Atari 2600 RGB mod

[john_q_atari]

I just saw the news. I bought a spare one awhile back just in case as I thought the $80AUD I think I paid was a very reasonable cost for what was being offered. At least the posted notice indicates he is open to developing an equivalent product in the future.

[+MrZarniwoop]

15 minutes ago, -^CrossBow^- said:

I assume his board is converting the actual Lum and sync signals off the TIA pins to generate the converted image that it outputs?

From the 2600RGB website:

 

"It works in a similar manner to my NESRGB board. That is, it sits between the CPU and TIA (the name of the Atari graphics chip) and stores the data which meant to be written to the TIA palette registers. The TIA is fed with dummy colours instead. The various luma outputs from the TIA, in addition to the colour data stored is then used to create a RGB version of the original video signal. Essentially, the board creates the RGB video signal by bypassing the colour generation logic in the TIA. The video timing is unchanged."

[M-S]

I think the mod was out of production from a few months ago already. I wanted to see if I could get a response from Tim himself, but it doesn't seem like he would answer, I think I'll tag @Yurkie.

[+-^CrossBow^-]

On 9/26/2023 at 3:23 PM, M-S said:

I think the mod was out of production from a few months ago already. I wanted to see if I could get a response from Tim himself, but it doesn't seem like he would answer, I think I'll tag @Yurkie.

I was told this by one of my clients that reached out to Tim and got an answer from Tim stating what you did about the boards not being cost feasible to have made currently and it would require a redesign.

 

[turbo graphics 220]

On 9/27/2023 at 6:23 AM, M-S said:

I think the mod was out of production from a few months ago already. I wanted to see if I could get a response from Tim himself, but it doesn't seem like he would answer, I think I'll tag @Yurkie.

I'm really surprised because his website and ebay store were working fine just a few weeks ago. I've been using his 2600 kit since it was new and it has been working perfectly even to this day but actually I just use the composite output. An extra bonus is that I didn't know when buying this is that NTSC games work with the correct colour on my PAL system if you change the pallete which can be changed using the extra button mod. The extra button on the controller is super convenient for games that you need to reset a lot like in dragster. Now I see there is a new composite mod that is about as expensive as this kit was that people are getting when they could have just got this one instead years ago.

[+-^CrossBow^-]

4 hours ago, turbo graphics 220 said:

I'm really surprised because his website and ebay store were working fine just a few weeks ago. I've been using his 2600 kit since it was new and it has been working perfectly even to this day but actually I just use the composite output. An extra bonus is that I didn't know when buying this is that NTSC games work with the correct colour on my PAL system if you change the pallete which can be changed using the extra button mod. The extra button on the controller is super convenient for games that you need to reset a lot like in dragster. Now I see there is a new composite mod that is about as expensive as this kit was that people are getting when they could have just got this one instead years ago.

What new composite kit? Far as I know they're aren't any composite kits or otherwise that can provide composite that cost anything near the cost of the 2600 RGB kit did?

[juansolo]

8 hours ago, -^CrossBow^- said:

What new composite kit? Far as I know they're aren't any composite kits or otherwise that can provide composite that cost anything near the cost of the 2600 RGB kit did?

If you want to dispair at some of the BS that's out there, click on the link:

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/133754808637

 

Not only does this individual commit the unforgivable crime of assembling veroboard on the wrong side, they're selling less than £5 in parts for £100 and can't be arsed to assemble it.

 

Over 100 'kits' sold... Let that sink in.

Edited September 28, 2023 by juansolo

[+-^CrossBow^-]

6 minutes ago, juansolo said:

If you want to dispair at some of the BS that's out there, click on the link:

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/133754808637

 

Not only does this individual commit the unforgivable crime of soldering veroboard on the wrong side, they're selling less than £5 in parts for £100 and can't be arsed to assemble it.

 

Over 100 'kits' sold...

There is no way they are making that off each kit. It is just the simple transistor composite amp circuit. So yeah, anyone buying into those is not doing any amount of homework. Even a UAV from here in the states with shipping to the UK isn't going to cost that? Retrosix's clean comp is also much more available for those in the UK and more affordable for them as well.

 

 

 

 

[juansolo]

5 minutes ago, -^CrossBow^- said:

There is no way they are making that off each kit. It is just the simple transistor composite amp circuit. So yeah, anyone buying into those is not doing any amount of homework. Even a UAV from here in the states with shipping to the UK isn't going to cost that? Retrosix's clean comp is also much more available for those in the UK and more affordable for them as well.

RGB Kit here used to be about £80. Can usually get UAVs shipped here for £40ish. Seeing stuff like that kit on eBay just makes my blood boil.

[Atari Dogs]

I reached out to a guy guy in Columbus Ohio that advertises he can install mods.  He told me the US distributor of Tim Worthington's mod mod has it in stock.  I am waiting to hear who the distributor is.

