mikey.shake Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 me and several others on this forum are at least somewhat concerned for his well being. I've been casually following this story since the RetroVGS fell apart. And kevtris seemed like a stand-up guy who got caught in a weird situation. The repeated fake prototypes of the Chameleon led me to believe that Kennedy was a salesman, maybe an excellent one, who had no real product to sell. I'd be surprised to find anyone else was pulling the strings. I feel like he banked on kevtris' proven track record of stellar work, and when he (Kennedy) realized his unrealistic expectations couldn't be met, it seems to me like he had to keep going and save face (and maybe what money he still had) at that point. There were lots of questionable things on the fundraising campaigns that I'm not as informed about. But the apparent "SNES-in-a-Jag" prototype was a big strike against it, and this latest "DVR-in-a-shell" is just flabbergasting. I'm not terribly well versed in electronics beyond solder-by-numbers, but I take in very good faith the word of reputable AtariAge members who say that it's just a prop. (And props to them for solving these so fast!) I can't say exactly what it means, but it certainly raises questions of "willful deception", and should therefore be taken as a serious matter by 1) those who have invested, or were planning to do so based on the media presence of the console, or 2) those who don't want to see people get ripped off. I can't be certain, but the evidence seems to indicate to me that while Kennedy may at one time have legitimately had the best of intentions to fund and produce this console, the latest maneuvers are just "smoke and mirrors" moves by a salesman who's been caught selling gossamer where there ain't any. I believe that people shouldn't be too quick to rush to judgement on anyone indirectly involved with the production of the console -- those who were made other promises the same way the buying public and funding base were. It's clear by the number of fantastical fluff pieces on the 'net about this machine that there were a lot of people willing to print whatever was coming out of Mike Kennedy's mouth. And frankly, what we were hearing sounded great -- if you thought it was a technical possibility. It *is* the responsibility of the media to vet and verify this information (I'm a journalist by day), and it's a shame so much passive shilling happened, rather than researched reporting. Those who did so are now learning a valuable lesson for printing press releases. Unfortunately, that's all too common a practice, even outside the gaming community. For gamester81 to come here and apologize and explain seemed like a really classy move on his part. I'm sure it's very difficult to do that, and while I certainly agree that it would be best addressed on his YouTube channel, with its 97K followers at the moment, coming here to the eye of the storm was probably a good first step, especially when the main issue a lot of people here had was more personal in nature, based on previous comments. I'm not surprised some of the videos came down, since if I were trying to distance myself from that situation, I'd probably do the same to ensure nobody else was misled by them inadvertently with all the press this is getting. I'd likely put up an explanation. Regardless, owning up to a mistake in judgement is impressive on this public a scale, and I for one appreciated his apology. But it will definitely affect how I view his future videos. But the real reason I even bother posting is that comment I quoted up top. There have been an alarming number of people making comments in very poor taste about "what Mike Kennedy should do". I love this forum, because it's usually the equivalent of a sleepy, rural, friendly little village of us dust-loving Atari folk. I'm not terribly sensitive, and I've got a particularly disturbed sense of humor, but suggestions of suicide are just gross and tacky. I've dealt with depression, and while I try to be an upstanding guy, the thought of being ruined on this crazy, public, "burn-up-on-reentry" level is pretty anxiety-inducing. Let's keep this civil. Mike Kennedy may be innocent in all this. He might also be a sleazy, money-grubbing, manipulative, shady, snake-oil rip-off artist without an iota of foresight or common sense in his head. If he's the latter, I sure as hell hope he gets his in both a legal and karmic sense, in a big way. But let's none of us wish harm on him as a person. And props to those of you who've already pointed this out. Rage on, AtariAge. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thierry Henry Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 I certainly didn't mean to come across as calling you guys "haters", and I do apologize for ever alluding to that. That was wrong of me, and again ignorant and stupid for me to say. Public apology appreciated. One thing though, you didn't just "allude" to the community as being "haters" and "toxic", you flat out said it. Repeatedly. So it makes no sense to say you didn't mean to come across that way. At the time you meant exactly that. But again, kudos to you now for reaching out and admitting you were wrong. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoofu Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 Believe we should be careful and not turn this into a Spanish Inquisition Sound like Gamester81, Collectorvision, and Piko were all burnt in this mess 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janus Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 Just looking over this mess and I was about to say the same thing. But lets put come context into play, the night the video capture card in a Jag was nailed we like MANY shared that image showing just what was in that case. And like many of you we saw mere minuets later that same image pulled from the RVGS FB page noted here as aaaaannnd its gone. So someone in control of that page saw that image and deleted it in response to it being re-purposed as proof of a sham. Next morning UK and I get emails and a phone call from none other than Socal Mike. We didn't respond because we knew it would be more of the same, he claimed he saw the image that morning and freaked out. I suspect setting up the who what where ummm I didn't know defence. No doubt looking to apply some combination of words to the issue because he was on the spot for deeds. And that is what this is all about, the endless use of language and words to create the appearance of a company, product, and world view, fix problems, address concerns, and rebut proof, but actions are no where to be seen other than parlour tricks to bolster the words. When we last spoke to Socal he was willing to apply any combination of words needed to "fix" the matter at hand but not the actions needed because those would possibly result in this thing not going forward. Now what do we have, hardware developers, software developers, business partners, former friends, the guy going to film the kickstarter and so many more all saying it was a cloud of words and when actions, proper and needed actions were demanded there was nothing. This is a small and connected community and if the organizational chart of people connected to this fiasco (by actual involvement) could be drawn it would be more vast than most of the observers here can imagine, but that network is in place and many of those people are talking and sharing. Many of us did not know about the promo video guy until his excellent video was recently posted, and he has likely never heard of many of us that were involved, but now we know one more guy that saw the same thing. And that pattern keeps repeating itself. Maybe I am a bit more of a hard nose sceptic but I am amazed at how long it took some to see what was going on, but after talking with so many and reading their thoughts on the matter I have to give some slack to them. Would it have been easier if: -Eli ran from the show floor screaming "Its a SNES, holy shit its a SNES" sure, but a young guy with a signed NDA and not being able to directly prove his gut? -A Coleco RWB handed a screwdriver over at the end of the toy fair and said open that thing now, they are not technical guys and business isn't conducted that way in general. -Gamester81, thenavguy, and so many other GOOD PEOPLE somehow arrived at the conclusion it was a sham earlier, ok they didn't -Ben Heck, Kevtris and other notables called BS earlier, maybe there business is not going after other projects as a first response. My opinion is after doubling down on the wrong choices and the use of words to fix things that action required (choices that would probably have meant no console) the thing just could not bluff its way over the guardrails and this project has arrived at a dead end, same result either way. Sounds just like another MK hater to me. Just wait until it's revealed. What everyone here fails to realize is that Daniel Kayser and David Giltian SAW the working FPGA board. Did you ever think maybe the DVR was just a clever marketing smoke-screen? Like I said, just wait and see, this console is a movement. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sh3-rg Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 Believe we should be careful and not turn this into a Spanish Inquisition Sound like Gamester81, Collectorvision, and Piko were all burnt in this mess From what the RGR guys said, it seems like every single person Mike involved from initial idea through to the recent fake prototyping could have suffered some level of crispiness around the edges. I've experienced this kind of thing first hand, where the guy at the top keeps everyone on a tight leash, but doesn't allow much or any interaction between individuals or cells, everything goes through him, often getting twisted or malformed along the way, depending on requirements. It's controlling, manipulative and very often as a direct result of insecurity and lack of trust (both ways). 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanta Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 Sounds just like another MK hater to me. Just wait until it's revealed. What everyone here fails to realize is that Daniel Kayser and David Giltian SAW the working FPGA board. Did you ever think maybe the DVR was just a clever marketing smoke-screen? Like I said, just wait and see, this console is a movement. Really?, Damage control?, you're tossing cups of water over a crashed plane. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamnotagoomba Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 Sounds just like another MK hater to me. Just wait until it's revealed. What everyone here fails to realize is that Daniel Kayser and David Giltian SAW the working FPGA board. Did you ever think maybe the DVR was just a clever marketing smoke-screen? Like I said, just wait and see, this console is a movement.Your gimmick has grown tiresome. 