FPGA Based Videogame System

[Newsdee]

Is there a good LCD that can handle a wide array of frequencies including 15khz? Or are we doomed to XRGBs, which can be hit and miss with sync? (even fiddling with settings)

[Keatah]

Also give me a call when some industry guru decides to create a 4k screen with a 4x3 aspect and convex rather than concave curvature. They might have a buyer!

 

You know that ain't-a never gonna happen.

 

IDK.. But curved screens seem to be at their best in immersive specialty simulations, driving, flight, sub.. And some select arcade games and other training tools. Large X-tra Size movie screens.. The one common thing is that the user is sitting in a fixed position and doesn't move all over the place like in a living room at home. And even then in the theaters, the screen's curvature isn't very pronounced.

 

I personally believe that the concave craze is something being pushed by manufacturers. They have too many loud graphic and product designers and they don't know what to do with themselves. They're trying to reinvent something that doesn't need reinventing. They're getting gimmicky again. I hope it flops like 3D did.

 

And furthermore, if you look at the center, from a center position at a certain distance, everything looks pretty good. But now fixate on a corner, the rest of the screen is now distorted. And it gets much much worse if you're off center.

[kevtris]

No, I haven't stopped work on it. lol. I have been working on another simple project for awhile though, because I got sick of FPGAs for a little while after finishing up that last update for the hi def NES adapter.

 

In the meantime, I found some cool RGB 7 segment LED displays and decided to do a quickie project with them. This project is a GPS controlled clock with sunrise/sunset calculation and "Atomic time" synch via the GPS. So far, I got 24 bit RGB working on the LEDs and the GPS is doing its thing. Got some cool animations working on the displays so far. Hopefully I will finish it up in a few weeks. I will continue work on the Z3K after I finish this quickie.

 

I am posting some videos of the progress on my youtube chan if anyone wanted to see.

[Andromeda Stardust]

So you're into clockmaking now. Cool!

[some_canuck]

So you're into clockmaking now. Cool!

 

he also likes playing with RNGesus...

 

[Andromeda Stardust]

 

he also likes playing with RNGesus...

 

Cool some of them are blue and some are yellow. I can imagine a DJ making a wall out of these. Although judging by the crackle the Neons make, I'd guess they probably emit a good bit of EMI which may interfere with the sound equipment unless every component is very well grounded and shielded.

[tonma]

I find this post really interesting.

 

I would love to have a version up to 16 bits (console/computer) with keyboard/mouse. I would like to play on 8 bits consoles and also on 8 bits computer but if we can have the 16 bits too will be marvelous.

 

I'm for using sd-card for old games (like tape, disk) and cartridge for new games.

 

I do not know if this is possible, but my dream would be to have a new console with a technical limitation, but more powerful than the existing old. I explain: to make a game for nes but with more possibility. Parallax scrolling, over color palettes at the same time to choose among a limited number, more sprites in screen and more memory to make bigger original game. It will be like programming on nes2 or snes2. But Not necessarily Nintendo of course or computer.

Or maybe the super a'can, i dont know his limitation like sprite hardware, ...

 

And I'll be happy to help, in any way

Edited November 21, 2015 by tonma

[Newsdee]

A system that can accept original carts (directly, not dumping them) would be able to run MSU-1 for the SNES. Check out this patched Zelda with CD-quality music and FMV intro:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AKSoDFUSKA .

Of course, such extension is already possible in original hardware; so it's not a SNES2... more like what the SNES could have been. Here's more detail on the MSU-1: http://helmet.kafuka.org/msu1.htm

Edited November 21, 2015 by Newsdee

[Andromeda Stardust]

A system that can accept original carts (directly, not dumping them) would be able to run MSU-1 for the SNES. Check out this patched Zelda with CD-quality music and FMV intro:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AKSoDFUSKA .

