Zelda: The Wind Waker BLOWS

[theaveng]

Originally posted by octorok_and_roll

Wind Waker is the collaborative efforts of creating OoT and perfecting what wasn't perfect about it.

Yeah, Wind Waker is perfect except...

 

- the bosses are wimps

- the puzzles are ridiculously easy

- the triforce search is boring and pointless

- the ending is only 3 minutes and waaaay too short

- Ganandorf is killable with a single blow <--- lame

 

But other than that (90% of the game flawed), Wind Waker is perfect.

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You know what, I am so sick of people loving a game simply because "Nintendo made it, so it is teh shizzle!" A game should be judged HONESTLY, not with fanboy bias.

 

I've played videogames for over 25 years (think Atari), and the Wind Waker is not the worst game I've ever played, but it's pretty darn close:

- not exciting

- not challenging

- not worth purchasing

 

The only good things I can say about Wind Waker are:

- sound was superb

- anime-style graphics were beautiful

 

Sadly, graphics and sound do NOT make a good game... just as filling a Hollywood movie with lots of pretty special effects does not make a good movie. Wind Waker is a BAD, BAD game.

 

I sold WW + Bonus Disc for $80, pocketed the money, and will now try to forget the most boring 30 hours I've ever spent in front of a TV.

[kisrael]

Yeah, Wind Waker is perfect except...

 

- the bosses are wimps

- the puzzles are ridiculously easy

- the triforce search is boring and pointless

- the ending is only 3 minutes and waaaay too short

- Ganandorf is killable with a single blow <--- lame

 

But other than that (90% of the game flawed), Wind Waker is perfect.

Haha...wind waker blows...wind, blows...hahahaha, you made a funny.

 

My main problem with this game is that it's a bit too similar to previous games. Both it and Metroid have similar issues of being a bit too puzzley and linear, and a bit too much "lets do it just like we did last time" (+"except in 3D" in Metroid's case)

 

I didn't think the bosses or puzzles were too easy for enjoyment. I usually got killed once or twice per boss, a lot more than that and it would have been too frustrating.

 

Triforce search wasn't nearly as bad as people made it out to be.

 

I don't agree that the ending was too short, never mind waaaaaaaay to short. You expected to see a whole sequel in the ending? Yeesh. (though the bubbles over the credits were pretty lame and 70s-anime feeling)

 

And "single blow<-lame" is wrong on two levels, it's not a single blow and it's not lame. You needed to get a lot of hits to get to that point, including that weird manuever w/ Zelda. And it was really cool that Ganon wasn't just some floating giant monster, but a well trained and almost human sized warrior.

[Mikau]

Originally posted by octorok_and_roll

Wind Waker is the collaborative efforts of creating OoT and perfecting what wasn't perfect about it.

Yeah, Wind Waker is perfect except...

 

- the bosses are wimps

- the puzzles are ridiculously easy

- the triforce search is boring and pointless

- the ending is only 3 minutes and waaaay too short

- Ganandorf is killable with a single blow <--- lame

 

But other than that (90% of the game flawed), Wind Waker is perfect.

.

.

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You know what, I am so sick of people loving a game simply because "Nintendo made it, so it is teh shizzle!" A game should be judged HONESTLY, not with fanboy bias.

 

I've played videogames for over 25 years (think Atari), and the Wind Waker is not the worst game I've ever played, but it's pretty darn close:

- not exciting

- not challenging

- not worth purchasing

 

The only good things I can say about Wind Waker are:

- sound was superb

- anime-style graphics were beautiful

 

Sadly, graphics and sound do NOT make a good game... just as filling a Hollywood movie with lots of pretty special effects does not make a good movie. Wind Waker is a BAD, BAD game.

 

I sold WW + Bonus Disc for $80, pocketed the money, and will now try to forget the most boring 30 hours I've ever spent in front of a TV.

 

I think I just figured out why you got banned from n-philes.

[sdstuff64]

I agree with some of that but I still think it is a great game.Is it the best game ever?No.Is it a great game?Hell ya.

[PuddWakkr]

Every gaming magazine in the world gave the game perfect scores how could it not be the greatest game ever.

(Please refer to the thread on the integrity of journalists)

[Mikau]

Every gaming magazine in the world gave the game perfect scores how could it not be the greatest game ever.

