Why Jaguar?

[Thunderbird]

Yeah flip the lid open on  the jag cd , and u cant tell me it doenst look like a toilet bowl.You ask a stupid question u get a stupid answer.

 

You must only use some bizarre female-designed toilet where the lid only opens 45 degress. My toilet doesn't look like that at all, the lid goes up past 90 degrees and stays there, except when I am pooping (when it is lowered for the application of my butt)

[+Saturn]

Yeah flip the lid open on  the jag cd , and u cant tell me it doenst look like a toilet bowl.You ask a stupid question u get a stupid answer.

 

You must only use some bizarre female-designed toilet where the lid only opens 45 degress. My toilet doesn't look like that at all, the lid goes up past 90 degrees and stays there, except when I am pooping (when it is lowered for the application of my butt)

 

[midwest_cdn]

Didnt u hear it called that whne the jag cd came out? also if u look at a public toilet( try not to ) u will see the resemblance.

[shep]

Yeah flip the lid open on  the jag cd , and u cant tell me it doenst look like a toilet bowl.You ask a stupid question u get a stupid answer.

 

...stupid answer indeed..

[scrummy]

I dont think that you could say it looked like any toilet that I have used. I think that most toilets in most places are similar. I think perhaps you are thinking of JEff Minter who would mention what CD's were playing on the VLM at any given time, is this what you are thinking of.

One problem is that the JAg CD will not operate with the cover up, unless you modify with paperclips, for changing CD's----DONT CUT YOURSELF!- but that would be a big problem for number 2, or make splatter with number 1.

Another major issue would be the size, it cant be larger than 1/10 the normal commode bowl. Although I would flush with the B button, and use the A button for a rinse mode, and then the C button would turn on any available exhaust fans.

[shep]

I hate when people just make fun a console. I mean constructive critisism is excepted even encouraged, yet, stupid childish comments like that make me ashamed to be a gamer sometime...this is partly why people think this is a "kids hobby" because of people like that...

[Atari_Owl]

Yeah flip the lid open on the jag cd , and u cant tell me it doenst look like a toilet bowl.You ask a stupid question u get a stupid answer.

 

Hmmm

 

Thinking back to university days, the toilets in some of the student houses were about the same colour

[Thunderbird]

I dont think that you could say it looked like any toilet that I have used. I think that most toilets in most places are similar. I think perhaps you are thinking of JEff Minter who would mention what CD's were playing on the VLM at any given time, is this what you are thinking of.

One problem is that the JAg CD will not operate with the cover up, unless you modify with paperclips, for changing CD's----DONT CUT YOURSELF!- but that would be a big problem for number 2, or make splatter with number 1.

Another major issue would be the size, it cant be larger than 1/10 the normal commode bowl. Although I would flush with the B button, and use the A button for a rinse mode, and then the C button would turn on any available exhaust fans.

 

 

I agree with that assesment. I've never seen a toilet anywhere on the earth where the base of the toilet was bigger than the bowl. Most toliets I have seen also have a tank for the water above the bowl.

 

The Jag doesn't look like a toilet any more than a can of paint does. Both have a round opening on top with a lid. That's the extent of the similarities.

 

The whole toilet thing was just yet another stupid bash of the Jaguar cooked up by the magazines to hurt the Jag for whatever reason.

[holy_fluck]

People that have been jag bashing have been justified in a sense because the system is not a great system by any means, there was just too much wasted potential and that is why it gets bashed, I mean its supposed to be a 64 bit system and how many games on that system couldnt be done on 3do or in alot of cases a 16 bit system. Also why is it that the neo-geo is a far superior system in graphics, sound, and game play, and that is a 24 bit system. Dont get me wrong i own a jag and have had a bit of enjoyment with it. Magazines bashed the jag and jag cd cause they had every right too.

[Mendon]

All of this begs the questions to be asked....

 

[*]Why do public toilets have the little piece missing from the front of the seat but your home toilet seat is a complete circle/oval?????

 

[*]Why is it that no matter what color the bar of soap is (blue, yellow, etc) that the lather is always white???????

 

[*] Why do you always see the "First Church of Christ" or the "First Baptist Church" but you never see the Second, Third, or Fourth?????????

 

Inquiring minds wanna know!!

