Nintendo Classic Mini announced

[Tanooki]

LOL! Nintendo now claims an SNES Mini will be available by Christmas:

 

http://www.ign.com/articles/2017/04/19/nintendo-will-reportedly-release-snes-classic-edition-this-year

 

No thanks Big N. After the way you botched the NES Mini, won't be fooled again. Getting fucked about like that, trying to track one down, standing in lines before stores open - I won't be your time-wasting pigeon.

No they didn't, you're just re-quoting what they're ripping off from eurogamer.

 

It's all just lies and speculation at this point. Read clearly what that source said, they said 'unnamed sources' the classic line used by bullshit artists in politics, business, and elsewhere to either stir the pot, or leak info without getting hopefully fired.

 

At this rate that Eurogamer article is garbage, and what it really stands for is no better than the loser on a site with a comment section rushing to the bottom to try and type in 'FIRST' and hit submit before someone else writes something. That's what this is, throwing garbage at the wall hoping it sticks so they claim they got the scoop, or when it doesn't so much garbage comes out in a daily cycle they'll just hope no one remembers.

 

 

 

And also again, maybe a mistranslation? But Nintendo of America said and this is a quote: "Throughout April, NOA territories will receive the last shipments of Nintendo Entertainment System: NES Classic Edition systems for this year," Unless they're being coy that clearly states that it's shut down effectively for now, ie: this year. Their year ended when March did, when they did shut down the lines, but it leaves it open for their next fiscal year which is now through next March to do more if they choose to. It's either paused or discontinued outright but they left the door open.

[godslabrat]

Their year ended when March did, when they did shut down the lines, but it leaves it open for their next fiscal year which is now through next March to do more if they choose to. It's either paused or discontinued outright but they left the door open.

 

 

We're overlooking the most obvious interpretation: that Nintendo is going to make their decision to produce more Classics based on how well the Switch sells.

[+save2600]

Exactly - and if they're somehow, someway only making "peanuts", then they're doing something fatally wrong in this day and age.

 

Nintendo: with the highest priced PnP on the market, with the fewest games and we're to believe they're not making any money?! Just look at the AtGames Flashback Atari, Sega, ColecoVision, Intellivision offerings. All of them are less expensive and offer a lot more games. And some with 3rd party titles even, that have to be eating away at the margin.

[Atariboy]

While I don't think much of Eurogamer from a personal standpoint since they try too hard to shoehorn stuff like politics into this hobby, they're usually pretty good at reporting news stories (And I enjoy their frame rate analysis videos on Digital Foundry). I don't think they'd ever post this if they weren't confident of their sources.

 

It might not happen, but I'm reasonably confident that it's the current gameplan if they're saying that it is.

[Tanooki]

If it's true, NIntendo probably learned their lesson on the supply to ramp up for because they won't get away with pissing off their base who would buy such a device like the NES CE (and SNES CE) twice. That classic old fool me once, shame on me, foll me twice shame on you quote would be perfect. If they under supply imagine less people will put the effort in, scalpers will ask far more knowing it's a limited months cut of product, and the anger will go from steaming to a full blown blow over of rage directed at Nintendo.

 

There's no way they didn't make probably $10-20 a unit on these things easy after all licensing, expenses, R&D, and retailer cut or they wouldn't have bothered or sold it for more. They're not idiots and know well the NES sells like crack to a lot of people so they'd pay. I don't buy them calling it a day because they broke even or barely better as it's bad business sense.

[Keatah]

I want a PnP Apple II. kthxbye

[Flojomojo]

I want a PnP Apple II. kthxbye

 

 

 

This is easy ... use https://github.com/retropie/retropie-setup/wiki/Apple-II

 

I'd set it all up for you and send you the "pie in the freezer" disk image or a pre-configured memory card if:

 

a. you provided a list of software you wanted (knowing that it would be an artificially small subset of what's possible) and

b. weren't capable of doing this yourself

 

What would be your top 30 Apple // games for such a thing? I would choose ...

