FPGA Based Videogame System

[keepdreamin]

I got my Super NT. The 240p test suite is a great SNES ROM for testing visual quality, sound, and lag. The manual lag test shows an input lag reading that is purely the lag caused by my old Samsung flatscreen TV (35ms). On a lagless HDMI flatscreen, Id expect to be able to get around 8ms, the time it takes to draw half a frame. An original SNES hooked up via composite to this TV has an 80ms lag due to the TVs laggy built-in upscaler.

 

857D346F-5C62-4FE2-BDC6-5763CBC01EA1.jpeg

 

 

The only Flatscreen display that might give only 8ms of lag is a PC monitor. The lowest rated flatscreen TV I've seen hit around 14ms.

 

You need to keep in mind the manual lag test isn't 100% scientific. It's only meant to give a rough estimate on how responsive your setup is. More importantly, how well you specifically fare gameplay wise.

 

This is my snes jr+OSSC on a set with around 14ms of measured lag. Obviously, there isn't really zero frames of lag.

[TheFooj]

 

This means the system detected a corrupt firmware image on the SD card. Try reloading the file onto the SD card, and/or trying another SD card. If that fails, re-download and unzip the update file.

 

Thanks kevtris, I had tried 2 SD cards and had the same issue. So as you suggested I re-downloaded the file, I also plugged my sd card reader into a motherboard USB2 port rather than the USB3 hub port i was using before. Now the update has completed successfully. I wonder if it was the USB3 hub doing something with the file when copying it over to the SD card each time. Regardless, it's working now and I can breathe again! Thanks again

Edited February 10, 2018 by TheFooj

[SegaSnatcher]

 

 

 

You need to keep in mind the manual lag test isn't 100% scientific. It's only meant to give a rough estimate on how responsive your setup is. More importantly, how well you specifically fare gameplay wise.

 

This is my snes jr+OSSC on a set with around 14ms of measured lag. Obviously, there isn't really zero frames of lag.

What is your display?

[keepdreamin]

What is your display?

 

https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/tcl/p-series-2017-p607

 

The aforementioned 605 variant (Best Buy exclusive with simpler remote, same display just $50 cheaper)

Edited February 10, 2018 by keepdreamin

[copy]

Got my Super Nt yesterday and absolutely love it so far. Kevtris, amazing work.

 

I'm curious about the "Mode 5 & 6 Interlace Disable" option. Which games these would affect, and how exactly?

 

I also seem to have encountered a bug with NBA Jam. I couldn't access the system menu from within this game, and after power cycling, I couldn't get any HDMI signal. I had to completely unplug from power in order to make the Super Nt work again.

 

Edit: I should note I'm on firmware 3.9.

Edited February 10, 2018 by copy

[Jagasian]

 

 

 

You need to keep in mind the manual lag test isn't 100% scientific. It's only meant to give a rough estimate on how responsive your setup is. More importantly, how well you specifically fare gameplay wise.

 

This is my snes jr+OSSC on a set with around 14ms of measured lag. Obviously, there isn't really zero frames of lag.

I agree that the 240p test suites manual lag test is not the most accurate measure, but I think it is practical because no special equipment is necessary for measurement and it takes the users game pad into account, so excessive lag via a wireless controller will be noticeable.

 

I have compared it on an original SNES on a 1990s CRT TV (measures around 8ms), my 2015 Samsung LCD TV (80ms), and the Super NT on the same Samsung LCD TV (35ms). The original SNES on the Samsung LCD is painfully laggy... clearly the Samsung upscaler sucks for retro gaming.

[SegaSnatcher]

Kevtris, do you only work on the cores or do you design the PCB layout as well?

[SegaSnatcher]

 

https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/tcl/p-series-2017-p607

 

The aforementioned 605 variant (Best Buy exclusive with simpler remote, same display just $50 cheaper)

LMAO, that is the exact model I was referencing when I said 14ms, lol.

[keepdreamin]

I agree that the 240p test suites manual lag test is not the most accurate measure, but I think it is practical because no special equipment is necessary for measurement and it takes the users game pad into account, so excessive lag via a wireless controller will be noticeable.

