Coleco Chameleon .... hardware speculations?

[Pipercub]

And let me add, after I was soft fired from the project that is where my knowledge of Steve's role ends, I have no idea what he is or is not doing after that point.

[Newsdee]

Here's a Chameleon cartridge that isn't vaporware: http://wiki.icomp.de/wiki/Chameleon

 

If somebody figures out how to make them cheaper (sub $99) I can see these taking off; at that price it's quite a lot of flexibility even with just a VGA out. But I think more recent FPGAs of similar capacity to its Cyclone III are around the same price range (~$50 for one chip).

[Gentlegamer]

The thing that not a lot of people remember about old video game console setups is that, in the 1970s and early 1980s, the consoles were intended to be placed near where the player was sitting, not next to the TV. That's why they had super-long RF and power cables (that could be hidden under a rug or snaked around furniture, for example), but relatively short controller cables. If you stop and think about it, it makes perfect sense: having the console close to you makes it easier to swap out cartridges. Why put the console next to the TV? You'd only have to get mile-long controller extension cables, not to mention having to get up every time you want to change the game. Yet, that's the way that most collectors nowadays seem to set them up.

 

Anyway, having the Pause button on the console, as the SMS or Atari 7800 did, isn't so bad in that "classic" configuration, since the console would always be right next to you.

 

Or the player was expected to be sitting on the floor close to the TV with the console on the floor next to him.

 

That's definitely how I played Atari VCS when I was a child in the early 80s.

[galax]

No, I think he truly reverse engineered or helped to reverse engineer a playstation and made a small playstation. Maybe his time lines are a bit off. Why would anyone make up something like that? He doesn't really have any gain from saying he made a playstation clone in 2010. It isn't like he's telling us he designed the playstation 3.

You honestly believe that? According to John the reverse engineering was in the mid-'90s, and Sony came caling in 2010 to ask him to build the Playstation 1 for emerging markets, after he haf done basically nothing remotely related in the last 15 years (I don't count 7 months writing BluRay drive software for the PS3 in 2006).

 

The only answer I can think of as to why someone would come up with that lie is to pad their CV. It reminds me of kids at school who would say their dad was a spy etc. to get attention.

[Gentlegamer]

Lee could also be a troll, since just about everyone that knows Mike that posted of this thread said he know very little about technology and managing those types of projects

 

Plus no electrical engineer I know will work free on any project, especially when some electrical and computer engineers can make over 100,000 working for the government just starting

 

 

My bet its Stan Lee

 

EXCELSIOR!

[InnovaX5]

You honestly believe that? According to John the reverse engineering was in the mid-'90s, and Sony came caling in 2010 to ask him to build the Playstation 1 for emerging markets, after he haf done basically nothing remotely related in the last 15 years (I don't count 7 months writing BluRay drive software for the PS3 in 2006).

 

The only answer I can think of as to why someone would come up with that lie is to pad their CV. It reminds me of kids at school who would say their dad was a spy etc. to get attention.

No, I really don't think it was 2010. It would be ridiculous that Sony would even care about the PS1 market in the united states and uk since it was long since discontinued by then. I think he miss-spoke on the date of things. I really don't think he had any valid reason to bullshit anyone at this point. Carlsen has stuck to the same story this whole time, the only difference is he called it a 'small playstation' in the retro vgs days. I feel like if he wanted to embellish what he's done, he would come up with something a lot more creative than a small playstation.

 

Edit: further thinking, debunks my own refute. 2010 makes sense.

[galax]

Are we calling BS on the whole Carlsen interview tech content?

And I mean we believe little to nothing of what he said he had produced for the Retro VGS by the time he got earned a bus ticket.

I believe none of what John says about how far the hardware development had got. Did you see his face in the last video I linked to when he was asked a simple question about the RAM? Do you think Kevtris would be unable to remember how mich RAM is in a device that he is designing? Also earlier in that video he goes on about how precisely he measured the colours- give me a break, he's just implementing someone else's simple circuit.