 

Mendon

[AtariX]

People that have been jag bashing have been justified in a sense because the system is not a great system by any means, there was just too much wasted potential and that is why it gets bashed, I mean its supposed to be a 64 bit system and how many games on that system couldnt be done on 3do or in alot of cases a 16 bit system. Also why is it that the neo-geo is a far superior system in graphics, sound, and game play, and that is a 24 bit system. Dont get me wrong i own a jag and have had a bit of enjoyment with it. Magazines bashed the jag and jag cd cause they had every right too.

 

The Jaguar received far more criticism than other systems that weren’t that popular. Especially from mags such as EGM. I feel that EGM busted on the Jag more than the Neo Geo, NGPC, Turbo Duo, Sega CD, 3DO and Virtual Boy combined. EGM was anti-Atari, even before the Jag. This bias was not only in jokes about the Jaguar, the bias also carried over to game reviews as well.

 

As for comparing the Neo Geo to the Jag. The Jag has a more well rounded library of games. If you’re not a fan of fighters, the Neo Geo has a very weak game line-up. As for graphics, the Jag is better than the Neo Geo as well. The Neo Geo could only dream to do 3D games such as AVP, Doom, HS: Unconquered Lands, Missile Command 3D, Battlemorph, etc. The KOF and Samurai Shodown series are better fighters than anything on the Jag, but I feel that Ultra Vortek, Kasumi Ninja and Primal Rage have better graphics.

[kevincal]

People that have been jag bashing have been justified in a sense because the system is not a great system by any means, there was just too much wasted potential and that is why it gets bashed, I mean its supposed to be a 64 bit system and how many games on that system couldnt be done on 3do or in alot of cases a 16 bit system. Also why is it that the neo-geo is a far superior system in graphics, sound, and game play, and that is a 24 bit system. Dont get me wrong i own a jag and have had a bit of enjoyment with it. Magazines bashed the jag and jag cd cause they had every right too.

 

Well, first off, isn't the Neo Geo 16-bit? It seems the gaming magazines of the past have done a number on you my friend, because the Neo Geo DOES NOT have "far superior graphics" in any way. Have you seen any Alien Versus Predator, Tempest 2000, or Doom type of games on the NEO? The Neo has mostly 2d games am I correct, well, the Jag happens to be very powerfull in the 2d department as well. Just take a look at the Native Demo to see what I'm talking about, heck just look at Rayman. I believe magazines bashed the Jag because of the way Atari handled its media presence i.e. the didn't sway the magazine editors opinions through the use of certain "benefits" that the likes of Nintendo, Sega, and Sony used such as free games, banquets, and high powered marketing through tv etc etc...so in a sense A LOT of people are brain washed by what we read, instead, I advise you to just play more good Jag games and judge for yourself, oh and I highly doubt a Neo could do justice to Battlesphere... :wink:

[Stone]

Well, first off, isn't the Neo Geo 16-bit?  It seems the gaming magazines of the past have done a number on you my friend, because the Neo Geo DOES NOT have "far superior graphics" in any way.  Have you seen any Alien Versus Predator, Tempest 2000, or Doom type of games on the NEO?

 

The statement is true if you revise it to 'far superior 2D gfx'. The NeoGeo approach is to literally throw memory at a problem until it goes away...to date no other system has had carts anywhere near the sizes used by the NeoGeo (recent releases at 890-odd Megabits anyone? That's a 110 megaBYTE cart!) and the storage space seems to be primarily used for astoundingly large bitmaps with unprecendented levels of animation. No other 2D system can afford to have as many frames of animation for tiny objects in the background as for the principal characters, and it shows! (watch a Metal Slug 4 video )

 

The Neo has mostly 2d games am I correct, well, the Jag happens to be very powerfull in the 2d department as well.  Just take a look at the Native Demo to see what I'm talking about, heck just look at Rayman.

 

Native is a good example (the closest game to it on the NeoGeo is probably Blazing Star) but though it looks better overall (mainly because of the higher resolution used), Blazing Star still blows it away in terms of total sprites onscreen, total frames of animation, etc etc.