 

I have compared it on an original SNES on a 1990s CRT TV (measures around 8ms), my 2015 Samsung LCD TV (80ms), and the Super NT on the same Samsung LCD TV (35ms). The original SNES on the Samsung LCD is painfully laggy... clearly the Samsung upscaler sucks for retro gaming.

 

If you're looking for a cheap responsive gaming monitor, the TCL405 line is as quick as the more expensive 605. They lack some stuff like local dimming, but they all seem to be on sale.

 

https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/tcl/s-series-4k-2017-s405

 

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/tcl-49-class-48-5-diag--led-2160p-smart-4k-ultra-hd-tv-roku-tv/5878701.p?skuId=5878701

[Wolf_]

I'm a huge fan of my tcl 55p607. Takes everything my ossc can throw at it and looks amazing with modern or old content. Just finished 100%ing Breath of the Wild on it and it was a really fantastic experience.

[mrnarse]

I hope the 2018 TCL sets are as good as the 2017 models. I really want one of their 65” sets and was disappointed they didn’t release one in 2017.

[keepdreamin]

I hope the 2018 TCL sets are as good as the 2017 models. I really want one of their 65” sets and was disappointed they didn’t release one in 2017.

 

If you don't need a 65", the coming months would be a great time to keep an eye on the 2017 models. TV manufacturers typically start rolling out the new models in spring, previous models start getting deep price cuts. Looks like that's already started with the 405s.

[SegaSnatcher]

I hope the 2018 TCL sets are as good as the 2017 models. I really want one of their 65” sets and was disappointed they didn’t release one in 2017.

More dimming zones means less blooming, so that is one guaranteed improvement over the 2017 models. I just hope they improve the gray uniformity. TCL displays are kinda plagued with the dirty screen affect.

[keepdreamin]

More dimming zones means less blooming, so that is one guaranteed improvement over the 2017 models. I just hope they improve the gray uniformity. TCL displays are kinda plagued with the dirty screen affect.

 

Well, I wouldn't expect perfection especially at this price point. At least you don't have to deal with OLED image retention.

[mrnarse]

If you don't need a 65", the coming months would be a great time to keep an eye on the 2017 models. TV manufacturers typically start rolling out the new models in spring, previous models start getting deep price cuts. Looks like that's already started with the 405s.

Id be all for that, but I do need a 65. Got a 60 now and I couldnt handle a smaller screen than that for the room its in. And nowadays 60 TVs are scarce and/or have inferior tech compared to 55 and 65 models.

 

My current set is a LG Plasma from a few years ago. Looks great for what it cost, but it does have image retention issues.

Edited February 10, 2018 by mrnarse

[SegaSnatcher]

Id be all for that, but I do need a 65. Got a 60 now and I couldnt handle a smaller screen than that for the room its in. And nowadays 60 TVs are scarce and/or have inferior tech compared to 55 and 65 models.

 

My current set is a LG Plasma from a few years ago. Looks great for what it cost, but it does have image retention issues.

The 65" 2018 TCL Model has 128 dimming zones, so should be a rather nice display for movies and games if the lag is as low as the 2017 models.

[Reaperman]

So, silly idea: performance recording.

 

The Analogue systems have access to large SD cards, and a regular rate(?) at which the controllers are polled.

Would there be any possibility of recording inputs as a full performance?

A number of games aren't really random, and I think having a replay of say, super mario bros, might be a neat thing.

 

It's not like a super system-seller feature or anything, but more of a wouldn't-it-be-neat feature that the analogue systems might be in a good position to offer. Granted, I have no idea if the system has the ability to do it. I suppose an external device, either in-controller or between controller and system, would be in a position to do it as well.

Edited February 10, 2018 by Reaperman

[Great Hierophant]

Got my Super Nt yesterday and absolutely love it so far. Kevtris, amazing work.

 

I'm curious about the "Mode 5 & 6 Interlace Disable" option. Which games these would affect, and how exactly?