Of course, such extension is already possible in original hardware; so it's not a SNES2... more like what the SNES could have been. Here's more detail on the MSU-1: http://helmet.kafuka.org/msu1.htm

So cool. I'm aware the Sony SNES CD project never became reality, but it would have been cool to see what could be done with CD drives. However, judging by the fate of the Sega CD and Turbo CD (at least in the US), maybe it is a good thing the SNES library did not get fragmented. While I love the idea of supporting and emulating CD quality expansion, I question the purpose of this endeavor. It is unlikely that and serious homebrew efforts beyond some proof of concept tech demo will ever get made.

[Newsdee]

It is unlikely that and serious homebrew efforts beyond some proof of concept tech demo will ever get made.

There is Super Road Blaster: http://www.destructoid.com/super-road-blaster-the-impossible-laserdisc-to-snes-port-228189.phtml

 

And a few games had their soundtracks fully upgraded (e.g. Rock n Roll racing using the original songs with voices). Thats quite a bit more than a tech demo

 

On the NES there's The Legend of Link, using the underutilized MMC5, but which unfortunately does not fit into an Everdrive (too large ROM size).

http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/2136/

[Andromeda Stardust]

There is Super Road Blaster: http://www.destructoid.com/super-road-blaster-the-impossible-laserdisc-to-snes-port-228189.phtml

 

And a few games had their soundtracks fully upgraded (e.g. Rock n Roll racing using the original songs with voices). Thats quite a bit more than a tech demo

 

On the NES there's The Legend of Link, using the underutilized MMC5, but which unfortunately does not fit into an Everdrive (too large ROM size).

http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/2136/

I've heard a lot about Ledgend of Link. Sadly the only way to play it so far is by an overpriced repro. I haven't beat the first Zelda yet so I'm not ready to buy expensive ROM hacks.

 

ROM CIty Rampage fits on PP and ED but so far MMC5 implementation is poor on both flash carts as the mappers so far have only really been extensively tested to work with Castlevania III.

[Great Hierophant]

I've heard a lot about Ledgend of Link. Sadly the only way to play it so far is by an overpriced repro. I haven't beat the first Zelda yet so I'm not ready to buy expensive ROM hacks.

 

Save yourself the trouble of playing Legend of Link, the first dungeon uses the same layout as the first dungeon ("Eagle") in the original game except every room is dark. Talk about over-hacked nonsense.

[RupanIII]

I had such high hopes for those FED tvs....

https://www.gtplanet.net/gran-turismo-at-4x-hd-resolution-240-frames-per-second/

 

 

 

It isn't inferior. Digital "flat panel" displays caught on because they are more compact for a given screen size, they are more energy efficient, they are practical to build in larger screen sizes, and they are cheaper to manufacture. In terms of performance, they have always been playing catch-up to the best CRTs. For example, if a new 24" flat panel PC monitor came out tomorrow which perfectly replicated every visual/performance characteristic of the Sony GDM-FW900 CRT monitor, it would be hailed as the greatest monitor ever.

 

The ideal display device would combine the performance advantages of a CRT with the practical advantages of a flat panel display. "SED" was intended to do exactly that, but aside from a working prototype, it turned out to be vaporware.

[rgb32e]

I had such high hopes for those FED tvs....

https://www.gtplanet.net/gran-turismo-at-4x-hd-resolution-240-frames-per-second/

 

 

 

Yeah, but as it turns out, it used PWM for driving the display, so you'd still have plasma like dithering artifacts, albeit very minimal by comparison.

 

Then again, you could just buy a PVM-A250 and call it a decade? Not really reasonable for the $ per diagonal inch, but if you want the best of the best (and better than the FW900 in most all ways), there IS an available option, just not "affordable"

Edited November 25, 2015 by rgb32e

[MaximRecoil]

Yeah, but as it turns out, it used PWM for driving the display, so you'd still have plasma like dithering artifacts, albeit very minimal by comparison.