 

Oregon Trail

Prince of Persia

Choplifter

Spare Change

Drol

Castle Wolfenstein

Beyond Castle Wolfenstein

Autoduel

Battle Chess

One on One: Dr. J vs Larry Bird

Impossible Mission

Captain Midnight

Lode Runner

Karateka

Archon

 

Oh screw it, here's a list of "20 games that defined the Apple II." Just add 10 more to this.

 

P.S. Derailing this stupid thread feels so good.

[Keatah]

Hah, yes it *IS* fun. Thanks for the offer I can set up R-Pi all by myself. I'm a big boy! I would have to include Star Blazer in that list. Along with Pinball Construction Set, A2-FS1, some of the Bill Budge stuff.

 

There are so many defining games I don't think you can limit it to just 20 or 30. Maybe 100. And lists like this are highly personal. Depends what you like, depends what you experienced back in the day.

[Torr]

I just had a thought.

 

The third party titles on the NES mini... did Nintendo just pay a flat fee to put those games on, or do the third parties get a cut of sales?

 

If they get a cut of sales, you think they'd be equally peeved about Nintendo's lack of production.

If Nintendo paid a flat fee, they were most likely only allowed to produce a determined number. Nintendo expected that number to last them all year, but it sold out in NO time...

 

VERY hypothetical: When third parties realized how hot this was, they probably wanted a larger cut of profit when dealing over the licenses for the games for another print run.

Nintendo don't play dat. Said fuck 'em (Like Stallone in Rambo III) and started focus on the SNES mini.

 

And yeah yeah, people can say whatever when they're desperate, but if Nintendo kept manufacturing them without those third party games, you'd be be bitching... this thread would still be going just for different reasons.

Edited April 19, 2017 by Torr

[godslabrat]

I'm not an expert in these matters, but I would imagine if Nintendo negotiated a flat fee, there would have been some conditions for a future run. With all those lawyers at play, someone would have accounted for the possibility.

[Torr]

The more I think of the Third Parties, both on the NES mini and otherwise, the more I think, if they see this debacle the way us consumers do it's just more bad PR between Nintendo and third parties.

 

Us consumers want to put money in Konami and Capcom and whomever else's pocket, but Nintendo is not letting us. AND we're are loudly protesting it.

 

I know I'd be iffy about supporting such a company when two other cash cows are standing on deck.

[Tanooki]

Yeah as it's a closed box it would have been a flat rate with options. The VC would be the opposite because each copy sold Nintendo gets a cut, then the developer/publisher gets much of the rest. I'd think it would just be a package deal much like an old cartridge sale on a licensed game

 

(Making this up) if a game sold for $50, the boards/chips/plastic involved and licensing would account for like $25, then marketing, shipping, POS would add another $5, and retail would get $5 in profit on each, that would leave $5 for the game developer.

 

I imagine the NES CE was like that in a way. For each $60 unit sold, let's say outside of licensing agreements it ran up a hole of $30, then the next $10/unit would be divvied up between the licensees depending on total games on the system, and then the rest went to profit, and point of sale retailer profit.

[Andromeda Stardust]

Eurogamer is reporting that a SuperNes Classic Edition is in development for release later this year. And supposedly that was a major impetus in the discontinuance of the NES Classic Edition.

 

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2017-04-19-sources-nintendo-to-launch-snes-mini-this-year

 

While I own on cartridge or via the Virtual Console pretty much everything likely to be present here of interest to me, I've yet to ever buy the Donkey Kong Country trilogy in any form. So it would be ideal for me to see that present here. And hopefully they take this opportunity to finally emulate the Super FX chip, since it just wouldn't be right to not include Yoshi's Island and Star Fox here (I won't even bother dreaming for Star Fox 2).

 

If accurate, I hope the controller maintains the Wii Classic Controller standard. Other than upping the cord length, it's just fine and offers compatibility with Nintendo's last two generations of console hardware.

So those of us who missed out may have a shot next year? NES Mini 2 and SNES Mini sounds like a hot item. I do hope they decide to ramp production tenfold so holiday shoppers can just walk into a store and buy one...