[+-^CrossBow^-]

11 hours ago, Atari Dogs said:

I reached out to a guy guy in Columbus Ohio that advertises he can install mods.  He told me the US distributor of Tim Worthington's mod mod has it in stock.  I am waiting to hear who the distributor is.

That would be are very own @Yurkie here in these forums. Odd thing is that from what I was told is that They are listed as not being in stock by either. At least Tim's website states that both his and the US distro do not have them. That would be disappointing if @Yurkie does have some because I had a client a few months back that wanted me to install an RGB kit into his console and I couldn't because the kit was listed as NOT being available. So it ended up getting a UAV setup installed instead.

 

 

[turbo graphics 220]

On 9/28/2023 at 10:20 PM, -^CrossBow^- said:

What new composite kit? Far as I know they're aren't any composite kits or otherwise that can provide composite that cost anything near the cost of the 2600 RGB kit did?

The retro six kit https://retrosix.co.uk/Atari-2600-CleanComp-Composite-Video-Out-p537997297 ok it is half the price but even then the difference in price is not that much, I think paying a little more for Tim's kit is worth it if he makes new ones since it includes palletes and it is easier to install. It reminds me how people forget that Benn Venn lynx cart is available and cheaper than the other one you see.

[+-^CrossBow^-]

2 hours ago, turbo graphics 220 said:

The retro six kit https://retrosix.co.uk/Atari-2600-CleanComp-Composite-Video-Out-p537997297 ok it is half the price but even then the difference in price is not that much, I think paying a little more for Tim's kit is worth it if he makes new ones since it includes palletes and it is easier to install. It reminds me how people forget that Benn Venn lynx cart is available and cheaper than the other one you see.

My point was that NO composite only kits should cost even close to what the RGB kit did. I thought it was fairly priced for the features it had. It was time consuming to get everything wired up for the second button and controller modification wiring etc. But the results were really good for sure. 

 

I've used an earlier version of he RetroSix kit but as they are in the UK, with shipping it comes out the same or more than UAVs cost me here in the US from Brewing Academy so I will stick with using UAVs for the time being for all composite and s-video needs most most of the Atari systems.

 

 

[+Yurkie]

On 9/29/2023 at 9:32 AM, -^CrossBow^- said:

That would be are very own @Yurkie here in these forums. Odd thing is that from what I was told is that They are listed as not being in stock by either. At least Tim's website states that both his and the US distro do not have them. That would be disappointing if @Yurkie does have some because I had a client a few months back that wanted me to install an RGB kit into his console and I couldn't because the kit was listed as NOT being available. So it ended up getting a UAV setup installed instead.

 

 

I have not had any 2600RGB kits in months.

[+-^CrossBow^-]

37 minutes ago, Yurkie said:

I have not had any 2600RGB kits in months.

I was pretty sure of that, but the question was made that someone was going to reach out to his US distro to see if they had them and I knew you handled that so I tagged you in my reply.

 

Thanks for confirming that the kits aren't available currently.

 

 

[M-S]

On 9/26/2023 at 3:20 PM, -^CrossBow^- said:

Well again the 2600 RGB sandwiches between the main board and the TIA as you you still have to plug that in to use it. I assume his board is converting the actual Lum and sync signals off the TIA pins to generate the converted image that it outputs? And his board provided RGB, composite, and s-video outputs along with other functions like palette options, can switch between PAL and NTSC, and also built in pause. Provided you had the extra buttons connected to do this anyway. There was also the small extra daughter board that allowed for component output using the RGB outputs it created. I thought it was a FPGA based but maybe it was a CPLD setup and not quite as full on FPGA.

 

So I searched the three main ICs on the board, and none of them are an FPGA or CPLD. They are:

A color encoder: https://www.digipart.com/part/bh7236af?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIuJy62MWqggMVB19IAB26pwtZEAAYASAAEgIs6PD_BwE

A color pallete: https://www.mikrocontroller.net/attachment/8545/TR9C1710.pdf

And an 8-Bit Microcontroller: https://www.infineon.com/cms/en/product/microcontroller/legacy-microcontroller/legacy-8-bit-16-bit-microcontroller/psoc-3/cy8c32xxx/cy8c3244axi-153/

If it really doesn't need the TIA to generate the graphics then I wonder how it works.

[+-^CrossBow^-]

TIA would still be needed for at least the audio and logic to handle the triggers and paddles.

[+MrZarniwoop]

4 hours ago, M-S said:

If it really doesn't need the TIA to generate the graphics then I wonder how it works.

From the 2600RGB post at Shmups Forum:

Quote

It works in a similar manner to the NESRGB board. That is, it sits between the CPU and TIA (the name of the Atari graphics chip) and stores the data which meant to be written to the TIA palette registers. The TIA is fed with dummy colours instead. The various luma outputs from the TIA, in addition to the colour data stored is then used to create a RGB version of the original video signal. Essentially, the board creates the RGB video signal by bypassing the colour generation logic in the TIA. The video timing is unchanged.