 

Remember: the Jag was designed in a way that made it good at 2D and OK at 3D, since it was uncertain whether 3D was really the way to go at the time. By contrast, the NeoGeo was designed to dump high-quality sprites from cartspace to the screenbuffer as efficiently as possible, making it astonishingly good at 2D but completely unable to do 3D (the nearest it got was 3/4 view isometric things like Viewpoint). The NeoGeo is a 2D system, pure and simple: as an arcade machine it had one HELL of a lot of fighters made for it, which universally feature very large player sprites, neat for the time scale/zoom effects (which look pretty damn blocky, mind you) and generally high-detail sprites. You really can't compare 2D performance of the NeoGeo against the Jag, because although the Jag is an overall faster (and better) system, with a larger bus and lots of available bandwidth, it's restricted by cart storage space issues. The smallest NeoGeo cart is still way bigger than the largest Jag cart, and because of this lack of high-speed storage, the Jag was consistently unable to match the better NeoGeo efforts: there always had to be a compromise between gfx file size and quality, so although the nicer gfx on the Jag are indeed nicer than the NeoGeo's, making them as nice as the system allows prevents you from having enough of them to make a decent game. Raw storage space can conceal surprisingly large design deficits: an example would be King of Fighters 1996, for example. While Ultra Vortek matches the graphics quality available, it does this at the cost of lacking many player characters - it has 8 or so (from memory). KoF'96 has 27! And all have their own sprites (not recoloured ripoffs of other characters *cough* Genesis *cough*). And they all have their own special moves with mostly-unique sprites! Sure, some of the generic ones (fireballs etc) get reused, but the raw cart space makes up for huge differences architecture-wise from NeoGeo to Jag. OK, Jag games generally run in a higher resolution than NeoGeo ones, but the 2D Jag games are still pretty much prevented from taking advantage of the HUGE power available in the system by the lack of storage space. If a NeoGeo game can afford to spend 4MB of cartspace on each character then they're inevitable going to look better than the Jag versions where 4MB has to hold the entire game! Even though the main NeoGeo tactic seems to be to make the sprites huge to show off all the detail, it works just fine - using a TV smaller than 20" or so makes them end up looking better than on the Jag anyway.

 

Mind you, as soon as you mention Jag's 3D capabilities, the NeoGeo falls over - it's not designed for it, and it can't do it. Just pointing out that the Jaguar gets it's backside soundly thrashed by the NeoGeo in the 2D arena Don't get me wrong, I love my Jag, but I bought it for the 3D aspect (because older 3D games always interested me, before the PSX introduced the concept of texturemapping everything, which I think was one of the main reasons the games industry now is such a mess). In 2D, against the NeoGeo, it loses miserably

 

so in a sense A LOT of people are brain washed by what we read, instead, I advise you to just play more good Jag games and judge for yourself

Lol, a great example here: the NeoGeo is widely quoted as a 24-bit system, but this was entirely due to SNK marketing it this way...someone came up with the bright idea of adding the 8-bit Z80 to the 16-bit 68K

 

oh and I highly doubt a Neo could do justice to Battlesphere...  :wink:

 

Amen to that

 

Stone

[Chaotix]

Wow, well I'm new to jags, just got mine a week ago, purely to play T2K, which is in the post.

 

Sounds like there are lots of other reasons for me to have bought it though- I'm dying to get a CD add-on and try it out as a toilet.

[t.skid]

Get a JagCD and try it with BattleMorph, you will have more fun.

[holy_fluck]

Neo a 16 bit system? the jag is not really 64 bit then right? Like i said, i'm a jag owner and i'm not bashing it but the neo and 3do do have "far superior" graphics. I'll correct my self as someone pointed the neo is far superior in 2d and 3do in 3d. Actually I'll throw in another system that I think can compete and do as much as the jag can and that is the 32X. The 32x can do any jag game and that is not a 64 bit system. I own these systems and can compare them, granted i only have a very small number of neo games (cause they are damn too expensive), i do have a fair number of 3do games and played enough of 32x to judge. I'm saying that there isnt much on the jag that can be done on the systems that i mentioned above. I will agree with you though the jag did get more than enough bad press, mostly from EGM, they had a number of jag games on the worst ever feature and didnt think it was justified.