[Andromeda Stardust]

 

Not to me it doesn't. There is a BIG difference between temporarily halting production and using the word discontinued. If they planned on simply halting production until a later date someone needs a kick in the nuts and an English class.

Pretty straightforward really. NES Classic Mini 1 is discontinued. NES Classic Mini 2 is coming, with 40 games, 20 of them dupes from last year and twenty of them brand new. Oh yeah, and an SNES model!

[Andromeda Stardust]

Exactly - and if they're somehow, someway only making "peanuts", then they're doing something fatally wrong in this day and age.

 

Nintendo: with the highest priced PnP on the market, with the fewest games and we're to believe they're not making any money?! Just look at the AtGames Flashback Atari, Sega, ColecoVision, Intellivision offerings. All of them are less expensive and offer a lot more games. And some with 3rd party titles even, that have to be eating away at the margin.

Gameplaywise, the selection of NES Classic Mini titles is all around better than the Atari and Sega Flashbacks, with better emulation and HD. And also NES was remembered for saving the game industry, while Atari on the other hand, destroyed it. Sega did do what Nintendidn't when they dropped out of the hardware race. So you've got Nintendo's reputation riding on the Mini, quality over quantity, and all those factors went into making the Mini a better and more desirable product with better packaging, exterior, and menu interface. So arguing the $40 Flashbacks are equivalent or even superior valuewise to the $60 NES Classic Mini isn't looking at the bigger picture. Nintendo is the Harley Davidson of classic video games, regardless how they're faring now, and will always be more priased and collectible than their competitors, even in the generations where they played third fiddle. Forgive my fanboyisms...

[Schizophretard]

.... HAVE YOU NOT READ THIS THREAD?!

Every word. Have you because I clearly explained by what I meant by that and my Black Friday analogy as part of that explanation also clearly shows that I haven't overlooked things like?:

 

There are people calling stores a dozen times a DAY looking for a Mini.

 

There are people paying so much on Ebay you wonder why they don't just buy a Switch & wait for VC.

Doesn't that kind of put a hole in your "inexpensive nostalgia device" theory? That doesn't hurt my argument at all that the high demand for getting it at $60 is caused from people perceiving that these games have a higher value than they are being sold for and are like a Black Friday discount. It also doesn't hurt my argument that if Nintendo doesn't completely exhaust the demand for these games that they could protect the value of them and sell them at higher prices than they have with the NES Classic Edition and/or use them as added value for other future uses. In other words, there appears to be a market for Nintendo to be the "scalpers" by selling an expensive nostalgia device.

 

We have two other threads about this thing here on Atariage. But no, that apparently doesn't mean there's demand.

We also have many more threads about other Flashback/plug & play devices. Anyway, I haven't denied that there is a demand. I even granted you that they could sell tens of millions of them.

 

Instead, we need to make sure to protect the IP- because the kind of people who bought Mario on the NES, and the SNES, and the Wii, and the virtual console, and the 3DS virtual console, and the Wii U virtual console- they WON'T buy it again on the Switch if the Mini exists?

 

I didn't say they won't buy it again on the Switch. Again, have you not read this thread? I said devaluing the games would make it a harder sale. If you sell tens of millions of new copies of the games because they are perceived to be at extreme Black Friday like discounts and then they become even more cheaper when millions of those games enter the secondary market then the new secondhand prices go from being perceived as extreme discounts to being perceived as the new regular price(devalued). For an example, that could make selling Super Mario Bros. for $4.99 on the Switch look like it is being sold for many times more than it is worth(hard sale).

 

Anyway, protecting the value of their games is how they got people to buy them over and over again and not because they did some racing to the bottom devaluation strategy that made the games so cheap that no one could pass them up.

 

I'm just done- if you really cannot look at all this damn focus on the Mini and not think 'maybe it's a good idea to keep 1 factory making minis, just until the scalpers can only sell for double instead of 4-5 times MSRP', we will never see remotely eye to eye on this.

