Has Yoomp! been ported yet?

[+pboland]

Speaking from a non technical side of things. The best bet for wide acceptance in the 5200 community (or any classic video game community) is an add-on that requires no soldering and doesn't require the end used to take apart his console in any significant way.

 

Look I get it from the technical point of view. Just open up the console and a handful of solder joints maybe disconnect a small thing here or there and we can have something so much more powerful than a simple plug in expansion. Yes I'm sure this is true, but there are many more users out there that don't feel comfortable doing those things and they are not willing to pay a fee and shipping costs to have someone else do the work.

 

Don't shoot for the sky with the add-on and make it simple stupid to attach to the 5200 and you will have a huge hit on your hands.

 

That's just my two cents.

[CPUWIZ]

Don't shoot for the sky with the add-on and make it simple stupid to attach to the 5200 and you will have a huge hit on your hands.

 

That's just my two cents.

 

The point is, you can't.

[Lynxpro]

Atari had this giant cartridge format and couldn't be bothered to include a couple extra control lines- especially after all the workarounds needed to expand the capabilities of 2600 cartridges. It absolutely boggles the mind.

 

So true. But I wouldn't call it *giant* because then it sounds like a criticism like some of those know-nothing whiners on YouTube moaning about "how stupid Atari was" to make cartridges so large. Personally, I think it's a perfect size. It helps with removing the carts easily. But yes, they should've added the lines to the cartridge port to make it more useful. Knowing Warner it was a cost issue; same with the issue of making the Atari 8-bit cartridge slot compatible with the 2600 according to Joe Decuir's posts over on Facebook.

 

Had they used the added lines, they could've certainly packed the carts to the max with RAM, ROM, graphics and sound chips, coprocessors, etc. and then we would't be thinking of how to get around their short-sighted limitations.

[Lynxpro]

CPUWIZ, first they need to realize that there is no EXTRAM signal what let to take control over address bus and on Expansion Port there is no CI signals, so console will stay on standby without cart plugged into cart slot. Like i wrote before is possible to use XL/XE mods but those mods need to be installed inside. Extension Port was designed only for Serial communication purpose and is possible to connect there SIO2SD for an example ....

 

 

... 16kB of RAM is enough for Yoomp, the code need only be reorganized to have static data in ROM and dynamic in RAM

 

Unless one is using an SIO2SD type device, why would you have the 5200 on without a cartridge inserted? Personally, I just want SIO for networked gaming so MIDI Maze could be played on the 5200.

 

And I'm not sure I buy into the argument that the 5200's expansion port was designed for limited purposes if Curt is correct that Atari Inc did intend for a RAM upgrade, a sound upgrade, possible SIO, a keyboard, and for use connecting the MB Voice Commander up to the 5200. It's certainly not limited like the 7800's Expansion Port to be used solely to control a VideoDisc/LaserDisc player.

[CPUWIZ]

Study the signals on the port and do the math yourself.

[Lynxpro]

Look at what address lines you have on the expansion port and then do the math on paper about how much you can do with it.

 

Math was never my friend. How much? Or should that be rephrased to how little?

 

 

Going for the Klax*, up in here, up in here.

 

 

 

 

*Holy shitake mushrooms, Atari Games' arcade Klax was originally written in AmigaBasic and then converted to C.

Edited May 29, 2016 by Lynxpro

[Bryan]

So true. But I wouldn't call it *giant* because then it sounds like a criticism like some of those know-nothing whiners on YouTube moaning about "how stupid Atari was" to make cartridges so large.

Obviously, bigger was the objective and that's fine. I'm just saying there was plenty of room for a few more signals (especially when there were something like 7 or 8 ground pins).

[Bryan]

 

Math was never my friend. How much? Or should that be rephrased to how little?

 

 

Going for the Klax, up in here, up in here.

 

The expansion connector is intended to allow 256 addresses (probably for attaching something like a speech module).

 

The way to add RAM is going to be something like SARA where you have read and write ranges in the cartridge.

[Lynxpro]

Obviously, bigger was the objective and that's fine. I'm just saying there was plenty of room for a few more signals (especially when there were something like 7 or 8 ground pins).

 

Unfortunately, it's yet another blunder to be listed in the Atari Inc/Corp Almanac of Blunders. Or Encyclopaedia.

 

Speaking of blunders, I was just thinking during my bumper-to-bumper commute the other day whether a modern run of the 5200 joystick flex circuit would actually work. If so, it would seem likely to be cheaper than messing around with Best Electronics' gold contact kits. Laptop keyboards use flex circuits and someone else said the NES gamepads use flex circuits and even though those bastage controllers are now 30 years old, they generally still work.

[Bryan]

 

Unfortunately, it's yet another blunder to be listed in the Atari Inc/Corp Almanac of Blunders. Or Encyclopaedia.

 

Speaking of blunders, I was just thinking during my bumper-to-bumper commute the other day whether a modern run of the 5200 joystick flex circuit would actually work. If so, it would seem likely to be cheaper than messing around with Best Electronics' gold contact kits. Laptop keyboards use flex circuits and someone else said the NES gamepads use flex circuits and even though those bastage controllers are now 30 years old, they generally still work.

That's probably a good idea. They're easy to have made and it seems like modern ones are designed to take more abuse without breaking. The alternative is 4 sub-boards glued in place with wires soldered between them.

[Lynxpro]

 

The expansion connector is intended to allow 256 addresses (probably for attaching something like a speech module).

 

The way to add RAM is going to be something like SARA where you have read and write ranges in the cartridge.

 

I'm guessing 256 addresses is weak-sauce when it comes to RAM expansion. Lemme guess…8K?

 

You mentioned a Speech Module. The Milton Bradley Voice Commander was supposed to connect to the 5200 via the Expansion Port.

 

However, Curt said other sound chips were doable, as well as a Keyboard, possibly SIO, and RAM. Then again, if Atari Inc/GCC were able to get SIO to work on the 7800 Keyboard using a PIC and discrete logic while connected to the 7800's DB9 Joystick Port #2, then maybe it wouldn't be so hard on the 5200 Expansion Port. Curt's Atari Museum page doesn't mention anything about the 7800 Keyboard using a PIA although the XM will require one to use SIO.

 

As for the SARA analogy to do cart-based RAM and processing in the cart while lacking the lines in the cartridge slot connector port, I'm going to assume that's how the AtariMax SD Cart Adapter works with it's ARM - or is it MIPS? - CPU and internal RAM. That would mean re-writing the A8 titles to get them to work versus remapping the memory addresses. Ugh.

[CPUWIZ]

Not 8K, 256 bytes.

[Lynxpro]

Not 8K, 256 bytes.

 

1 byte per address? Phuk. But hey, with a glass half-full outlook, that's twice the memory of the 2600.

 

 

 

 

 

Muttering to myself, Crom-damned 5200 engineers*!

 

*Excluding Dan Kramer and Jerry Jessop, of course.

Edited May 29, 2016 by Lynxpro

[kogden]

Bankswitched cart is probably the way to go for a 5200 RAM/ROM expansion. If necessary, you could tap the R/W line from expansion port with a cable.

 

The AtariMax Ultimate SD Cart has plenty of SRAM onboard. Awful expensive though. For that price you could get an 800XL and an SIO2PC. Maybe even SIO2SD. That would probably be the easiest target for a Yoomp port though.

 

Might not be needed.... someone should talk to the Yoomp developers. I'm not sure how their cart release worked for the XL and how much RAM was used for game engine and how much was just data that could be stuffed in ROM. I know it won't run on my 48K 400 or 800. I think even the cart release copied a lot into RAM. Probably not trivial to port by any means.