leods Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 (edited) wouldn't it be more fair to damn the people behind The 64 if things go wrong rather than assuming from day one that it's vapourware, some kind of con or whatever? No. If things "go wrong", the money is gone and then it's too late. The fact is, they are asking you to donate them money to do a product they didin't descript further than: It looks like a commodore 64, and it plays commodore 64 programs. That is very little. No mention of how it does it, how accurate it is, what kind of technology is being implemented, what kind of quality is to be expected. That is a problem and a failure in itself. But if people want to donate to it anyway even though the only thing they are offering is a keyboard shell that looks like a C64 fine. Doesn't change the flaws being pointed. Have they answered the direct questions asked yet? You know, they said ASAP. What does that mean? They can't answer basic design questions in a couple days? Why not? Edit: Oh look at that. They just posted the specs! " Technical Specifications The specifications for THE 64 ™ are not fixed at this point in time - we will be engaging with the community and customers over the coming months to deliver the best product we can! We want to hear from you guys what you want us to add! Specifications that are fixed are: Accurate recreation of the classic Commodore 64. HDMI video and audio output. We are considering composite video in addition to HDMI, for use on classic televisions. Multiple SIDs for stereo sound (6581 or 8580) New high-capacity (512MB+) writable cartridge support, with an adapter interface available later to provide classic cartridge compatibility. Support for current storage media (for example SD cards), with emulation of the 1541. Multiple joystick support for multi-player games. Support for many of the popular emulator game file formats. Firmware upgradable to support additional features and machines in the future (DTV64 features, etc.) Hopefully the possibility to connect original peripherals. " What a load of BS. If you have read this thread and you still want to donate money to this just go for it man. I would gladly give you My Paypal account too, since you have too much money and don't know what to do with it. Edited April 17, 2016 by leods 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raticon Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 Well, if they had more or less clear specs and reasonably instant answers to questions, I would be far more assured than the "ASAP" business that has dominated the first few days. Buying yourself time in order to come up with an answer, or hope that the party asking questions will forget they did, doesn't seem too promising in my book. Quoted for truth. These guys seem like they think they have a thing going but in reality all they have for now is a shell, some renders and a license. It seems a bit familiar... I am a C64 fan myself and i have had much fun with my C64C and SD2IEC combo for some time now. Even went out and got me one of those new microswitched Competition Pro joysticks. Great stuff. I have a hard time seeing a real market for this thing as there is plenty of C64s still around for reasonable prices, and SD2IEC is cheap and easy not to mention emulators for both PC and Android devices. Now that some of the specs have been revealed it is evident that there is no final prototype ready at all, as they want community input to make it happen... Also the talk about cartridge adapters and "hopefully possibility to connect original peripherals" is a warning flag for me and reminds me all too well of Mr. Kennedys little venture. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted April 17, 2016 Author Share Posted April 17, 2016 What a load of BS. If you have read this thread and you still want to donate money to this just go for it man. I would gladly give you My Paypal account too, since you have too much money and don't know what to do with it. Indeed. And here's the link to their Facebook post on the specs: https://www.facebook.com/The64computer/posts/1535255703446332 There's no doubt now this is another Coleco Chameleon, i.e., give us the money and we'll figure it out along the way. That also explains the absurd December delivery date, i.e., they don't know what they're really doing. No thanks. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newsdee Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 (edited) "The specifications for THE 64 ™ are not fixed at this point in time - we will be engaging with the community and customers over the coming months to deliver the best product we can! We want to hear from you guys what you want us to add! Specifications that are fixed are (...)" Sigh... so basically this is nothing else than "we're bringing the C64 back at $150, who's interested" with massive potential for scope creep. It also bothers me that "the Team" is just one guy. I guess there is a niche for a toy with a bunch of games inside like the ZX Vega, but the price seems a bit stiff for that. Edited April 17, 2016 by Newsdee 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cimerians Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 Over the years I have gotten a new mold and a 1541 Ultimate II, best money I've spent to keep my original C64 going. Only thing I may be interested in is HDMI out but even then these games are so old that they IMO look fine with just about any modern day hook up. As Wongojack mentioned, I have no interest in "portable C64 gaming". Tons of games (text adventures, RPG's) required the keyboard so for me its just not anything I would want. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7800fan Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 Coleco Chameleon and C64 is apples and oranges. C64 already have established hardware design from 30 years ago, and being a simpler 8-bits design (compared to newer game machines) it'd be trivial to make it work today. Chameleon was going to be a completely new hardware and thus, nothing was set on the spec. I would like to have my PSP with C64 emulator but no keyboard addon was ever released and some game's a pain to run using software on screen keyboard. The best portable C64 would be something like DTV hacked into an old laptop like Chromebook or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjameslv Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 .... " Technical Specifications The specifications for THE 64 ™ are not fixed at this point in time - we will be engaging with the community and customers over the coming months to deliver the best product we can! We want to hear from you guys what you want us to add! Specifications that are fixed are: Accurate recreation of the classic Commodore 64. HDMI video and audio output. We are considering composite video in addition to HDMI, for use on classic televisions. Multiple SIDs for stereo sound (6581 or 8580) New high-capacity (512MB+) writable cartridge support, with an adapter interface available later to provide classic cartridge compatibility. Support for current storage media (for example SD cards), with emulation of the 1541. Multiple joystick support for multi-player games. Support for many of the popular emulator game file formats. Firmware upgradable to support additional features and machines in the future (DTV64 features, etc.) Hopefully the possibility to connect original peripherals. .... So their "specs" are just guesses and ideas and hopes...might as well add unicorns to the mix to even it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leods Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 So their "specs" are just guesses and ideas and hopes...might as well add unicorns to the mix to even it out. They're asking for suggestions, so if enough people ask for it, they'd totally put unicorns in there, 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlsson Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 In the best of worlds, perhaps they're vague about what they are doing in order to prevent anyone else from stealing their concepts and work, and will get more specific at a later point. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenixdownita Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 Let me get this straight: Specifications that are fixed are: Accurate recreation of the classic Commodore 64. HDMI video and audio output. We are considering composite video in addition to HDMI, for use on classic televisions. Multiple SIDs for stereo sound (6581 or 8580) New high-capacity (512MB+) writable cartridge support, with an adapter interface available later to provide classic cartridge compatibility. Support for current storage media (for example SD cards), with emulation of the 1541. Multiple joystick support for multi-player games. Support for many of the popular emulator game file formats. Firmware upgradable to support additional features and machines in the future (DTV64 features, etc.) Hopefully the possibility to connect original peripherals. Is it just me or "fixed" and "considering"/"hopefully" don't go in the same sentence? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leods Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 Let me get this straight: Is it just me or "fixed" and "considering"/"hopefully" don't go in the same sentence? You also saw they'Re "in talks" with IP rights owners to bring games for this? Serously, they could change the name to "The Chameleon 64" I'm still appaled by the "official controllers". What's official about them? It's got the official "the 64" seal of not having anything to do with the commodore 64? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 Or anything from Commodore themselves. The way crowdfunding works encourages the developers to get ahead of themselves, especially when $$$ are involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 As far as a "flexible goal" vs. "inflexible goal" -- there's nothing to say they have to deliver a product. No guarantees. And if an inflexible goal misses its target by $50 on a $10,000 campaign, that shouldn't affect the outcome at all. Development and production should continue just fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenixdownita Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 ... And if an inflexible goal misses its target by $50 on a $10,000 campaign, that shouldn't affect the outcome at all. Development and production should continue just fine. I don't think this scenario exists ... any project likely has a contingent backer registered to cough up the last nibble in case that's all that is left to do. Sure anyone has a friend that can spot him with 100-1000US$ in case of needs .... right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 I don't know. Do they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenixdownita Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 I don't know. Do they? It is a sad day if you are crowdfunding a project and you don't have a single friend/relative that can make up the small difference at the end of the campaign to get the project going. But we're digressing here .... and TC64 was taken so we cannot call it The Chameleon 64 as it will bring a bad name to a good project (Turbo Chameleon 64). Given I have no interest whatsoever in a replica of a C64 I really don't have much to add to this discussion, sorry I just wanted to chime in. The telling bit is that the exec all stepped down .... something really bad happened and this one guy seems just out to prove he can do it alone .... as if. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+wongojack Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 If you want a portable, you can probably get one of these: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/249607-a-pocket-size-windows-laptop/page-1 Looks much more likely to happen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted April 18, 2016 Author Share Posted April 18, 2016 I almost forgot about the MEGA65 project, which is something much farther along and far more interesting in many ways: http://mega65.org/ It will especially be nice for those of us who always wanted a C-65, but won't be able to shell out for one of the few in existence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raticon Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 Then there is this guy worling on a portable C64. He's selling some cool stuff for older computers and have been working on a C64 laptop based on a C64 DTV and some gutted netbooks for some time now: http://www.thefuturewas8bit.com/index.php/c64p The idea is that it will include the SD2IEC he's selling too, for memory cards. All real development and assembly pictures too, instead of a bunch of renders. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danny_galaga Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 Over the years I have gotten a new mold and a 1541 Ultimate II, best money I've spent to keep my original C64 going. Only thing I may be interested in is HDMI out but even then these games are so old that they IMO look fine with just about any modern day hook up. As Wongojack mentioned, I have no interest in "portable C64 gaming". Tons of games (text adventures, RPG's) required the keyboard so for me its just not anything I would want. Besides, you can get C64 emulators for portable devices anyway. So the only selling point would be a custom looking case I suppose. Not even with C64 on it because of copyright. When I feel the need for portable, C64 runs just fine on my GP2X (",) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 I put WinVICE on one of my laptops and taped a C-64 logo on it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted April 19, 2016 Author Share Posted April 19, 2016 Good news, our concerns have been answered. There's now a render of the box The 64 will ship in, as well as a mock-up of the off-the-shelf controller they're going to put their logo on: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-64-computer-and-handheld-console#/ 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raticon Posted April 19, 2016 Share Posted April 19, 2016 Good news, our concerns have been answered. There's now a render of the box The 64 will ship in, as well as a mock-up of the off-the-shelf controller they're going to put their logo on: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-64-computer-and-handheld-console#/ So they basically took the "Competition Pro"-joystick currently sold by Speedlink (or a chinese no-name cheapo equivalent), with the triangular top buttons omitted and the rubber bend-protector on the cable removed and stamped their logo on it? (I own the 9-pin microswitched version and it is wonderful to use, btw.) I have a very hard time actually believing these guys are serious now, given that they are following in the RVGS footsteps almost to perfect detail. It might as well be an elaborate act of performance-art or something. I seriously hope these guys will get their act together quickly because this is looking silly right now. Yeah i get that someone out to crowdfund their hardware want to build hype, turn the attention of the press their way, get some cool renders out, talk up the specs and so on but right now is not a perfect time for projects that have a plastic case for their hardware done before the actual hardware, renders of the product before actual photos and Ebay controllers stamped with logos on them out to crowdfunding. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almightytodd Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 I will just sit on the sidelines and watch... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jess Ragan Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 In Swedish we have a proverb that goes "never sell the hide before the bear is shot". Do you have that one or a similar one in English too? "Don't count your chickens before they're hatched" is the standard in America. But your point remains valid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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