 

Then again, you could just buy a PVM-A250 and call it a decade? Not really reasonable for the $ per diagonal inch, but if you want the best of the best (and better than the FW900 in most all ways), there IS an available option, just not "affordable"

 

At best it matches the FW900 in some ways. It is OLED so it generates its own light, which puts it on par with a CRT in that respect (generating its own light is the key to true blacks / high contrast ratios and no color shifts when the viewing angle changes), and beats LCD. However, the FW900 is capable of higher resolution (2304 x 1440 vs. 1920 x 1080), not that it matters at that screen size for e.g., watching movies, but it could come in handy for various computer applications. But more importantly, the FW900 can natively sync to a wide range of resolutions, and look perfect doing so, which is an advantage that CRTs will always inherently have over any and all digital displays, which by nature have a single fixed resolution, and the only way to make other resolutions fill the screen is through scaling, which is ugly. With the FW900 you can watch 480p, 720p, 1080p, or 2K video content, all in native sync, zero scaling required.

 

On top of that, OLED doesn't have the durability of a CRT. Newer CRT monitors can run for 8 hours a day, for 10 years or more, with no noticeable degradation. OLED has a real problem with longevity, and since the wear of the colors is uneven (blue wears the fastest), not only is longevity a problem, but the colors are soon out of balance as well.

 

Between the two, I'd take the FW900 without even thinking twice. I'd take it over any display in that size range, for that matter.

Edited November 25, 2015 by MaximRecoil

[Andromeda Stardust]

 

 

On top of that, OLED doesn't have the durability of a CRT. Newer CRT monitors can run for 8 hours a day, for 10 years or more, with no noticeable degradation. OLED has a real problem with longevity, and since the wear of the colors is uneven (blue wears the fastest), not only is longevity a problem, but the colors are soon out of balance as well.

 

Yeah displays that have seen even light usage already have burn patterns evidenced in the yellow and pink bars resulting from frequent watching of pillarboxed or letterboxed content. LCDs are constantly improving with their black levels anyhow, and far more durable and cheaper.

[jum]

My 2c off the top of my head:

 

1. Keep it simple and low cost

2. Try to avoid pitfalls of similar projects (scope/cost creep, redesign, runaway release date)

3. What differentiates your project vs MIST / MCC-216 /etc ?

4. Many retro players/collectors have a CRT TV / monitor specially for playing old games on, so composite output would be nice.

5. Make the project "open" or collaborate - you won't have time to do everything yourself.

 

I would definately buy an FPGA system for $150 or less.

 

Best of luck with your Zimba project.

[leods]

My 2c off the top of my head:

 

4. Many retro players/collectors have a CRT TV / monitor specially for playing old games on, so composite output would be nice.

 

 

I have the tendency to think HDMI is the way to go, becaus eif you'Re a Purist looking for the most authentic you should just get the original stuff. Maybe with a Flash cart if that's what you Need. The whole Point of such a System IMHO is exactly bringing native digital Support.

 

But I don't know, if tons of People actually want analog Video I see nothing wrong with that. Oldschool games DO look better on a good CRT.

[Keatah]

"Native digital support" for all our oldschool games and consoles really needs to start at the point where the game leaves the graphics circuit. More appropriately be completed in the graphics circuit itself.

 

But because it does not is the reason why they look crappy on modern displays like LCD. An oldschool console output is naturally analog and not native to dot addressable displays of today. A 3rd party conversion needs to take place - and that's just a crapshoot.

 

A hypothetical modern-day TIA for the VCS would have HDMI output right from the chip itself.

 

Or consider emulators (software or hardware) with synthetic NTSC effects. It's gonna look real good. Emulators are native to LCD and modern displays.

 

Taking it a step further, a modern day old-school chip would also have the ability to connect to a fast cmos camera in a lightgun. It would check to see that the lightgun is actually pointed at a target by way of image analysis. It would even be able to tell how much off-target you were. I suppose that's for another discussion entirely. Sorry.

[Keatah]

[..]