 

 

Woita is more of a programmer than a game designer, and most of the post-Genesis games he worked on are either obscure or undistinguished at best.

'Undistinguished' is being kind- the flash stuff is like your second class of a Flash 101 course, why would anyone want that online as an example of their work?

[Gentlegamer]

Mr. Lie.

 

[galax]

No, I really don't think it was 2010. It would be ridiculous that Sony would even care about the PS1 market in the united states and uk since it was long since discontinued by then. I think he miss-spoke on the date of things. I really don't think he had any valid reason to bullshit anyone at this point. Carlsen has stuck to the same story this whole time, the only difference is he called it a 'small playstation' in the retro vgs days. I feel like if he wanted to embellish what he's done, he would come up with something a lot more creative than a small playstation.

John's Linkedin describes the same project as being in 2010, he stated in the interview that Sony wanted him because of his previous reverse engineering.

 

 

Yes it makes no sense, so you assume the dates are wrong? Why not conclude instead that he could be a bad liar? Did you notice when I showed earlier that he had turned himself into a co-founder of Iguana despite being a contractor there? His own CV contradicts his lies.

[rob_ocelot]

Not quite; that was more exaggeration by the RVGS spin machine. John Carlsen was a "Game Tester" at Mediagenic/Activision (where Steve worked at the time) for 8 months in 1990-91, he seemed to imply in the interview that Steve didn't remember him.

 

Why do I get the feeling that most of the credientials of the 'team' are just fluffed up peacock tails. Game testing is the about the lowest of the low jobs in the industry. The guy who gets the morning coffee and shines the exec's shoes with his tongue is higher up on the totem pole.

 

Just remember, seven years later this guy thought he could be calling the shots at Apple...

[enoofu]

Sony does care for the original PlayStation market its one reason for

PlayStation Now

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_Now

 

But also have the feeling he is lying about his position on the project if it existed

[phoenixdownita]

I proposed this idea in the other thread as the only way that I see for carts having a comeback. with the RPi Zero at $5 it seems viable to have these somewhere between $30 or $50, but a decent FPGA / ASIC would probably be cheaper.

 

...

Even better idea, shove the whole RPi Zero into the cart, have the "cart" connected directly via the HDMI connector to the TV, small USB charger cable to power it (a la ChromeCast, Amazon TV stick) or/and have an MHL version for TV sets that have it, the PiZero has a second USB (well the only USB, power does not count) that's where you connect joypad or USB dongles for BT etc.... yes in short a Google ChromeCast stick with a single game/combo and a single USB to connect the pad/BLE or whatever .... the damn ChromeCast is 35US$!!!!

 

As simple as that!!!!

[madman is gonna rip right thru this ]

[bretthorror]

Well you won't hear an unkind word about Steve from us, we know and like him thus far he has not been involved with any shennnanigans that we know of. If you listen to the indigogo era episode of RetroGaming Roundup you will hear Steve discussing some of how he came to be involved with the project; http://www.retrogamingroundup.com/shownotes/2015/roundup091_2015.09.php

 

In short Socal Mike and I had been talking about this console idea, the very early days of fleshing out how to turn the idea into a product, and Steve and I had also been discussing his interest in getting back into the type of game development that he treasured and doing things the way they were done when it was in his view, better. And I can't say I disagree. As I have said here several times when Socal Mike asked me if I thought it was a viable product, and how such a thing could or would be made I told him I would buy one but that I was not convinced the mass market was there. I mean if I could buy a new console that just played games, wasn't infested with Call of Duty kids, and pick from new games on carts designed by the guys from the golden era of gaming you bet I would. And yes I do like carts, they are durable survivors that you can pull out of an attic or closet decades later and no matter what companies have come and gone, servers taken off line, licenses expired, re-issued etc. etc. etc. the things will just work and nothing can reach into your collection and interfere with your games. But how many of "me" are there out there, I don't know as someone recently said here, if I am making the mistake of assuming everyone's desires are the same as mine so I lean toward there not being a big enough market. As I am talking with Steve about the notion of standing up a studio I said he should really talk with Socal Mike about this because Mike was looking to fire up a console. Steve was brought into that discussion and all of that and what came next is pretty well detailed on the episode I posted just now. So for Mike to say stuff like "Why would Scott think he was a part of this etc." is so damn insulting because I literally brought the initial team together and was a contributor, anyway listen and your questions should be touched on.