 

I also seem to have encountered a bug with NBA Jam. I couldn't access the system menu from within this game, and after power cycling, I couldn't get any HDMI signal. I had to completely unplug from power in order to make the Super Nt work again.

 

Edit: I should note I'm on firmware 3.9.

 

I tried NBA Jam from my sd2snes and could not get into the Nt's menu after starting a game. However, holding reset to get back to the sd2snes' menu allowed me to get back into the menu.

 

I have found that the Mode 5 & 6 Interlace Disable works with one game.

[LewisD]

I had a feeling this would come up. NT could just as easily have meant "New Tech." Or an old dinosaur Windows variant. Fact of the matter, Analogue has the "NT" moniker as part of their branding now, so Analogue = NT. It would be wise to continue the NT branding whether or not it the console is cloning a Nintendo system or not. Analogue MD would also work, though I wasn't aware they were in the medical profession!

Uh, no. New Tech? Get real. Analogues intention with naming their product NT is an obvious reference to Nintendo without violating a trademark. NT = Nintendo, Super NT = Super Nintendo.

 

Analogue could name their next product DooDoo and it would sell like hot cakes. The idea that they need to brand every product with NT is nonsense. Mega NT sounds stupid. Analogue MD/Analogue SG fits within the naming scheme they have decided to run with.

[leods]

Uh, no. New Tech? Get real. Analogues intention with naming their product NT is an obvious reference to Nintendo without violating a trademark. NT = Nintendo, Super NT = Super Nintendo.

 

Analogue could name their next product DooDoo and it would sell like hot cakes. The idea that they need to brand every product with NT is nonsense. Mega NT sounds stupid. Analogue MD/Analogue SG fits within the naming scheme they have decided to run with.

 

I am glad you really seem to know what's right and anyone who disagrees is OBVIOUSLY wrong. Because you know, you're obviously right. I'd rather not read the absolute truth of reality. I think I'm not ready for it yet.

 

I have asked about this before, and I want to ask this again: 8bitdo controllers were advertised as lag free. Can someone test input lag on those? The camera filming at 240p would be enough. Or can anyone point me to any testing done on these controllers? I really think this "lag free" claim should be put to test.

[mrnarse]

Whatever the names are, I have one proposal: If we ever get an all-in-one Zimba 3000 that’s released by Analogue and Kevtris, it should be called the Analogue KT. Bonus points if the console chassis is a solid piece of aluminum shaped like Kevtris.

[Atariboy]

I think the Mario Bros. minigame in Super Mario Bros. 3 on the All-Stars cartridge might be a good test for controller lag.

 

Seems easy enough to arrive at an unscientific approximation by pressing the same jump button on two controllers simultaneously several times while filming the result, and then comparing the results. And a screenshot of the average result gives a nice visual approximation of what the delay, if any, might be.

 

Not that I imagine anyone serious enough to go investigating this needs a game suggestion. But this one jumped out immediately as I thought about how I'd do it if I was checking it out, and you never know if it might be helpful.

Edited February 10, 2018 by Atariboy

[Loukey]

I love the idea of a Zimba 3000 in an aluminum block shaped like Kevtris' head!

 

Whatever the names are, I have one proposal: If we ever get an all-in-one Zimba 3000 that’s released by Analogue and Kevtris, it should be called the Analogue KT. Bonus points if the console chassis is a solid piece of aluminum shaped like Kevtris.

[mrnarse]

I love the idea of a Zimba 3000 in an aluminum block shaped like Kevtris' head!

 

A fitting tribute to the person who made this all possible, I think. ?

Interchangeable cartridge slots coming out of his aluminum mouth and everything.

 

Hopefully the Digital Foundry review and video coming tomorrow will cover the 8bitdo controllers as well. Seems like its gonna be a pretty in depth review.

[Pixelboy]

 

I love the idea of a Zimba 3000 in an aluminum block shaped like Kevtris' head!

A fitting tribute to the person who made this all possible, I think.

Interchangeable cartridge slots coming out of his aluminum mouth and everything.

 

Don't forget the orange rectangle around the head.