Blank floppies?

[nd2003grad]

Can anyone tell me if there is a specific format for C64 blank floppies? For example, this is the description of something I'm interested in (following). However, I'm aware of side/density/size things being an issue, does anyone know? Thanks! If you know about A8 too

that's a bonus:

 

 

10-packs of NEW 5.25" DSDD Fuji disks. Color coded. Unformatted. Ideal for early IBM compatible systems (up to 360k), Commodore 64, 128, Atari 8-bit, Apple 2 and other computers.

[+OLD CS1]

You can use DSDD with 1571s as double-sided disks (1571 native, 1328 blocks,) or as 1541 "flippies" with 664 blocks per side with an extra notch on the disk. You can also use SSDD as 1541 one-sided disks. There was a lot of conjecture about single-sided disks being usable for blah-blah reason as double-sided, but at this point there is really no reason not to get DS disks.

 

No 5.25" disks are being produced today so anything you get will be "new old stock" or used/recycled. YMMV. I bought two packs of unbranded colored disks and put them into sealed storage on my shelf right away. A year later I went to use them and found mold growing on them.

[nd2003grad]

Thanks! Can you reformat/erase old floppies for this system?

[+OLD CS1]

Thanks! Can you reformat/erase old floppies for this system?

 

Yes.

[Arnuphis]

I bought a bunch of 3M DSDD branded floppies off Amazon of all places a year or so back. They work fine on my TI and C64. Thankfully they have no mold growing on them either!

[7800fan]

Just a heads up, avoid using HD version. The 1.2MB floppy disk has different structure and will do poorly when formatted as DD.

[nd2003grad]

Thanks, all! I think I'm ready to go.

[carlsson]

To reuse preformatted disks, you might want to get a bulk eraser. At least I used to have lots of trouble with both 5.25" and later 3.5" disks once formatted on an IBM PC compatible, to later be reused on a 1541 or Amiga. The media was of the right kind (DD 360K respective DD 720K) so not a case of using HD media by mistake. Identical disks from the same pack, but that only were used on Commodore computers, yielded nearly zero read and write errors compared to the reused ones.

 

I know YMMV but I've always chalked it down to differences between MFM and GCR encoding, and that a regular format would not be enough to clear the magnetic tracks.

 

But yes, the DSDD ones are the right kind for Commodore, Atari, Apple and every other brand. Sometimes you see 96 tpi DSDD, also known as QD. They work as well, but are certified to be able to hold more tracks. Some systems format up to 80 tracks for which these are useful. Supposedly a majority of the 48 tpi disks produced in the late 1980's actually were certified for 96 tpi but since so few customers required the latter and to avoid confusion, those disks were sold as 48 tpi. Notice that the 1.2 MB HD didks almost exclusively made for PC's, have a different coercivity on the magnetic layer and can not be used on a system expecting DD/QD media.

[BassGuitari]

No 5.25" disks are being produced today so anything you get will be "new old stock" or used/recycled.

http://www.athana.com/html/diskette.html

[carlsson]

At least the 8" ones they sell are old stock, because they no longer have the machinery to make such floppy disks. I seem to recall that some variation of the 5.25" ones also belong there. Given the website was made in 1997, I suppose any floppy disks they manufactured back then "only" are 10-15 years newer than otherwise old stock. They might have the machinery to start a new batch whenever required though.

[+OLD CS1]

http://www.athana.com/html/diskette.html

 

Per the company, these are NOS.

[BassGuitari]

 

Per the company, these are NOS.

Ah, didn't catch that.

[+OLD CS1]

Ah, didn't catch that.

 

It would be neat to have new ones produced, though. I wonder if a Kickstarter or GoGundMe to produce a run of 5.25" floppies would take off

[Arnuphis]

Since the retro scene is booming there will be some demand. However, with the arrival of all the SD-based drive options I wonder if it is on the wane. There are still plenty of drives out there still chugging away and it would be nice for their lifespans to be extended with a source of new 5.25" media. It's just a case of cost vs demand. Couldn't hurt to poll for interest before starting a Kickstarter/GoFund campaign.

[+OLD CS1]

Since the retro scene is booming there will be some demand. However, with the arrival of all the SD-based drive options I wonder if it is on the wane. There are still plenty of drives out there still chugging away and it would be nice for their lifespans to be extended with a source of new 5.25" media. It's just a case of cost vs demand. Couldn't hurt to poll for interest before starting a Kickstarter/GoFund campaign.

 

I was thinking in rhetoric, but I bet you are correct about the advent of the floppy emulators. I prefer to work with the real thing, and I suspect that an informal survey would find me in only about a 10% arena of the full retro scene.

 

I do not own a floppy emulator, but I use products like SCSI2SD as hard drive replacements -- one 256MB in my TI, a 1GB in my CMD HD (Commodore,) and one 4GB in my Amiga 2000. In my mind, floppies are not "mass media." I actually enjoy having the bulky things around and using them, both 5.25" and 3.5" (oh, and a couple of 8" which I do not actively use but are still readable and hold my System/34 "libraries" from high school.)

[carlsson]

You might want to kickstart a project to make or refurbish floppy drives too. They wear out, and I'm not sure how easily they can be restored with available parts.

 

I'm sure there are plenty of NOS floppy disks, but perhaps they'd need a "magnetic bath" to restore full reliability?

[iKarith]

Interesting thing about SSDD 5.25 disks: There's coating on both sides, just like on DSDD disks. Reason is that different manufacturers had heads on the top or bottom of the disk, so they kinda had to make them that way. These can be used as flippy disks as well, and back in the day everyone did so. I've not heard that these disks failed sooner than DSDD disks when you do so, but I suppose it's possible that they might.

[+OLD CS1]

Interesting thing about SSDD 5.25 disks: There's coating on both sides, just like on DSDD disks. Reason is that different manufacturers had heads on the top or bottom of the disk, so they kinda had to make them that way. These can be used as flippy disks as well, and back in the day everyone did so. I've not heard that these disks failed sooner than DSDD disks when you do so, but I suppose it's possible that they might.

 

I am pretty certain this is one of those myths. So far as I have seen and been able to find, all single sided drives have the head on the bottom.

[carlsson]

I've got a few SKC SSDD. While they indeed work as flippies, I got an increased number of read/write errors on the back side that is not supposed to be coated, compared to other disks, SKC and other brands of the same age. The disk surface also looks slightly different? It could be so that disks not certified to work on both sides, were sold as single sided with the better coated side preinstalled as the surface to use.