Project NXTXE

[morelenmir]

Excellent advice guys! I guess you can do a lot with less. To some extent I fear I may have been unduly influenced by the chaps like Dave from the 'eeVBlog' who say 'don't bother wasting your money on the cheap stuff, always buy the best quality'. Nonetheless I can also see their point - you need to know a fault or an anomaly you detect in a circuit is genuinely part of the electronics and not some failure of your test gear.

 

Forget about those old analog scopes, especially if you want to diagnose digital circuits. Digital circuits mean non-repetitive signals so you absolutely want to have single-shot capabilities, segmented memory and advanced triggering features that analog scopes just dont have.

You can get a brand new Rigol DS1054Z for 300GBP and that would be a lot more useful than an analog scope.

 

I understand what you mean Hiassoft. Often I guess you are looking for when a signal goes high or low, not the exact voltage of that signal - which when I think about it is the essence of digital electronics over analogue!

 

Quite a few on eBay UK for around sixty quid.

 

I guess you mean scopes FJC - not meters? I am clearly looking for the wrong brands then. I had kind of narrowed my requirements down to an HP1740A, which does seem a bit cheaper than I feared. I notice there is a currently one on a 'buy it now' for £130, which is pretty damn good! Although, taking Hiassoft's perhaps I should focus purely on digital models.

 

Really? Analog scopes here can be easily found for ~$100, which would be a good amount less than 100gbp. Got any craigslist type sites for britain? (that is, local pickup only kind of for sale ad site) Maybe it's just a matter of looking around until you find a good deal? Maybe it depends where you live though, and you're just not going to find a reasonably priced scope in GB, analog or digital.

 

For example: https://chicago.craigslist.org/nwc/ele/5284001285.html

 

There used to be - may still be, although I have not been on it for a long time - a yahoo email group thing called 'freecycle' and I was thinking I might find something there. I also know someone who works for the local comprehensive school and I hoped maybe she might be able to 'dumpster dive' something for me if they have gotten rid of their old gear in preference for something new.

 

Still - I am a bit encouraged by the general message which seems to be you actually don't need the top shelf brands to 'do electronics'. I think I may open a specific thread on 'bargain basement' gear and suggestions as I think it overlaps so strongly with retro modding. I am pretty sure a lot of chaps are going to find themselves branching out a bit once they get a taste for installing Ultimate1MB and VBXE's. It certainly reawakened my interest as I hadn't touched a multimeter in over 20 years before April!!!

[Joey Z]

Forget about those old analog scopes, especially if you want to diagnose digital circuits. Digital circuits mean non-repetitive signals so you absolutely want to have single-shot capabilities, segmented memory and advanced triggering features that analog scopes just dont have.

 

You can get a brand new Rigol DS1054Z for 300GBP and that would be a lot more useful than an analog scope.

 

As for DMMs: no need to spend that amount on a true RMS meter. Sure, these things are nice (I have an Agilent U1272A myself), but for a start a sub-50GBP meter will do as well. I used a simple 3.5 digit DMM for more than 20 years and it got the job done.

 

Actually, it's better to have 2 cheap DMMs instead of a single expensive one so you can check voltage and current at the same time.

 

so long,

 

Hias

only issue I have with the cheap DMMs is that they tend to fall apart. I have a BK precision (mid range, I guess) and it has lasted years. Had a $20 low end one, broke after a couple months. The BK precision I think was like a $60 or $70 meter at the time it was purchased, and if I had bought a cheap one and replaced it continually, I guarantee I would have spent several times more than that.

[HiassofT]

To some extent I fear I may have been unduly influenced by the chaps like Dave from the 'eeVBlog' who say 'don't bother wasting your money on the cheap stuff, always buy the best quality'.

I like watching Daves videos at youtube and reading the forums - there's a lot of useful info out there. But don't get spoiled, a lot of these people are pros that have far higher requirements than a hobbyist user.

 

The important thing is to think about what you'd like to do, then find out which tools you need for that. Especially if you are on a budget: don't buy too cheap, or you will have to buy again if you later find out the original tool wasn't suited for your requirements. Buying too expensive will only loose you some money, but you might not gain much from it - having top-notch equipment doesn't automatically make you a better engineer.

 

I understand what you mean Hiassoft. Often I guess you are looking for when a signal goes high or low, not the exact voltage of that signal - which when I think about it is the essence of digital electronics over analogue!

There are times when you need to know both, and there are also times when you need to know what happened before that event.

 

An analog scope won't show you what happened before the trigger event. It just starts to sweep the beam from left to right when it triggers.

 

In order to see something on an analog scope the trigger needs to occur very frequently, otherwise the image will be too dark (down to a point to being not visible at all).

 

A simple example: you want to check how a switch bounces (all mechanical switches bounce and it usually takes a few ms until they have stabilized). Pressing the button is a one-shot event and you won't be able to see anything with an analog scope.

 

Some 5-10 years ago digital scopes were either quite limited or just too expensive and choosing an old analog scope was often the more economical choice. But things have changed quite a lot, for example you get intensity graded display (like on an analog scope) and high waveform update rates even on low-end DSOs and the price of these has dropped to a point where hobbyist users are able to afford them.

 

so long,

 

Hias

[Van]

Still - I am a bit encouraged by the general message which seems to be you actually don't need the top shelf brands to 'do electronics'. I think I may open a specific thread on 'bargain basement' gear and suggestions as I think it overlaps so strongly with retro modding. I am pretty sure a lot of chaps are going to find themselves branching out a bit once they get a taste for installing Ultimate1MB and VBXE's. It certainly reawakened my interest as I hadn't touched a multimeter in over 20 years before April!!!

Really, you can get by on a lean budget. For years I was a field service tech working on RF systems, lugged around an IFR COM-120B (an all-in-one test bench the size of a suitcase) everyday. Now a days, for my own projects, a DMM, logic probe and a stable PSU is my test bench. Most of my 'tool budget' goes to programming tools, AVR, PIC, EPROM, JTAG stuff.

A decent DMM in the $50 to $100 range will see you well equipped for 80% of your tasks. Look for one with added features such as continuity testing, diode/transistor testing, frequency counter, and Cap testing. I've got a RS model that's my main goto. With it and a simple Logic probe you can nail down most digital problems. Is the circuit wired correct? Is there a short or an open? Is pwr good? Is the clock running? Answering these questions solves most the problems you encounter.

It's true that for really bleeding edge new design work, sooner or later you will need/want the bigger toys; but for troubleshooting, most the time just isolating a sub section that's not working is enough. Compared to Audio and RF designs, Digital is easy.

Most of troubleshooting takes place in your gray matter, the tools just confirm your hunches

Yogi