 

I'm at a loss as to why anyone would make a retro console to emulate old stuff we already have, essentially. Why not just start a homebrew company, acquire titles, develop your own and try to work your way up the ranks? It sounds more logical than making a console to play games that are already out there. I originally thought the system would be used to basically bring great indie Steam games to home consoles with physical releases, and I think doing that is the only way a system could be viable. If a system can't run those affordably, the console is dead in the water no matter how you look at it. Making a 16 bit platform when everyone owns at least two of them already just sounds like the stupidest idea in the world. I'm sure people would be fine with CD or flash releases if you got right down to it if he'd have taken the time to ask people what they'd like instead of riding the coat tails of those Jag molds. I'd like to think if you product is a good one and has legit interest, the actual molds should be the least of your worries. I know it's costly, but I really wish I knew if there was some sort of generic molds out there for use or just how much it'd cost to make one. The Vega+ IGG has its own shell and it isn't asking for millions.

 

Did it never occur to Mike or anyone on the team that they literally could have started a thread on a few popular forums and ask what people actually wanted and what they'd pay to get it? If he wanted to make a living in the gaming world, he didn't need to dictate the product. He should have done what a sane businessman would do and find out what people want and make that product. I don't know the guy, but I'm almost positive he just thought people would throw huge money at him and he'd then throw that money at others and his console would be made and he'd just have to sit back and profit without actually having done anything.

[Retro Nick]

 

I mean if I could buy a new console that just played games, wasn't infested with Call of Duty kids, and pick from new games on carts designed by the guys from the golden era of gaming you bet I would. And yes I do like carts, they are durable survivors that you can pull out of an attic or closet decades later and no matter what companies have come and gone, servers taken off line, licenses expired, re-issued etc. etc. etc. the things will just work and nothing can reach into your collection and interfere with your games. But how many of "me" are there out there, I don't know as someone recently said here, if I am making the mistake of assuming everyone's desires are the same as mine so I lean toward there not being a big enough market.

ME.

Outside of how horrible this has turned out, I still love the idea of a new system for all of the reasons you listed, and one of my friends was equally on board as well.

 

Having a console that also serves as a rally point for all of the smaller developers out there is an extremely romantic idea to me. Yacht Club, NG Dev, Piko, Collectorvision, Wayforward, Neobitz, Watermellon, and many others on the same system, for all of the reasons listed above? Yes please. But.......

 

It all only exsists in Retroland:(

Edited March 7, 2016 by Retro Nick

[InnovaX5]

John's Linkedin describes the same project as being in 2010, he stated in the interview rhat they wanted him because of his previous reverse engineering.

 

image.jpeg

 

Yes it makes no sense, so you assume the dates are wrong? Why not conclude instead that he could be a bad liar? Did you notice when I showed earlier that he had turned himself into a co-founder of Iguana despite being a contractor there? His own CV contradicts his lies.

I have not refute for that at all. I guess he fit right in with Mike Kennedy after all. So, that makes two out of three of the retro vgs team known liars. Sure hope that is just coincidence and unrelated to the current team of the Coleco Chameleon.

 

Edit: 2010 was the boom of PS1 re-sells for ps3 on PSN.

[PlaysWithWolves]

No, I really don't think it was 2010. It would be ridiculous that Sony would even care about the PS1 market in the united states and uk since it was long since discontinued by then. I think he miss-spoke on the date of things. I really don't think he had any valid reason to bullshit anyone at this point. Carlsen has stuck to the same story this whole time, the only difference is he called it a 'small playstation' in the retro vgs days. I feel like if he wanted to embellish what he's done, he would come up with something a lot more creative than a small playstation.