I think at least in some way we do see eye to eye on this and you just don't know it because what you just described as being a good idea is Nintendo intentionally devaluing their games. So, we are seeing eye to eye that it is devaluation. If at the current supply people are willing to pay 4-5 times the MSRP then this bundle of games is clearly worth more than $60. That means that not only did Nintendo miscalculate the demand for their planned supply but also the price(obviously since they go together). And what is your plan to correct this miscalculation? For Nintendo to manufacture millions more of these than they originally planned to until the value actually drops down(devalues) to $60 which will obviously devalue even more when millions of them go into the secondary market when the novelty wears off. And for what purpose should Nintendo intentionally devalue these games and makes this devaluation worth it? So, that millions of people who have zero interest in modern gaming(the market Nintendo is in) to be able to get one without buying from scalpers. That doesn't make business sense to me.

 

What does make business sense to me is for Nintendo to admit that they miscalculated the demand, add extra shipments for PR reasons but not to such an extent that it massively devalues the games, and wait until your target audience is mostly distracted with the Switch to announce that it is discontinued and that it was never intended to be a long-term product while apologizing for the difficulty customers have had at getting one. All those things Nintendo has done. In other words, admit they screwed up, do some damage control on the screw up, apologize for the screw up, and end the screw up instead of just rolling with it as if there was no screw up at all until the games are devalued to an extent that the NES Classic Edition can sit scalper safe next to an Atari Flashback because there is no longer a huge difference between the perceived value of the two. So, yeah, we probably won't see eye to eye on this one because I'm going to have to agree with Nintendo on this one.

[Kismet]

 

If you recall, we had that rumor earlier from a few different sources. Basically it was that Nintendo was going to stock the NES Mini throughout the year and then come out with a SNES Classic Mini this coming holiday. The first part of that reporting obviously fell down, so we have reason to be skeptical about a SNES Classic Mini. It would be strange for Nintendo to go through with one part of the original rumored plan and not the other.

 

For now, I'm going to say this is just an old rumor resurfacing, and, based on what Nintendo just did with the NES Classic Mini, they're not going to go ahead with the SNES version (even though it may very well already be designed). Who knows, though? Nintendo is anything but predictable these days.

 

(and Nintendo has yet to issue a statement in response to IGN's claims, obviously)

 

 

The rumor is based on the SFC controller trademark being registered like the NES controller was before the Mini was released.

 

As for why the NES Mini was discontinued so quickly, blame the pirates. I reported 240 "loaded" consoles on ebay last night, an and additional 40 this morning. There was only 100 non-loaded. People are also asking between $400 and $1000's for these loaded pirate modified consoles. And people are bidding them.

 

If Nintendo is in fact producing a SNES-mini, which I'm pretty sure they will (25th anniversary maybe) they likely will not leave such an easy backdoor in it this time. Nintendo will likely only use it's first party games this time around.

[Atariboy]

Eurogamer is quite clear that the sources of their information are close to the company. They didn't suddenly post this article on the basis of some trademark filing from last year.

 

And while they might ensure there are no easy entryways into the system despite the negligible harm that NES Classic modding has done, I see no reason to believe that they won't include select 3rd party classics if they release such a product. A Super Nintendo themed counterpart without a handful of popular 3rd party releases like Super Castlevania IV would be a clear step backwards from last year's release, not to mention likely limit the game count to well under 20 games.

 

Heck, if Square and Rare aren't on board with Super Mario RPG and Donkey Kong Country and we ignore potential additions like Star Fox that have never had a VC rerelease, we're looking at about 12 games here. So barring Nintendo saying something to the contrary, I see no reason to think that they'd do such a thing.

Edited April 20, 2017 by Atariboy

[almightytodd]

Hah, yes it *IS* fun. Thanks for the offer I can set up R-Pi all by myself. I'm a big boy! I would have to include Star Blazer in that list. Along with Pinball Construction Set, A2-FS1, some of the Bill Budge stuff.

 

There are so many defining games I don't think you can limit it to just 20 or 30. Maybe 100. And lists like this are highly personal. Depends what you like, depends what you experienced back in the day.