[+Saturn]

the jag is not really 64 bit then right? Like i said, i'm a jag owner and i'm not bashing it but the neo and 3do do have "far superior" graphics. I'll correct my self as someone pointed the neo is far superior in 2d and 3do in 3d. Actually I'll throw in another system that I think can compete and do as much as the jag can and that is the 32X. The 32x can do any jag game and that is not a 64 bit system. I  own these systems and can compare them, granted i only have  a very small number of neo games (cause they are damn too expensive), i do have a fair number of 3do games and played enough of 32x to judge. I'm saying that there isnt much on the jag that can be done on the systems that i mentioned above.

 

[kevincal]

Hi Stone, Yeah those Neo Geo carts sure do hold A LOT of memory and indeed there are many grade "A" quality 2d shooters and fighters on the Neo. I wish I COULD AFFORD a Neo Geo and it's game$ though lol, but I'll have to wait to win the lottery until I start collecting for that system but I remember circa 10 years ago whenthe Neo Geo was the "GOD" of videogame systems, because of how rare and expensive they were..and at first someone told me it was 64 bit lol, then a few years later i was believing it was 24-bit..and FINALLY, I have come to realize it's actually 16-bit

 

hi holy_fluck, I also had a 32X and I remember arguing with my friends that had Jags that 32X Doom was better that the Jag version (mind you I was 14)...It seems to me that people tend to be partial to the systems they own and without playing other systems they always side with their system. I eventually bought a Jag after my 32X and realized how much better Doom was on the Jag than on the 32X more levels, better graphics and sound effects (yeah, in-game music woula been nice) but anyway, glad you have a Jag and you should look into increasing your Jag library with the many good and great games it has to offer...then maybe you'll become a Jagophile like the rest of us....

[shep]

Neo a 16 bit system? the jag is not really 64 bit then right? Like i said, i'm a jag owner and i'm not bashing it but the neo and 3do do have "far superior" graphics. I'll correct my self as someone pointed the neo is far superior in 2d and 3do in 3d. Actually I'll throw in another system that I think can compete and do as much as the jag can and that is the 32X. The 32x can do any jag game and that is not a 64 bit system. I  own these systems and can compare them, granted i only have  a very small number of neo games (cause they are damn too expensive), i do have a fair number of 3do games and played enough of 32x to judge. I'm saying that there isnt much on the jag that can be done on the systems that i mentioned above. I will agree with you though the jag did get more than enough bad press, mostly from EGM, they had a number of jag games on the worst ever feature and didnt think it was justified.

 

You need to just shutup, until you go and read what a bit actually is, because so for your just judging the consoles on "bit counts". Get your facts straight, thats why I said your mindlessly bashing a console...because you don't know what in the heck your talking about...

[Stone]

Hi Stone, Yeah those Neo Geo carts sure do hold A LOT of memory and indeed there are many grade "A" quality 2d shooters and fighters on the Neo.  I wish I COULD AFFORD a Neo Geo and it's game$ though lol, but I'll have to wait to win the lottery until I start collecting for that system   but I remember circa 10 years ago whenthe Neo Geo was the "GOD" of videogame systems, because of how rare and expensive they were..and at first someone told me it was 64 bit lol, then a few years later i was believing it was 24-bit..and FINALLY, I have come to realize it's actually 16-bit    

 

You're obviously talking about the home system... the arcade version (NeoGeo MVS) has much cheaper games (they don't usually go over $100) and the console won't cost you more than $60 if you scout around eBay regularly enough. That's my plan, anyway

 

Neo a 16 bit system? the jag is not really 64 bit then right?

Lets not go there, but the Neo is 16-bit. The 24-bit thing was invented by SNK to make it sound more impressive against the Genesis, precisely because people would equate the two 16-bit systems as equal and not see that the Neo's VAST carts would make it amazing on the gfx front.

 

The 32x can do any jag game and that is not a 64 bit system.

The 32X is a bolted-on hack to a decent 16-bit platform, but that doesn't make it equally good, because developers tried very hard to make it do things it really couldn't cope with. There is NO WAY the 32X could handle T2K or Iron Soldier...lower-res Rayman or Defender maybe. Doom on the 32X is a complete joke, hence the '32X Doom mode' in NBA Jam on the Jag, in which the developers quite rightly take the piss out of it quite mercilessly. All hail to them.