 

It wasn't for the USA or UK but rather intended for an emerging market in a BRIC nation. It may have been a handheld, but I think it was a system-inside-the-controller that just needed to be hooked up to the TV.

 

He briefly talked about it at about 0:10:15 here:

 

[InnovaX5]

 

It wasn't for the USA or UK but rather an emerging market in a BRIC nation. It may have been a handheld, but I think it was a system-inside-the-controller that just needed to be hooked up to the TV.

I take it back. It makes sense. Sony likes selling shit on PSN. Yeah, it would effect the current markets.

[Pipercub]

 

I'm at a loss as to why anyone would make a retro console to emulate old stuff we already have, essentially. Why not just start a homebrew company, acquire titles, develop your own and try to work your way up the ranks? It sounds more logical than making a console to play games that are already out there

 

Why, because I would buy one and if there are enough I's out there then it works, that said even though I would buy one, and I didn't care if it was as much as a PS4, I didn't think there were enough like me. Allow me to repeat myself: "I mean if I could buy a new console that just played games, wasn't infested with Call of Duty kids, and pick from new games on carts designed by the guys from the golden era of gaming you bet I would. And yes I do like carts, they are durable survivors that you can pull out of an attic or closet decades later and no matter what companies have come and gone, servers taken off line, licenses expired, re-issued etc. etc. etc. the things will just work and nothing can reach into your collection and interfere with your games. But how many of "me" are there out there, I don't know as someone recently said here, if I am making the mistake of assuming everyone's desires are the same as mine so I lean toward there not being a big enough market."

 

Did it never occur to Mike or anyone on the team that they literally could have started a thread on a few popular forums and ask what people actually wanted and what they'd pay to get it? If he wanted to make a living in the gaming world, he didn't need to dictate the product.

Not that I know of, once the idea was formed it was formed with the conclusion that it was viable. The idea was make a new console that would play NEW games on a pre-online cart based platform, and again I questioned the market but thought the idea could result in a product I would like to buy. Much like those of us who have made our own games, like when we did CGE Adventures, to hold that game in your hand all packaged up and realize that you made what you wished you could own. I believed in Mike's idea because I looked forward to the prospect of holding that box with our console in it and a stack of new games by the godfathers of this industry. And Mike never once mentioned money, I think he really had the same sense of magic that I did of creating something that had someone else done it we would have lined up to buy it, but pragmatically it would have likely been a short line. As much as people in this story are often quoted saying "I'm not a hardware guy" I would like to say I am not a business guy. A good friend of mine opened a hardware store in my town, it is a small town with two larger towns 10 min in either direction where Lowes and Home Depot have larger selections at lower prices. If you asked me if a hardware store was a good idea in this town I would have said never ever ever would it work, 5 years later they are a thriving business. For me it was a pure technical question of could we build it not should be build it. I am glad I was out before regrettably, nothing was more important than making that product and everyone and everything was disposable to that goal.

[Newsdee]

Even better idea, shove the whole RPi Zero into the cart (...) As simple as that!!!!

[madman is gonna rip right thru this ]

You might want it to make it more generic but yeah that's the rough idea. When an entire new SoC costs $5 and has enough power to play anything 2D (and maybe some 3D of old) it's hard to justify big prices for carts beyond paying for parts and artwork.

[enoofu]

Yea, I know. He said that in Triverse's interview recently too. The timeline still makes no sense as to why sony would pull the plug due to fear that it would over take their established markets (ie, us, canada, etc) the ps1 was long gone by 2010 from Sony's production. Who were they afraid they'd upset at that point, gamestop? I don't buy that.

 

I was under the assumption that he made his small playstation while psone units / games were being sold here in the USA / Japan still and that Sony killed the project out of fear the unit would over throw the market they had already in the USA / Japan.