(Please refer to the thread on the integrity of journalists)

 

*Sarcasm Detector explodes*

[sdstuff64]

Want more game?

http://www.planetgamecube.com/news.cfm?act...on=item&id=4244

[dirtboy69]

just a question. if it's so horrible of a game why play and beat it

[shep]

It may not be the best game in the world, I enjoy it, but not all of everyones opinions are biased just because they like the game. There is a lot worse out there than Wind Waker, 2600 Pacman anyone? Your just trying to get people fired up...you have your own opinion though, and that's cool that you don't like it, but just because people like the game doesn't mean they have some fanboyism bias.

[Nintendo Penguin]

This game has been begged on a lot.... first it was the new graphics, then it was gameplay, then it was athe ending.

 

Maybe some people bought a different version of the game then me... I thought it was a great game.

[theaveng]

Yeah I was banned from n-philes. Do you think that's right? To ban a person simply because he utters the wrong opinion? I don't. Sounds anti-free speech to me.

 

And "single blow<-lame" is wrong on two levels, it's not a single blow and it's not lame. You needed to get a lot of hits to get to that point, including that weird manuever w/ Zelda.  And it was really cool that Ganon wasn't just some floating giant monster, but a well trained and almost human sized warrior.

Yes, like most things in Wind Waker, Ganandorf LOOKED good, but as I said in my first post..... beautiful graphics and special effects don't equal a good game. It's the GAME that matters, not the pretty colors.

 

STORY ENDING: I was expecting something like Ocarina's ending. THAT was a good ending that lasted several minutes (about 15). WW's ending was about 3. It was a huge disappointment.

 

Also kisrael, it IS possible to beat Wind Waker's Ganandorf in a single blow. As I said, that's lame. If you want to see a GOOD final battle, go fight Ganandorf in Ocarina of Time. 50% of the time, I end up losing, and that's how a game SHOULD be. A game should challenge the player.

 

Here's how to beat Ganandorf with a single blow:

SPOILERS FOR FINAL WIND WAKER FIGHT:

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--- Run around in circles while Zelda hits Ganandorf with light arrows.

--- After the 3rd hit, Ganandorf knocks Zelda out.

--- Continue running in circles until Zelda wakes up.

--- Zelda bounces arrow off your shield, and you kill Ganandorf with ONE BLOW.

 

See, the so-called "battle" isn't a battle at all. It's just a pre-programmed play that unfolds exactly the same every time. You don't have to do anything except press "A" on the final blow.

 

LAME.

 

The final battle is like playing Dragon's Lair again where you just follow pre-programmed button pushing. That was acceptable in 1983, but it's not acceptable in a modern 2003 game. The Ganandorf battle should have been an actual BATTLE, not merely a pre-programmed sequence of events.

[kisrael]

Yeah I was banned from n-philes.  Do you think that's right?  To ban a person simply because he utters the wrong opinion?  I don't.  Sounds anti-free speech to me.

 

I have no idea about n-philes, but some kinds of trolling are very annoying. A community funded in a private way has a right to police itself without it being a free speech issue.

 

Yes, like most things in Wind Waker, Ganandorf LOOKED good, but as I said in my first post..... beautiful graphics and special effects don't equal a good game.  It's the GAME that matters, not the pretty colors.

 

Ganondorf looked and played well.

 

And what was cool was the visual look per se (though that was pretty decent) but more of the visual idea, that it wasn't a typical big-o boss, but a swordsman not unlike yourself, who used his blades for attack and defense.

 

STORY ENDING: I was expecting something like Ocarina's ending.  THAT was a good ending that lasted several minutes (about 15).  WW's ending was about 3.  It was a huge disappointment.

 

But did Ocarina have as much story immediately before the very final battle? I think if you count "general ending sequence" rather than "movie you see after you've touched the controller for the last time", Wind Waker holds its own.

 

Also kisrael, it IS possible to beat Wind Waker's Ganandorf in a single blow.

 

I'm pretty sure you're wrong, see below.

 

As I said, that's lame.  If you want to see a GOOD final battle, go fight Ganandorf in Ocarina of Time.  50% of the time, I end up losing, and that's how a game SHOULD be.  A game should challenge the player.

 

A game shouldn't neccesarily be a huge challenge to an elite playa with them mad skillz such as yourself, because then lesser players might not have a chance.

 

If you want more of a challenge, set goals for yourself like not having to use a fairy, or not getting hit once.

