What was the first "platform" game?

[Godzilla]

well i could see the argument that the exploration is more of a player imposed element. ie youve played the game so damn much you know that u have to start exploring if you want to get all the treasures. but by its normal play nature, its just running forward collectiing things. when uve started playing a game a zillion times and are figuring out things i dont know if thats an argueable exploration game play element, kind of like figuring out how to shoot the first rows of space invaders last by using your leading shots to destroy the back rows first, thats player obsession creating exploration where there is none inherently in the game. :-)

[ZylonBane]

I would think Pitfall actually has an exploration factor. Since you have to discover the correct underground passages needed to reach all the screens without missing any treasures, that's exploration.

If you want to be sure not to miss any treasures, just don't use the underground passages at all.

 

I guess you could make a case for there being (minimal) exploration in Pitfall, but the lack of puzzles still rules it out of the adventure genre.

 

EDIT: I should clarify that in an adventure game, the primary emphasis is on exploration. There's almost always collection of unique items involved as well. Just didn't want anyone to think I considered Doom an adventure game.

[Xot]

I would think Pitfall actually has an exploration factor. Since you have to discover the correct underground passages needed to reach all the screens without missing any treasures, that's exploration.

If you want to be sure not to miss any treasures, just don't use the underground passages at all.

 

I guess you could make a case for there being (minimal) exploration in Pitfall, but the lack of puzzles still rules it out of the adventure genre.

 

EDIT: I should clarify that in an adventure game, the primary emphasis is on exploration. There's almost always collection of unique items involved as well. Just didn't want anyone to think I considered Doom an adventure game.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I didn't think it was possible to cycle through all the screens before the time ran out... in other words, you MUST use the passages to get all the treasures in time.

 

I'd call Doom an adventure game. To me, 'adventure' implies multiple pathways as opposed to static levels or screens, which therefore allow a certain element of exploration. Action games, to me, tend to have only one correct path to the goal... games like Double Dragon, Commando, MERCS, Cabal, Contra.

[ZylonBane]

I'd call Doom an adventure game.

I don't think you'll find many people who share that opinion.

[Xot]

I'd call Doom an adventure game.

I don't think you'll find many people who share that opinion.

 

That sounds like a challenge if ever I heard one.

 

Anyone want to back me up on calling Doom an adventure game?

 

Either way, that's why it's called an opinion. :wink:

[CPUWIZ]

Doom = Adventure game

[ZylonBane]

If "adventure" had a firm definition that we could point to, it would be a statement of fact, not an opinion.

 

But still, mention "adventure games" to someone and I severely doubt "Doom" is the first thing they'll think of.

[Xot]

It also depends on how broad we're defining things... I mean what genre would you give it? It could easily be called Action, Shooter, or FPS, depending on how broad we're defining it. There's no reason why it can't also fall into more than one category. Are racing games sports games? Are RPGs adventure games? Are FPS's adventure games?

 

Video games, moreso than any other media, are extremely difficult to narrow down to a single genre without making the genre extremely specific, like "First-person action adventure game."

 

For that matter, how would you classify Metroid Prime? Action? Adventure? FPS? 3-D Platformer? ALL of these genres could be considered correct.

[ZylonBane]

You just have to go with the "best fit" definition.

 

I mean, Empire Strikes Back has romance and comedy, but nobody calls it a romantic comedy.

[Xot]

You just have to go with the "best fit" definition.

 

I mean, Empire Strikes Back has romance and comedy, but nobody calls it a romantic comedy.

 

So what's the "best fit" for Doom and Metroid Prime???

 

Romance and comedy are not key elements of Empire. The argument I'm making is twofold:

 

1. A key element of adventure games is exploration - the ability to choose multiple paths in order to discover the end of a level or game.

2. Exploration is a key element of Doom.

 

Which of these do you disagree with and why?

[tssk]

Re : Doom

 

I've always thought of Doom as a shootem up. Playing it on the higher difficulty levels on the PSOne is probably the closest you'll ever get to playing Robotron in 3D.

 

tssk

[Gregory DG]

I can't remember where I read/heard this but it's been said that Donkey Kong is more of a maze game than a platform game. That's because there is a limited number of passages you can go.

 

A platform game is more open I think... much like Super Mario Bros.

[NoahsMyBro]

I'd consider 'Mario Brothers' - the original (arcade, 5200), 1-screen - pipes, turtles & coins - to be a Platform Game.

 

I'd also call DK a platform game.

 

IMO, if there are various platforms, accessible via jumping, falling, climbing, ladders, whathaveyou, it's a platform game. It's that simple.

 

Well, not that simple. For example - Miner 2049'er, City Connection - without question. BUT, what about Elevator Action? That doesn't seem to me to be a platform game, but it certainly fits my definition above. And what about Peter Packrat? I'm not sure whether or not I'd call that a platformer. I guess I'd put Peter Packrat into the category.

[JaySeaver]

When games like Super Mario Bros came out, they were commonly referred to as "scrolling platformers". And SMB (1985) wasn't even the first game of its type. That honor belongs to Pac-Land (1984).

Didn't "Smurf" for the ColecoVision come out before that?

[Miqorz]

What about Joust?

[Room 34]

If you want to be sure not to miss any treasures, just don't use the underground passages at all.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I didn't think it was possible to cycle through all the screens before the time ran out... in other words, you MUST use the passages to get all the treasures in time.