 

Timeline make sense since Sony was developing consoles for BRIC

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/mediatechnologyandtelecoms/2792353/Sony-growth-push-targets-emerging-markets.html

 

Apparently they dumped it around 2011-2012 for Playstation Now network which currently is focused on PS3

[InnovaX5]

Eh, on further thought. Carlsen prolly is telling the truth. PSN sales would get screwed up from a playstation one in a controller that could be hacked or have usb / sd card shoved into it with more games. They would have had to do something like the Nintendo IQ for it to work and that would have cost sony more money than it was worth, thus killing the project off.

 

So, if Carlsen is telling us the truth and his CV checks out...

[enoofu]

Pretty sure he is telling the truth on the project, as the main problem was a Console ban in China at that time

 

Also the reason iQue player was developed by nintendo

[InnovaX5]

Pretty sure he is telling the truth on the project, as the main problem was a Console ban in China at that time

 

Also the reason iQue player was developed by nintendo

Yep. PS3 just started churning out ps1 titles to the PSN at this time. It would have cost sony so much more to put out a kiosk system for an all-in one ps1 which would have been loaded up with games they were already selling again on PSN. They would have killed the project off fast at the thought of people importing these cheap playstation one units and loading them up with roms.

 

Not that pirates for PS1 don't exist, mind you. You can run ps1 emulators pretty spot on on all the Chinese handheld devices and emulators already. Just, why add to the problem by amplifying it to a plug and play that is just an ebay / amazon click away to the rest of the world that isn't a developing market.

[galax]

OK so assuming Sony that was developing a Playstation Plug'n'play in 2010, do you really think they would have used 15 year old Playstation 1 technology, and that they would have picked John Carlsen out of obscurity as the man to design it?

 

Reading his CV, he's like Forrest Gump, showing up all over the place whenever anything gets invented:

 

https://www.linkedin.com/in/johncarlsen

 

Demonstrated leadership developing hardware and software into profitable products, frequently delivering personal ROI exceeding 10:1

• Only hardware engineer in Sony's American PlayStation division, and principal hardware developer of a PlayStation platform for emerging nation markets

• Principal developer of railway industry’s leading high-speed deposition system, which precisely drops up to 500 kilotons of rock ballast and returns track segments to revenue generation >10 times faster than traditional manual method while increasing worker safety

• Simplified user interface and lowered BOM cost of portable audio (MP3) players by reducing number of push button switches from about 12 to 5 [what the freaking hell does that mean!?] and introducing new IC, leading to >70% market share in early EEPROM-based players, including first Apple iPod Shuffle

• Co-founded and enabled core business, bootstrapping, and sale within four years for $25MM of video game developer Iguana Entertainment by reducing costs of cross-platform software development systems by 96%

• Contributed to development of first TV cards for PCs, first mixer-enabled PC sound cards, first AMD 64-bit PCs, autonomous robots, and many video and computer games

Edit: sorry to interrupt the flow of memes and Youtube arguments with this stuff on John Carlsen's credibility; it seems plain to me that there is a lot of padding and outright lying in his CV, but if my previous posts don't convince you of it then no public information will, so we should probably move on

 

The same thing is being discussed over here: http://assemblergames.com/l/threads/there-was-going-to-be-a-plug-in-playstation.60328/

• "sounds like BS"
• "I sounds strange that they would invest in hardware emulation at that point."
• "Considering the guys other "credentials" it sounded like BS to try and convince people to buy into his supposed qualifications.
  I would think Sony would consult past engineers before contacting someone who may have reversed engineered a ps1 like 20 years ago"

[+madman]

OK so assuming Sony that was developing a Playstation Plug'n'play in 2010, do you really think they would have used 15 year old Playstation 1 technology, and that they would have picked John Carlsen out of obscurity as the man to design it?

This is the part of his story that I don't understand. I get a 3rd party, in the 90's, being interested in his reverse engineering work. But why would Sony, who designed the Playstation, want to hire someone with RE experience instead of using their own IP that they used to design the Playstation? I'm not calling him out as a liar, it just doesn't make sense to me.