FPGA Based Videogame System

[Schizophretard]

There already is a device with analog video, it's called a SNES. What makes absolutely no sense is spending $200 on a new device, when you're going to use it in the exact same manner a $60 already existing device can accomplish just fine.

Let's say on eBay I saw a new in box Super NES for $200 and even though I already own a Super NES I buy it anyway for the future proofing purpose of having a brand new Super NES so that I increase the chances of enjoying Super NES longer because it has less "mileage" on it. I think doing that would make perfect sense. People do that kind of thing all the time. Now just switch the manufacturer of this new in box Super NES from Nintendo to Analogue.

 

Edit: How much does a new in box Super NES go for anyway? I found one for $2000 and am struggling to find others because Super NES Classics keep popping up. Anyway, if they are more than $200 then I think it makes even more sense because it would be replacement hardware for cheaper.

[keepdreamin]

Let's say on eBay I saw a new in box Super NES for $200 and even though I already own a Super NES I buy it anyway for the future proofing purpose of having a brand new Super NES so that I increase the chances of enjoying Super NES longer because it has less "mileage" on it. I think doing that would make perfect sense. People do that kind of thing all the time. Now just switch the manufacturer of this new in box Super NES from Nintendo to Analogue.

 

Hoarding NIB SNES consoles isn't "future proofing". Future proofing is purchasing a new device with intent that it will work with newer tech down the road. For example, buying a 4K with HDR even though you don't own any HDR devices at present but plan to in the future.

 

Buying a new SNES with HDMI ensures you'll be able to use it with displays made for years to come. They aren't making analog CRTs anymore, therefore there is no future to proof.

 

People will save SNES consoles, less will save CRTs. Having a NIB SNES stuffed away for 20 years isn't going to mean anything if there's no tube tvs to use it with. An example of future proofing an original SNES would be purchasing an OSSC or Framemeister for it.

Edited December 31, 2017 by keepdreamin

[Sneakyturtleegg]

 

There already is a device with analog video, it's called a SNES. What makes absolutely no sense is spending $200 on a new device, when you're going to use it in the exact same manner a $60 already existing device can accomplish just fine.

 

Flat panel latency is down to a frame or less now. Combine that with a no lag FPGA and you're precision games will be just fine. If you're telling me you can tell the difference between a CRT and a newer 4K with 14ms of lag in game mode or a gaming monitor with 9ms I'm gonna call shenanigans.

 

I, like many others would like analogue and digital output on a new SNES clone, just like the NT Mini. Yes I understand CRT's are old but that is what I like for retro gaming. I understand HDMI is the standard now, so that is why I want both. Also, OEM Super Nintendos are old and failing. I would like a brand new replacement option without the compromise of not having analogue output. I believe there are several posts from a few weeks back in this thread addressing the reliability of OEM Super Nintendo systems. At the moment, there isn't an option for analogue output for the Super NT, so I am holding off. If the Super NT does not receive an analogue output option, I will likely have to maintain the OEM systems I own and look at alternative options, like the Open Source Scan Converter (OSSC).

[NE146]

 

There already is a device with analog video, it's called a SNES.

 

Yes, but that one doesn't have HDMI out. I understand the desire both types of output.. my NT Mini doesn't stay in one place all the time. Sometimes it's on my little 13" crt on my office desk. Sometimes it's on the 80" lcd, and everywhere in-between in my house depending on the situation and time of year.

 

That said, I'm fine with only HDMI out. I'm just saying I don't knock the desire for analog output as well, but it is what it is.

[keepdreamin]

 

I, like many others would like analogue and digital output on a new SNES clone, just like the NT Mini. Yes I understand CRT's are old but that is what I like for retro gaming. I understand HDMI is the standard now, so that is why I want both. Also, OEM Super Nintendos are old and failing. I would like a brand new replacement option without the compromise of not having analogue output. I believe there are several posts from a few weeks back in this thread addressing the reliability of OEM Super Nintendo systems. At the moment, there isn't an option for analogue output for the Super NT, so I am holding off. If the Super NT does not receive an analogue output option, I will likely have to maintain the OEM systems I own and look at alternative options, like the Open Source Scan Converter (OSSC).

 

If OEM consoles are old and failing, why wouldn't that then apply to CRTs as well? Electron guns and flybacks don't last forever. I'm sure a greater percentage working CRTs have found their way to landfills and will continue to do so, than percentage of working SNES consoles. Pining for new devices to output analog video doesn't make any sense, especially when the cheaper option is still plentiful.

 

I can go on eBay and buy a working SNES with no hookups from 40-60 bucks. There is no shortage of working consoles at the moment. If you simply want to play SNES games on a CRT, there is no logical reason to spend $200 to do so.

[Sneakyturtleegg]

 

Pining for new devices to output analog video doesn't make any sense, especially when the cheaper option is still plentiful.