But it would just be ever so much more cool if it were an officially "blessed" and branded collectible product; even more so if they could bring in Woz to collaborate. The same would be true for a plug-and-play Lisa and Mac Classic.

 

Apple could sell these things at huge margins (It would be expected - part of the identity of Apple as a premium brand). I know the leadership at Apple feels like they need to be always moving forward, but they would do well to observe how skillfully George Lucas made millions by repackaging the same three films over and over again, even as new material was being added to the established brand.

Edited April 20, 2017 by almightytodd

[Bill Loguidice]

But it would just be ever so much more cool if it were an officially "blessed" and branded collectible product; even more so if they could bring in Woz to collaborate. The same would be true for a plug-and-play Lisa and Mac Classic.

 

Apple could sell these things at huge margins (It would be expected - part of the identity of Apple as a premium brand). I know the leadership at Apple feels like they need to be always moving forward, but they would do well to observe how skillfully George Lucas made millions by repackaging the same three films over and over again, even as new material was being added to the established brand.

 

Apple would never ever do something like this. It's literal small potatoes for them, plus why would they want to dredge up a past that they've mostly ignored since going all-Mac?

 

Actually, at AtGames, we considered something like this, but as always, getting the rights to decent games is the biggest hurdle to even attempting it.

[Keatah]

Now. With today's manufacturing techniques one could do a lot. And if it is of high-quality materials consumer's won't mind the extra buck being tacked on. That's what was impressive back in the day, the Apple II was built of sturdy stuff. I can't see Apple doing such a thing however. They're not going to be interested no matter how much we scream and clamor.

 

Part of the identity of the Apple II are the expansion slots. I don't know how that would go over today. I'd assume the most popular cards and their functions would need to be built-in - like how AppleWin emulator simulates a SuperSerialCard and 80/64K card.

 

In counterpoint, The Apple II was a popular hobbyist computer. So in a roundabout way it would be fitting that hobbyists end up doing it. Replicas, refurbing hardware from ebay, building tiny emulator boxes, lot's of possibilities.

 

But back to the list, other favs of mine are like Space Raiders II (Star Raider's clone) and Star Dance, OO-Topos, Serpentine, and Horizon V.. And god knows how many others. Side-loading would be an absolute must..

[Kismet]

Now. With today's manufacturing techniques one could do a lot. And if it is of high-quality materials consumer's won't mind the extra buck being tacked on. That's what was impressive back in the day, the Apple II was built of sturdy stuff. I can't see Apple doing such a thing however. They're not going to be interested no matter how much we scream and clamor.

 

Part of the identity of the Apple II are the expansion slots. I don't know how that would go over today. I'd assume the most popular cards and their functions would need to be built-in - like how AppleWin emulator simulates a SuperSerialCard and 80/64K card.

 

In counterpoint, The Apple II was a popular hobbyist computer. So in a roundabout way it would be fitting that hobbyists end up doing it. Replicas, refurbing hardware from ebay, building tiny emulator boxes, lot's of possibilities.

 

But back to the list, other favs of mine are like Space Raiders II (Star Raider's clone) and Star Dance, OO-Topos, Serpentine, and Horizon V.. And god knows how many others. Side-loading would be an absolute must..

 

The Apple II emu's also emulate the Mockingboard.

 

I wouldn't put it past Apple producing something like the Analog NT Mini, except perhaps with a hypervisor SOC that manages a virtual floppy drive. I'd imagine the same would be true of the C64 and the Amiga 500 had Commodore still been around today and the source code to Amiga OS 3.1 hadn't been leaked.

 

But this is a super-niche market. Apple could use a FPGA system to build a 68K emulator, or just use their own fab partners to produce new 68K SoC's with all the mac hardware on a single chip and do it. I'm sure they have access to everything they need to do such a thing. It's just not a very "Apple" thing to ever revive an old product. Apple pushes forward often at the expense of still-working hardware.

[Flojomojo]

Nintendo is the Harley Davidson of classic video games

 

They're all about image and merchandising, appeal mainly to tattooed baby boomers, and their flagship product is an anachronistically noisy thing that goes "potato-potato-potato" when idling?