 

Stone

[Atari_Owl]

Neo a 16 bit system? the jag is not really 64 bit then right?

 

Wow guy, you really don't have a clue do you?

I refer you to the very top thread in this forum, since this is a tiresome line of discussion which has been done to death over many years.

 

Like i said, i'm a jag owner and i'm not bashing it but the neo and 3do do have "far superior" graphics. I'll correct my self as someone pointed the neo is far superior in 2d and 3do in 3d. Actually I'll throw in another system that I think can compete and do as much as the jag can and that is the 32X. The 32x can do any jag game and that is not a 64 bit system.  

 

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight

 

Come back when you have a clue.

[TheBizDude]

The Lynx has games that are better than some on the Jag.

I believe that's -what- an 8-bit soapdish

[Gunstar]

Well, I have Jag, 3DO and 32X (as well as the Saturn, PSX, and others) and from my personal experience with a broad range of games, the Jag and 3DO are about equal, both have superiorities and defincaincies to each other in different areas, but overall, the same power. The 32X, while it is a decent hack job, with some decent games on it I like, it CAN NOT hold a candle to the Jaguar in any way, shape, or form. Yes, there are a few 32X games, the good ones, that are better than some Jag games, the bad ones, but the 32X can't compete with you take good games from both systems and compare them side-by-side, e.g.-32xDoom vs. JagDoom, StarWars arcade&Shadow Squadron vs. Battlesphere&Battlemorph, Rayman vs. Knuckles, T-mek vs. I-war or even HoverStrike:UL, Metal Head vs. Iron Soldier 1 or 2, the Jag blows away the 32X on every count! Now, you could look at 32X motorcross, which is all right, and compare it to Jag Supercross, which sucks terribly, and the 32X outshine in overall performance, but Supercross should never have been released, it's an incomplete piece of crap.

[holy_fluck]

Guys, guys, it was not my intent to "bash" the jag, like i said i'm an owner and i like to try to defend the jag when i can, you can say i'm a fan, but definately not a fan boy. I respect your peoples opinions as this froum is created to have some debates about the jag and other atari systems. As i do realize this is a pro-atari forum i can see your love and admiration for the system but can you guys see the side that i'm coming from? The jag, as you guys are nicely pointing out to me, is a very powerful system, more powerful than the neo, 3do, 32x etc. but i'm left to wonder why to me the games have not shown what can truly be done. Gunstar and Kevincal have pointed out some comparisons to some 32x games and nicely mind you and not calling names or what ever. Yes Doom is better from what i understand and much better i might ad, but how about games like nba jam? or comparing Virtua Racing to Checkered flag, Kasumi Ninja to MK2 or Tevor Mcfur to Kolibri, now i havent played battlesphere and probably never will but if it is as good as people say it is then i might correct myself and say the jag blows away the 32x in every count but as it stands right now no. and not the 3do either. But for the record i have a clue and i'm not biased towards or against any system, i'm just saying that as good as the jag is or whatever i just think that it shouldve been more

[Atari_Owl]

Nope, it still doesn't work, even for your backtracking

 

but how about games like nba jam? or comparing Virtua Racing to Checkered flag, Kasumi Ninja to MK2 or Tevor Mcfur to Kolibri, now i havent played battlesphere and probably never will but if it is as good as people say it is then i might correct myself and say the jag blows away the 32x in every count but as it stands right now no.

 

The Jag version of NBA Jam I'm pretty sure i read somewhere as considered by the authors to be the best version.

 

The other comparisons are again highly unfair comparisons, I could claim almost anything by pitching best games against worst for different consoles.

 

Instead of Virtua Racing vs. Checkered flag (incidently mainly a propblem of the control system than obviously deficientgraphics) why not consider World Tour Racing instead

 

Native vs. Kolibri instead of Crescent Galaxy.

Ultra Vortek vs. MK2.

 

I could make the N64 look like nothing if the game i chose was Superman64.

 

The fact remains you made outlandish claims of

i'm not bashing it but the neo and 3do do have "far superior" graphics.  

 

which are blatantly not the case. If you compare best with best, which is the only FAIR way to compare, then your arguement holds no water, and certainly APPEARS to be bashing or deliberate contrariness.