Xot is right. The timer is what creates the suspense in Pitfall! As Ben so eloquently described, to truly master the game you have to work out exactly the proper sequence of paths to take through the underground to shave off enough time to get to all 32 treasures. Personally I never had the patience for it (or enough interest)... even with Ben's map.

 

The puzzle embedded with Ben's map, however... that's another story!

[Room 34]

I'm not sure what I would say is the "first" platform game. (OK, I do... I'd say it's Pitfall!) What I am sure about, though, is that this excessive genre defining and classification/compartmentalizing of games is largely to blame for the carbon-copy approach most modern games take. It seems like there are no original concepts anymore... just various takes on the same tired genres with perpetual incremental improvements in the "realism" of the graphics and sound, or changes of venue for the action.

 

To me, though, it doesn't matter if a "shooter" takes place on the WWII battlefield, a starship patterned after a popular sci-fi film, or whatever other type of environment you want. I don't really care about the nuances of the lighting and shadows or the realistic way blood splatters on the ground when a guy gets his arm blasted off. It's all the same old tired crap I've seen in a hundred other games over the last decade.

 

So let's stop worrying about whether a game is a "shooter" or a "platform" or an "RPG" and just think about whether it is fun or has an original concept.

 

...Sorry for the rant...

[Godzilla]

some people would go crazy and have their heads explode if they couldn't put everything in a few neat pidgeon-holes, no matter how ill the fit.

 

but to contradict myself :-)

I'd think of doom as a shooter with exploration. I don't really see any adventuring elements in doom tho. I admit, when I hear adventure, I think more along the lines of a text adventure, or a point n click, or 2600 raiders. but raiders also makes me think of it as an rpg... see how messy it gets?

[ZylonBane]

Raiders isn't an RPG (or rather, CRPG), since there's no character development.

 

I went on a net trawling expedition to see if I could dredge up a decent definition of an adventure game, and this is the best I found--

http://www.quandaryland.com/2001/name_of_the_game.htm

 

"A rose is a rose is a rose…"

Frequently adventure games are defined by what they are not. They are not Role-playing games, First Person Shooters, Real Time Strategy, Flight Sims, Racing, Sports or Sim games. Clearly these are other genres that are not suffering from an identity crisis and most adventure game fans (and maybe even our critics) would agree that they are not adventure games.

 

Defining what an adventure game is, on the other hand, takes a little more thought. As mentioned above, having a story does not automatically single out a game as being an adventure. Strangely enough neither does the mere inclusion of a series of puzzles. There are games such as Jewels of the Oracle, for example, that have a thin storyline and present the player with a range of logic puzzles unrelated to the basic premise. They may be fun to play and may appeal predominantly to those players who would normally seek out adventure games but they are not adventure games and may be considered as Puzzle games. (Though I wouldn’t want to be accused of limiting them by placing a too-rigid definition on them).

 

"It means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less"

As with other genres adventure games can be defined by the predominant activity or style of gameplay. In this case it involves exploring a given game world for a particular purpose by using one’s reasoning capabilities to overcome contextual obstacles to progress. I think most adventure game fans would agree that this is more or less what goes on in adventure games, only it is usually much more fun than it sounds when written like that. Unfortunately the term ‘adventure’ doesn’t really describe that process as vividly as say, First Person Shooter describes the essence of that genre.

Miqorz-- Joust is... Joust. AFAIK there's been nothing else quite like it.

 

JaySeaver-- Did Smurf on the Colecovision scroll? I thought it was just a series of connected screens, like the 2600 version. No scrolling involved.

 

tssk-- Ever played Serious Sam? Now that is the closest to Robotron 3D you'll ever get.

[Room 34]

Actually, I'd put Joust and Mario Bros. (the original) in the same genre... whatever genre that would be.

 

Popeye could probably fit in that too. And in fact then it's not too far of a stretch from that to Donkey Kong and Kangaroo.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

I really do not understand why it is so important to stereotype games.

 

IMO sterotyping sucks!

[Godzilla]

i don't think it's important at all.

 

but i do think it can help on those boring slow friday days at work when it's beautiful outsidfe, and you can't leave.

 

and some degree of agreed terminology helps when discussing games, otherwise we'd all have to give detailed game descriptions everytime we wanted to discuss something.

[ZylonBane]

I can't remember where I read/heard this but it's been said that Donkey Kong is more of a maze game than a platform game. That's because there is a limited number of passages you can go.

That definition is excessively broad, and would include lots of games that nobody would seriously consider a "maze game".

 

Room 34, I don't consider Joust a platform game because walking on the ledges isn't the primary play mechanic of the game. Most of the time they're simply obstacles to your flight. You don't see people calling flight sims "driving games" because you can taxi on the ground, right?

[Room 34]

Good point.

 

But I wouldn't call Mario Bros. a platform game either. One of the elements of platform games, as I see it, is either scrolling or movement between multiple screens.

 

I think the overall concepts of Mario Bros. and Joust are pretty similar... run (fly, whatever) around a fixed screen (which has wraparound) and fend off a plethora of bad guys who are coming after you. The details obviously differ greatly, but the fundamental concept is fairly similar, and if you squint hard enough the games almost look alike.

[Room 34]

I think all of this really just proves my earlier point though that obsessing over how to classify games is a futile exercise and, in fact, is detrimental to the further creative development of original game ideas.

 

It's nice to try to compartmentalize the world, but in the end, all you've got is a bunch of stuff that all looks the same, so it will fit neatly in its box.

 

Pretty boring world, if you ask me.