 

Apple would never ever do something like this. It's literal small potatoes for them, plus why would they want to dredge up a past that they've mostly ignored since going all-Mac?

 

Speaking of potatoes ... I totally agree. $200 coffee table book aside, Apple DGAF about ancient computers. One could argue that they don't much care much about the Mac, either.

 

It's just not a very "Apple" thing to ever revive an old product. Apple pushes forward often at the expense of still-working hardware.

 

Especially when they didn't design or distribute any of the software you liked when Apple II was hot. Better to roll your own Apple II retro box than to wait for Apple to look backwards and live in the past.

 

I love the virtual machines on Archive.org for farting around without downloading or configuring anything.

They just added early Macintosh, and

Here's the Apple II collection

[Bill Loguidice]

 

Especially when they didn't design or distribute any of the software you liked when Apple II was hot. Better to roll your own Apple II retro box than to wait for Apple to look backwards and live in the past.

 

I love the virtual machines on Archive.org for farting around without downloading or configuring anything.

They just added early Macintosh, and

Here's the Apple II collection

 

It should also be pointed out in particular for the people here, that while there's some expense involved, late model Apple II's are very easy to buy and use these days. You can literally just buy say, an Apple IIe, plug its composite output into a display of your choosing, and run software straight from the Internet using nothing more than a 3.5mm audio cable. You can of course go up in complexity from there, including with several flash-based solutions, but it's still about as plug and play as a vintage computer gets.

[+save2600]

Gameplaywise, the selection of NES Classic Mini titles is all around better than the Atari and Sega Flashbacks, with better emulation and HD. And also NES was remembered for saving the game industry, while Atari on the other hand, destroyed it. Sega did do what Nintendidn't when they dropped out of the hardware race. So you've got Nintendo's reputation riding on the Mini, quality over quantity, and all those factors went into making the Mini a better and more desirable product with better packaging, exterior, and menu interface. So arguing the $40 Flashbacks are equivalent or even superior valuewise to the $60 NES Classic Mini isn't looking at the bigger picture. Nintendo is the Harley Davidson of classic video games, regardless how they're faring now, and will always be more priased and collectible than their competitors, even in the generations where they played third fiddle. Forgive my fanboyisms...

Should go without saying, especially in an Atari-centric forum such as this, but claiming the selection of games on the NES Mini is superior to Atari and the Sega (or any other Flashback) is totally subjective. Yes, your fanboyism is showing.

 

Besides all that, you state a perception that Nintendo is the Harley Davidson of classic video games (gag), and Nintendo capitalizes on that perception by pricing their product $20+ higher than their competitors. That may be all well and good, but what does that have to do with others' claiming Nintendo is not making enough money on the NES Mini to rationalize the continued production of their machine? That was my point originally as I believe they were making plenty of money. Wouldn't have released the thing at the $60 price point had they not calculated their margins properly. Which are probably on a par or superior to that of the Flashbacks for all we know.

 

On the subject of subjectivity though, I'll just say that I've owned every North American Nintendo console ever released (save for the Switch), spent all sorts of money building up great libraries for most, yet none of them have withstood as staples in the collection or endured as long as my Atari and Intellivision consoles have. Whoops, am I starting to sound like an Atari or Intellivision fanboy now? lol Not meaning to, but it is what it is. And yes, I do believe that all of the AtGames Flashbacks represent better values (all of them) than the Classic Mini. Why wouldn't I? First of all, I'm not into playing classic games on an LCD - don't care for the way they look and like lag even less, so appreciate the composite CRT friendly output of the Flashbacks. Plus - more games, more fun™.

 

Play Atari, Colecovision, Intellivision and Genesis to this day and have played them for years longer than I've cared to play Nintendo. Certainly I'm not the only one that feels this way. Might seem like a minority opinion or view to you, but hey... I bet there's more people actually playing Flashback systems than they are NES Mini's right now. Could have something to do with their crippled and botched distribution of the machine or... just might not be as many 'intendo fans as you may think.