1. Keep it simple and low cost

2. Try to avoid pitfalls of similar projects (scope/cost creep, redesign, runaway release date)

3. What differentiates your project vs MIST / MCC-216 /etc ?

4. Many retro players/collectors have a CRT TV / monitor specially for playing old games on, so composite output would be nice.

5. Make the project "open" or collaborate - you won't have time to do everything yourself.

 

I would definately buy an FPGA system for $150 or less.

 

Counterpoint:

 

I definitely think many retroists start considering modern display devices and consoles and emulators that can interface correctly to those displays. There's really a whole new world with a many advantages that modern tech opens up if you tidy up the details and do it right. A console that outputs HDMI is a good start.

 

Collaboration is a good way to go as long as the original person remains in control of it.

 

And I think $150 is not enough. $200-$300 is more like it. There's a lot of tech available but it requires establishing an platform, an infrastructure, a framework so to speak. And I feel that $100 is the absolute rock bottom bare minimum possible. Once something like this gets to the $200 price all the i's will be dotted and t's crossed. After that you can have exponential increases in capability for pennies on the dollar.

 

Clamoring for low cost and cost-cutting will reflect in the final product. A non-videogame example is interchangable lens cameras. I'd happily pay another $100 or even $200 to have them design a removable sensor shield. A piece of glass that can be removed, cleaned, and replaced without having to disassemble the entire camera if your sensor is smudged or scratched.

[tonma]

A system that can accept original carts (directly, not dumping them) would be able to run MSU-1 for the SNES. Check out this patched Zelda with CD-quality music and FMV intro:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AKSoDFUSKA .

Of course, such extension is already possible in original hardware; so it's not a SNES2... more like what the SNES could have been. Here's more detail on the MSU-1: http://helmet.kafuka.org/msu1.htm

 

I was thinking more about adding a non-existent hardware part. As more sprites on screen and per line, greater palette. Having a HD game with the same SD resolution 320 * 240. It's will be a super super A'Can. But I don't know if it's possible.

 

And I'm for a private collaborate project to help you (tests, ...)

[Newsdee]

 

I was thinking more about adding a non-existent hardware part. As more sprites on screen and per line, greater palette.

 

They're possible but the problem is getting developer support for them. An old example is the Spec256 project, where I think only the original writer did the work to adapt all available games:

http://www.emulatronia.com/emusdaqui/spec256/juego-jetpac-eng.htm

[tonma]

 

They're possible but the problem is getting developer support for them. An old example is the Spec256 project, where I think only the original writer did the work to adapt all available games:

http://www.emulatronia.com/emusdaqui/spec256/juego-jetpac-eng.htm

I doesn't know this emulator, nice one. I think the problem was emulation, You need to play on PC or else.

 

If we can add that on real hardware, it could be supported by more developer.

[Newsdee]

Not sure; I mean in theory we have an upgraded PC Engine (the supergrafx) yet there isn't much homebrew for it.

 

Of course there the problem can be rarity of the hardware. With an FPGA version anybody with a base unit could run the upgrade as a simple reconfiguration. Whether that brings developers will depend on how successful the base unit is...

[Radfoo]

Well I'm hoping to hit the 16 bit pipe pretty hard. I designed the last hardware specifically to step up to the 16 bit challenge.

 

The list of things I really want to add would be (in order):

 

* SNES

* genesis

* Neogeo (this might even supersede genesis)

* TG-16

* Super Acan

 

The other things I wanted to add would be (not really in order):

 

* Vectrex

* 5200

* Atari 8-bit (same as 5200 and would be the same project)

* C64 (probably would be one of the first computers I added)

* some arcade stuff, like Robotron- this would be my 6809 proving grounds before I attempted vectrex, so I only have to wrangle one thing at a time vs. vectors AND CPU.

* Astrocade (not sure why I haven't added this yet. It's Z80 based and fairly simple so I could probably knock it out fairly quick)

 

 

I'm sure you have long list of cores beyond this but just thought I'd mention the Atari Lynx, would love to see that one. Anyone know if any other fpga gurus are already working on such a core for other boards?