 

SPOILERS IMMEDIATELY FOLLOW

Here's how to beat Ganandorf with a single blow:

--- Run around in circles while Zelda hits Ganandorf with light arrows.

--- After the 3rd hit, Ganandorf knocks Zelda out.

--- Continue running in circles until Zelda wakes up.

--- Zelda bounces arrow off your shield, and you kill Ganandorf with ONE BLOW.

I tried this, and Zelda didn't wake up until I started attacking Ganondorf, and I was running for a long time. (And I don't think anyone would just run anyway, unless they had a point to prove.)

 

See, the so-called "battle" isn't a battle at all.  It's just a pre-programmed play that unfolds exactly the same every time.  You don't have to do anything except press "A" on the final blow.

 

Think this through. If you're running too much in the first segment, Ganon will always be jumping and the arrow won't hit. Positioning is important, but you have to exercise the defensive shielding and jumping you've learned. In the second part, Zelda won't wake up unless you get hits in. You're going to get get banged around unless you've picked up some good fighting skills. Finally, you have to position yourself well and be using the shield correctly for the arrow to bounce...a few times I'd accidentally put Ganondorf between me and the princess, and he'd jump over the arrow. Finally, you have to realize that you use A counterstrike instead of the usual B attacks. I screwed that up the first time.

 

LAME.  

 

The final battle is like playing Dragon's Lair again where you just follow pre-programmed button pushing.  That was acceptable in 1983, but it's not acceptable in a modern 2003 game.  The Ganandorf battle should have been an actual BATTLE, not merely a pre-programmed sequence of events.

Quit whining so much. It's nothing like Dragon's Lair, tough I commend you in showing some amount of game history with the reference.

 

MORE SPOILERS (Ocarina)

Also, if you consider the larger endings of the two games, both games look better, esp. Wind Waker. Ocarina has a Ganondorf fight, then a tower escape, then Ganon. Wind Waker has 3 Puppet Ganons before the very final Ganondorf duel. (And I really liked figuring out how to use the reflection for fighting the spider form.)

[chrisbid]

Yeah I was banned from n-philes.  Do you think that's right?  To ban a person simply because he utters the wrong opinion?  I don't.  Sounds anti-free speech to me.

 

 

its a nintendo message board, the people running the board have the right to censor whatever they want. (free speech doesn't exist in real life anyway)

 

as for the game itself, i never got into the N64 Zelda games, as i dont care for 3D worlds like those. So i doubt ill find Wind Walker any better.

[kisrael]

as for the game itself, i never got into the N64 Zelda games, as i dont care for 3D worlds like those.  So i doubt ill find Wind Walker any better.

Shrug, your loss. But I only played Zelda 2 before playing Ocarina of time, and I when I went back to the original Zelda, I was surprised at how closely Ocarina was modeled on it. (And also, Zelda in 2D was a lot closer to being a "3D world" than Mario or Metroid, since the overhead 3/4 perspective is ultimately more "lifelike" than the pure side perspective of the other 2 games...think of what a skinny world Samus is walking around in in every game but Prime!)

[Gabriel]

Actually, when I opened up this thread I figured it would be one of those with a negative title but luminous praise for contents. I just wanted to see what people are saying about the newest version of Zelda.

 

Personally, I didn't buy it and I won't be buying it. Why?

 

1) Beyond the original Zelda on the NES, I feel that all the other installments are bad games. The further removed they are from the original, the more exponentially bad they get.

 

2) I feel that cel-shading is the anti-christ. I honestly feel that it is the ugliest form of graphics that I've ever seen. I don't think it makes things look like a cartoon. I just think cel-shading makes things look cheap (best case) or mind bogglingly crappy (worst case). And I have to say that, IMO, the newest Zelda leans heavily toward the bad side of things.

 

3) What is that guy's name? Miyamoto or something? It seems like he ruins every game he has touched for the past 10 years. For example, his touch upon Starfox 64 took a wonderful shooter and turned it into utter drek. He seems to actually try to take the fun OUT of games rather than try to make them entertaining.

 

But, hey, if people like it, then that's their business. I still enjoy playing Battle Arena Toshinden 2, so people will call me warped for that. When people are having fun with a game they like, sometimes the good vibes rub off on us fellow gamers. Play what you like, and try not to ruin anyone else's fun.

