartridge games - completely unworkable and financially impractical). Basically, seems like they have no idea WTF they are doing on any level and have probably long forgotten why as they seek to say or do whatever is necessary to reach that $1.95m target... Edited September 21, 2015 by sh3-rg 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sh3-rg Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 It begins... Lewie's thoughts: http://savygamer.co.uk/2015/09/21/please-do-not-give-retro-vgs-any-of-your-money/ 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mckafka99 Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 I think Kevtris having actual software and hardware would win people back, I think. Any bets on developer board pictures incoming? It's going to be so strange getting the blame for this, should the campaign fail. If I had seen Kevtris' work with his list of cores as part of the campaign (and perhaps even a mock up of what a cartridge adaptor may have looked like), I may very well have bitten the bullet and taken a chance on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlaysWithWolves Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 I'm not sure if this was posted or referred to earlier in this thread, but the whole Kevtris discussion continued over on Facebook; replete with RetroVGS replies. This single excerpt from RetroVGS is pretty telling: There was no console shell, no games, no controllers, etc. AND he was going to try and get $200-$250 for it. Priories, Kevtris! How dare you have no console shell for your working prototype. Having no shell for an early version of your console is like not having a flag to conquer countries: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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