22 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+5-11under Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 Sounds just like another MK hater to me. Just wait until it's revealed. What everyone here fails to realize is that Daniel Kayser and David Giltian SAW the working FPGA board. Did you ever think maybe the DVR was just a clever marketing smoke-screen? Like I said, just wait and see, this console is a movement. It's a movement, that's for sure. I had one this morning. Clever marketing? No! Just more and more people becoming wiser (that's good, though) and caring less and less about the RetroVGS/Chameleon (that's probably good, too). There is no evidence of anything existing, besides the shell (and the tape). If something does exist, does it do anything that my SNES+Intellivision+ColecoVision+Atari or $5 or $35 Pi or existing computer can't do? If it can do more, is it significantly better or different, at a reasonable price? /that, or what iamnotagoomba said. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlaysWithWolves Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 It's not a witch hunt nor a Spanish Inquisition. It's about accountability and hopefully their not repeating those mistakes in the future. However, nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition. Believe we should be careful and not turn this into a Spanish Inquisition Sound like Gamester81, Collectorvision, and Piko were all burnt in this mess 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybird3rd Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 Sound like Gamester81, Collectorvision, and Piko were all burnt in this mess Agreed. Some of the principals involved have some fences to mend, and I'm sure they'll be more careful about certain things from now on, but I think it would be a mistake to assume that they're all equally guilty. In situations like this, there is a category of people on one end of the spectrum who are active participants and enablers, even though they're probably in a position to know what's really going on behind the scenes, especially after others reveal compelling evidence. They see an opportunity to use the situation for their own gain, and it's easier for them to turn a blind eye to the truth than it is to draw a line and to stand up for their convictions and for the community. Ultimately, it comes back to bite them. Toward the other end of the spectrum, there is the category of legitimate businesspersons who see a potential opportunity and assume that everyone involved is on the level. All they want is to establish a mutually beneficial business relationship, but unfortunately, they don't always do the necessary homework to realize how many skeletons are lurking in the closet. So, fairly or not, they're just close enough to the situation to be tainted with the stink when everything comes to light. I believe it was Osgeld who drew an analogy a few pages back to Apple and Foxconn, and it's an interesting one to consider. Many people consider Apple (with respect to their proximity to the issues with alleged working conditions at Foxconn) to be part of the first category, which is how the company became the butt of so many "child labor camp" jokes, but it may be the case that they're part of the second. I won't presume to say which people in this story belong in which category, because opinions will obviously differ, but the point is that nobody can really be sure, except for the people themselves. Mike Kennedy—and the shills in his orbit like Daniel Kayser and David Giltinan—are a different category altogether. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phillyman Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 (edited) The domain MikeKennedy.Info is available for just $3.17 from Godaddy. I am really tempted to buy it and redirect it to this thread. Edited March 2, 2016 by Phillyman 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+rdemming Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 Sounds just like another MK hater to me. Just wait until it's revealed. What everyone here fails to realize is that Daniel Kayser and David Giltian SAW the working FPGA board. Did you ever think maybe the DVR was just a clever marketing smoke-screen? Like I said, just wait and see, this console is a movement. If it was a marketing smoke-screen it was a very stupid one. Now nobody won't believe them when they come up with a real prototype even if it is genuine. I'm still not sure if your posts are really serious or if you are being sarcastic and pulling everybody's leg. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inky Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 Sounds just like another MK hater to me. Just wait until it's revealed. What everyone here fails to realize is that Daniel Kayser and David Giltian SAW the working FPGA board. Did you ever think maybe the DVR was just a clever marketing smoke-screen? Like I said, just wait and see, this console is a movement. I saw bigfoot playing poker with aliens who were spraying chemtrails in Atlantis. Trust me. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
galax Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 I'm still not sure if your posts are really serious or if you are being sarcastic and pulling everybody's leg. Looking at Janus's posting history in this thread, I'm pretty sure anyone who has taken his/her posts seriously has fallen foul of Poe's Law: without a clear indicator of the author's intent, parodies of extreme views will be mistaken by some readers for sincere expressions of the parodied views 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inky Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 (edited) -Eli ran from the show floor screaming "Its a SNES, holy shit its a SNES" Edited March 2, 2016 by Inky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inky Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 It's not a witch hunt nor a Spanish Inquisition. It's about accountability and hopefully their not repeating those mistakes in the future. However, nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition. FETCH...THE COMFY CHAIR! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillWorkForRice Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 (edited) Erm, yes. I was one of two recipients of the email which was a reply to one I had sent him the day before. While brief, it seemed to suggest one of two things, neither of which I was inclined to follow up on. (1) He was unaware the fake with the DVR card had been posted. (2) He knew it had been posted but was surprised it had been uncovered as a fake. Well, there we have it I guess. As long as MK didn't know about it's okay and he is in the clear. He didn't know about his own product. He didn't know about what's being posted on his product's Facebook page. He's unaware so he's in the clear. /sarcasm I believe for Mike that the worst case scenario right now for him is to break even on what he put into purchasing the injection mold tooling for the Jaguar shells and for whatever he may have put in for the Coleco brand name. I think he will fight tooth and nail and lie through his teeth to break even. He is a businessman now I don't think he is willing to take any loss and go into the red, even if it means insulting the entire retro gaming community. He's being pretty selfish about this. Edited March 2, 2016 by WillWorkForRice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike99mccarthy Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 No no, the lesson is "Don't say you have a prototype when you have NONE, especially not THREE FUXXING TIMES IN A ROW" I really want to hear the "mouthpiece". BTW I agree that Piko should not be guilty by association but the rest of their team: Steve Woita, Paul Wylie, Phil Adam, Ben Herman, Steven J. Rosenbaum are all guilty until proven innocent. I don't care if you are friend with one of them and they are "wonderful" people, their not addressing the issue at all is guilty. I don't even care what stance they would have taken: defend or come-out, either way it would have shown they are at least aware of what is going on and they either drink the kool-aid or they don't. Their silence makes me believe they are useless puppets. As such guilty of being useless. steve woita needs to come off that f*cking tengen police academy prototype Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cybermario Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 Sounds just like another MK hater to me. Just wait until it's revealed. What everyone here fails to realize is that Daniel Kayser and David Giltian SAW the working FPGA board. Did you ever think maybe the DVR was just a clever marketing smoke-screen? Like I said, just wait and see, this console is a movement. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
galax Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 I believe for Mike that the worst case scenario right now for him is to break even on what he put into purchasing the injection mold tooling for the Jaguar shells and for whatever he may have put in for the Coleco brand name. I've seen that assumption made a few times, but we don't know that there was any up-front payment made to Coleco. So far based on the reports we've heard from people involved, Mike expected everyone to work for a share of the profits later on (those that weren't transferred to one of the other Retro group companies, that is), so maybe Coleco too is on some sort of per-unit deal. I don't think Mike has poured vast financial resources into this. We don't know of anything that Mike actually paid for up-front except for the molds, heck maybe even the dental machine guy was given stock in the RVGS or per-unit payments. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retro Nick Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 Things are getting a bit tense, so here is a walrus meme for levity. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dj_convoy Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 Believe we should be careful and not turn this into a Spanish Inquisition Sound like Gamester81, Collectorvision, and Piko were all burnt in this mess Collectorvision and Gamester were both involved in aggressively white knighting this thing; that's largely why they are getting flak now. Both have apologized; it's up to all of us if that's good enough or not. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cybermario Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 Things are getting a bit tense, so here is a walrus meme for levity. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillWorkForRice Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 I've seen that assumption made a few times, but we don't know that there was any up-front payment made to Coleco. So far based on the reports we've heard from people involved, Mike expected everyone to work for a share of the profits later on (those that weren't transferred to one of the other Retro group companies, that is), so maybe Coleco too is on some sort of per-unit deal. I don't think Mike has poured vast financial resources into this. We don't know of anything that Mike actually paid for up-front except for the molds, heck maybe even the dental machine guy was given stock in the RVGS or per-unit payments. That is why I'm using the word "may". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamus Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 Still eagerly awaiting the John Carlsen interview by triverse. I guess his servers are still on fire. :-/ 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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