It may not make sense to you, but it does to me and many others. It's a simple difference in preference and opinion. We are allowed to disagree. And the company's name does happen to be "Analogue"

 

Since is inception, Analogue has made high end, no compromise products. I own several of them. Now that the Super NT has been announced with specs released, it represents a compromise and change to their traditional business model. They are looking to target a broader segment of the market. I understand the business side if it. I'm simply hoping that Analogue doesn't forget the customers that got them to this point.

[keepdreamin]

It may not make sense to you, but it does to me and many others. It's a simple difference in preference and opinion. We are allowed to disagree. And the company's name does happen to be "Analogue"

 

Since is inception, Analogue has made high end, no compromise products. I own several of them. Now that the Super NT has been announced with specs released, it represents a compromise and change to their traditional business model. They are looking to target a broader segment of the market. I understand the business side if it. I'm simply hoping that Analogue doesn't forget the customers that got them to this point.

 

But where are the reliable new CRTS to go with that reliable new analog SNES you want? Your argument for its inclusion centered around future reliability of CRT based gaming. That isn't a thing unless there's CRTs. Working SNES consoles aren't being left curbside for trash pick up. Cart slots, dried out capacitors, and voltage regulators can be repaired/replaced. A tired CRT tube is a tired CRT tube.

 

From an outside observer it appears you're taking your stand on the wrong front. You should be knocking down Sony's door demanding the return of the Trinitron line. Getting annoyed at Analogue for analog video exclusion is putting the cart before the horse.

[Schizophretard]

 

Hoarding NIB SNES consoles isn't "future proofing". Future proofing is purchasing a new device with intent that it will work with newer tech down the road. For example, buying a 4K with HDR even though you don't own any HDR devices at present but plan to in the future.

 

Buying a new SNES with HDMI ensures you'll be able to use it with displays made for years to come. They aren't making analog CRTs anymore, therefore there is no future to proof.

 

People will save SNES consoles, less will save CRTs. Having a NIB SNES stuffed away for 20 years isn't going to mean anything if there's no tube tvs to use it with. An example of future proofing an original SNES would be purchasing an OSSC or Framemeister for it.

 

Stuff for 20 years? I would open it as soon as it arrives. I know they aren't making CRT's anymore. That is why I have been hoarding them. Call it future proofing or call it something you find more accurate but the point is preparing to play the Super NES as well as all the other consoles I'm interested in the way I prefer to play them as far into the future as possible and I don't see anything that doesn't make sense about making purchasing decisions based on that.

 

Anyway, even with less people saving CRT's than the Super NES there are so many CRT's that it will take awhile before they are all gone. For an example, the transition from black and white CRT's to color ones was just as big of a purge as going from CRT's to flat panels. How long ago did this big purge happen? During the time period I was born. Has enough people saved black and white TV's that I could find them today? Absolutely. If I wanted I could own one before the day is over. That isn't bad for a TV technology that was already obsolete when I was born.

[Sneakyturtleegg]

 

But where are the reliable new CRTS to go with that reliable new analog SNES you want? Your argument for its inclusion centered around future reliability of CRT based gaming. That isn't a thing unless there's CRTs. Working SNES consoles aren't being left curbside for trash pick up. Cart slots, dried out capacitors, and voltage regulators can be repaired/replaced. A tired CRT tube is a tired CRT tube.

 

From an outside observer it appears you're taking your stand on the wrong front. You should be knocking down Sony's door demanding the return of the Trinitron line. Getting annoyed at Analogue for analog video exclusion is putting the cart before the horse.

 

You are the one making an argument about CRTs, not me. Schizophretard does make a good point in the previous post. The reliability of CRTs and going on ebay to by a used SNES for $40-$60 has nothing to do with why I want a new SNES clone console with both analogue and digital output. Our Retro consoles are getting old and I would like to replace them with new, modern high quality clones. I prefer systems that do both analogue and digital, and I'm willing to pay for it. I'll play on CRTs/PVMs for as long as I can. Having HDMI for modern flat panels is future proofing. Its very simply my preference.

 

I was part of Analogue's original target market and business model. That has changed with the Super NT. I am not annoyed by that. Like I said in my previous post, I understand business and I'll just adjust if necessary. You obviously don't agree with me, which is fine and I accept that. But please accept that myself and others have a different opinion than yours. Arguing about it isn't going to change either of our minds.

 

Your are right about this: "If you simply want to play SNES games on a CRT, there is no logical reason to spend $200 to do so." -- I would spend $450 to $500 to get a SNES clone console that does not compromise, just like the NT Mini.

Edited December 31, 2017 by Sneakyturtleegg

[keepdreamin]

I don't understand the appeal of not having analog video options. If I have to use a flat panel (and thereby ruin any game requiring precision controls), then why not just put SNES9x on my laptop and plug it into a HDTV?

 

I realize now a quicker reply would been simply been...

 

 

 

[cfillak]

I just learned that Famicom and Neo Geo controllers use the same connector. Would it be possible to plug in and use Neo Geo pads on the NT Mini, provided that they're supported in the firmware?