 

If you feel the game sucks, take it down to the used game shop and get $25 credit towards something you do like. Or sell it on eBay and get nearly the price of a new game. I did that when I felt Panzer Dragoon Orta sucked ass. I got Xenosaga as a replacement. That's a decision I certainly don't regret.

[MGSnake15]

I agree with some of that but I still think it is a great game.Is it the best game ever?No.Is it a great game?Hell ya.

amen

[ubersaurus]

of things.

 

3) What is that guy's name?  Miyamoto or something?  It seems like he ruins every game he has touched for the past 10 years.  For example, his touch upon Starfox 64 took a wonderful shooter and turned it into utter drek.  He seems to actually try to take the fun OUT of games rather than try to make them entertaining.

.

 

He's the guy that made the original Star Fox and Zelda and Mario....

[Gabriel]

He's the guy that made the original Star Fox and Zelda and Mario....

 

Actually, as I understand it, Argonaut Software created the original Starfox with minimal to no involvement from Mr. Whateverhisnameis.

 

In any event, it doesn't change the fact that I loved the original and felt that Starfox 64 blew gigantic planetoid sized chunks.

 

I gave my copy of Starfox 64 to my landlady's son. He liked it a great deal. We both ended up winners. He got a free game that he loved. And I didn't have to look at the damn thing anymore.

[kisrael]

I gave my copy of Starfox 64 to my landlady's son.  He liked it a great deal.  We both ended up winners.  He got a free game that he loved.  And I didn't have to look at the damn thing anymore.  

What the hell was wrong with Starfox 64? It's the single game that got me to buy a N64, which turned out to be about the best single console investment I've ever made. (Because of its innovative controllers and 4 ports) Going back to the original is painful...not only are the graphics (obviously) extremely limited, but the control pad is horrendous, the genre really cries out for analog control (in fact the lack of floaty analog control might be why Starfox 2 got canned)

 

I know a lot of gaming is opinion, and there's always the game that seems like it should work for you but just doesn't, but if not, I'd like to here a rational description of the perceived badness of Starfox 64. Besides "Slippy's Hit!" I mean. From beautiful graphics planet side, to hoardes of enemies in space, to solid shooter gameplay, to some innovative bosses, to a great homage/ripoff of the saucer in ID4, this game was great.

[kisrael]

(For the record Gabriel priave msg'd me. In short he finds N64 a big let down from the original, too easy, with annoying wingmen, with bad voice acting and sound F/X, and too much heavy handed lock on in lieu of "intricate manuevers". He also didn't find anything save Killer Instinct and Rogue Leader to his liking on N64 (mentioning Mario and Perfect Dark weren't his cuppa) though he wouldn't mind seeing Ogre Battle, and that the controllers are awful.

 

I think making it possible for a less skilled player to get to at least one ending is not a crime, especially with medals to collect and alternate, rather difficult paths to choose, only Slippy was that bad, good sound FX highlighted by the innovative rumblepack that cme with the game, and that the original's intricate manuvers were 40% crappy graphics and 40% crappy control. I asked about N64 multiplayer like Smash Bros, Mario Kart, Mario Parties, Mario Tennis, Pokemon Puzzle League, Battle Tanx. Or maybe Bangai-O--he mentioned that his hope for a Robotech game was his unfufilled reason for getting the system. Oh, and I thought the controllers were great...a bit hardh on the top of the analog stick, and with a kind of weird two grip mode, but innovative, plus there were 4 of 'em. Though GC is better, more comfrtable and with smarter button shaping.

 

It was a nice, non-flaming (except for me accusing him of smoking crack) dialog, and I thought I'd summarize it here)

[theaveng]

I am not changing my opinion kisreal even if you jump up and down and scream like a banshee. I have played the game, I KNOW what I experienced, and what I experienced was not the worst game in the world, but it was pretty darn close. It was too easy, too boring, and overall too lame for me to enjoy.

 

You can continue arguing with me if you wish kisrael but *nothing* you say will alter my opinion. So stop wasting your breath. The points I made are 100% valid, and no matter how you try to twist the facts, they won't change. The facts are the facts, and you can't alter them.

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That said, here's how the final Ganandorf fight could have been improved: Give him an energy bar. This energy bar would prevent you from using the final head stab until you hit Ganandorf ~100 times and he was completely drained of energy. That way, there would be at least some *challenge* to the battle.