[Jagasian]

Kevtris, is it possible for the Super NT to output 1080p at 120hz over HDMI by doubling frames? There are LCD displays for which that will cut the display input latency in half versus 1080p at 60hz.

Edited December 31, 2017 by Jagasian

[Andromeda Stardust]

I just learned that Famicom and Neo Geo controllers use the same connector. Would it be possible to plug in and use Neo Geo pads on the NT Mini, provided that they're supported in the firmware?

Abosolutely not. Famicom uses a bunch of i/o. Neogeo uses direct connections to buttons using microswitch joysticks. Plug it into the Famicom, press all buttons at once, and watch your console go up in smoke...

Kevtris, is it possible for the Super NT to output 1080p at 120hz over HDMI by doubling frames? There are LCD displays for which that will cut the display input latency in half versus 1080p at 60hz.

No.

[retro_fan]

Kevtris is back!

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8gZT1F9UkE

[LewisD]

Assuming that a jailbreak comes out for the Super NT, what are the chances that there will be a CopySNES feature? I love the dumping capability of the NT Mini, hopefully we will be able to dump our SNES carts too.

[Jagasian]

Abosolutely not. Famicom uses a bunch of i/o. Neogeo uses direct connections to buttons using microswitch joysticks. Plug it into the Famicom, press all buttons at once, and watch your console go up in smoke...

No.

Why cant the Super NT do 1080p at 120hz?

[Wolf_]

Why cant the Super NT do 1080p at 120hz?

It isn't that powerful.

[kevtris]

Why cant the Super NT do 1080p at 120hz?

because that would require 2x the bandwidth. I don't have it. I'm maxing out the HDMI and the FPGA clock rates pretty much at 1080p60. There's no real reason to go 120Hz if the games didn't even have it IMO.

[Pixelboy]

I'd like to use this opportunity to wish Kevtris a Happy New Year. Keep up the good work, Kev, whatever you're working on right now!

[Andromeda Stardust]

Kevtris is back!

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8gZT1F9UkE

Will be awes9me if future JB cores work with select arcade era mame roms.

[Andromeda Stardust]

because that would require 2x the bandwidth. I don't have it. I'm maxing out the HDMI and the FPGA clock rates pretty much at 1080p60. There's no real reason to go 120Hz if the games didn't even have it IMO.

720p 120hz might work (considering 1080p has 2.25x the pixel count per frame as 720p), however you would also need a frame bufer which would require a lot of very fast ram. And I believe the benefit if any, is negligible.

[RabidWookie]

I've been loving my Analogue NT Mini all year, it's a work of genius and expert craftsmanship. I recently read that some everdrives run at 5v and can damage classic consoles over time that were designed around lesser voltages, and that had me wondering: Does the Analogue NT Mini run at a matching voltage with NES and Famicom carts? Would it run at a matching voltage to all the other systems it can replicate if the cartridge adapters came out for it? I'm a newbie to the world of FPGA consoles, everdrives, etc. and just want to make sure the retro collection I've been enjoying for 30 years stays in great condition so I can pass it down to future generations. Thank you Kevin for your amazing work! As an aside, did you design the core for the upcoming Super NT and could that system potentially also run Genesis, Turbografx 16, and Neo Geo games?

[kevtris]

I've been loving my Analogue NT Mini all year, it's a work of genius and expert craftsmanship. I recently read that some everdrives run at 5v and can damage classic consoles over time that were designed around lesser voltages, and that had me wondering: Does the Analogue NT Mini run at a matching voltage with NES and Famicom carts? Would it run at a matching voltage to all the other systems it can replicate if the cartridge adapters came out for it? I'm a newbie to the world of FPGA consoles, everdrives, etc. and just want to make sure the retro collection I've been enjoying for 30 years stays in great condition so I can pass it down to future generations. Thank you Kevin for your amazing work! As an aside, did you design the core for the upcoming Super NT and could that system potentially also run Genesis, Turbografx 16, and Neo Geo games?

Yes it runs on 5V, but the signals are a bit lower amplitude on purpose (cart signals). It shouldn't be harmed by carts using 3.3V flash, but the carts might eventually fail due to them running those chips out of spec.

[RabidWookie]

Yes it runs on 5V, but the signals are a bit lower amplitude on purpose (cart signals). It shouldn't be harmed by carts using 3.3V flash, but the carts might eventually fail due to them running those chips out of spec.

 

So the Analogue NT Mini runs on 5v and could damage NES carts over time?

[kevtris]

 

So the Analogue NT Mini runs on 5v and could damage NES carts over time?

Seeing how NES carts run on 5V too, this is not a problem. I am talking about the usually pirate/poorly designed things like the 8 bit music power cart. These things tend to use 3.3V ROMs without any level translation which isn't the best idea (for the cart) since this is running the flash chips outside their recommended operating range. This is not an nt mini problem, the same thing would happen on a stock NES.