 

Also, I think this game and most games should have multiple difficulty settings:

-----Easy - for children or non-"elite playas"* like kisrael who can't handle challenge... the way Wind Waker is now.

-----Medium - for the average adult... the way Ocarina is.

-----Hard - for hardcore gamers like me who desire a real challenge... like Metroid Prime on hard.

 

Troy

 

*Kisrael's words, not mine.

[kisrael]

I am not changing my opinion kisreal even if you jump up and down and scream like a banshee.

I don't think I was a lot "banshee like" to my posts, but hey.

 

It's rare that someone'sopinion really gets changed in this kind of discussion, but if you argue calmly and read what the other person has to say, you can learn stuff. For example, I didn't realize that you didn't have have to fight for the first segment of the battle, and while I think you've been proved wrong in your claim that one button press is all you need for the final battle, it was interesting to try out.

 

But with the way you go on the attack, I'm not surprised you were banned off of other boards. I'm not saying it's right, but I'm not surprised.

 

That said, here's how the final Ganandorf fight could have been improved: Give him an energy bar.  This energy bar would prevent you from using the final head stab until you hit Ganandorf ~100 times and he was completely drained of energy.  That way, there would be at least some *challenge* to the battle.

Shrug, Miyamoto isn't too into energy bars, except for Link's own. And I can see the idea, taken to an extreme by "The Getaway" that they kind of take you out of the world--Link might be aware of his own health, but he wouldn't instantly know what was going on with his enemy,

 

Also, I think this game and most games should have multiple difficulty settings:

-----Easy - for children or non-"elite playas"* like kisrael who can't handle challenge... the way Wind Waker is now.

-----Medium - for the average adult... the way Ocarina is.

-----Hard - for hardcore gamers like me who desire a real challenge... like Metroid Prime on hard.

I fall somewhere between children and the elite...leaning more towards the elite. But really, with any game, there's only a certain amount of time and energy I'm willing to devote to it. I like some challenge, but I can't afford to spend days and days at one little part of any given game.

 

Multiple difficulties might be cool, but they're not always easy to do right and get each level to work for its target audience.

[Mikau]

Yeah I was banned from n-philes.  Do you think that's right?  To ban a person simply because he utters the wrong opinion?  I don't.  Sounds anti-free speech to me.

 

I don't think you deserved a ban. But over there, zig can be pretty lazy, as well as all the other mods too. They usually ban people because they get flooded with "mark for moderation" and PMs from annoyed newbies. It's always hard to voice a different opinion than the normal (like when I said Metroid Prime's controls were perfect and Mario Sunshine's camera was easy to work with). But hey, you're back there now, so there's always a tomorow.

 

Sorry for being so

[Yar]

Ya know, Wind Waker was an excellent game. Was it the best game ever made? No. Did it have alot of flaws? Yes. The final sequence was dissapointing, and the challenge could have been greater. I didn't die a single time while playing the game. The Ocean travel sometimes bored me, and the boss fights were often a let down.

 

 

But it was still fun, and really, that's all that matters.

 

 

Want a nice, fun game that you can enjoy? Get Wind Waker.

 

Want a game for "hardcore skillz"? Buy Maximo.

[theaveng]

That said, here's how the final Ganandorf fight could have been improved: Give him an energy bar.  This energy bar would prevent you from using the final head stab until you hit Ganandorf ~100 times and he was completely drained of energy.  That way, there would be at least some *challenge* to the battle.

Shrug, Miyamoto isn't too into energy bars, except for Link's own.

Did you actually PLAY Wind Waker? First you claimed that Ganandorf takes tons of hits... when in reality it only takes me ONE hit. (Yes, I can kill him in one hit. I'd record the final battle and mail it to you to prove it, but I already sold the game.) NOW, you're saying Miyamoto doesn't use energy bars.

 

FLAW: Every non-boss enemy has an energy bar (wear the golden mask and you'll see them). Don't tell me you didn't know that? How can you accurately judge a game when you are so obviously *uninformed* about the basics?

 

 

 

(shaking head) I realize it's not your fault you didn't know about the energy bars, but it IS rather lame for you to say "Miyamoto isn't into energy bars," when it is so obviously wrong.

 

You shouldn't make statements like that unless you're 100% certain and/or have facts to back you up.

 

Do the research FIRST, then make the statement backed up with facts. Or else, say nothing at all.