Nintendo Classic Mini announced

[Gentlegamer]

AVS is in, Castlevania III works perfectly!

 

Also played SMB2, works great.

 

It appears to my eye that colors are slightly off, but that is probably the settings on my TV.

[+GoldLeader]

AVS is in, Castlevania III works perfectly!

 

Also played SMB2, works great.

 

It appears to my eye that colors are slightly off, but that is probably the settings on my TV.

 

Sweet! Congrats man!

 

If I had one of those I'd be wanting to try RECCA and see if the extra sprites mode could eliminate some flicker or not...

[0078265317]

Assuming the NX were to fail like the Wii U, then I do think there's a scenario where Nintendo could take the NES Mini concept through a logical evolution and release a mini console that took collectible mini cartridges, although maybe with an SNES technological foundation. They could release it at $99 with two wireless controllers and re-release classic games (and even some new games), but make the game boxes something special and collectible, a la what they did with the Amiibo stuff.

 

Exactly, nice idea.

[Pixelboy]

 

Assuming the NX were to fail like the Wii U, then I do think there's a scenario where Nintendo could take the NES Mini concept through a logical evolution and release a mini console that took collectible mini cartridges, although maybe with an SNES technological foundation. They could release it at $99 with two wireless controllers and re-release classic games (and even some new games), but make the game boxes something special and collectible, a la what they did with the Amiibo stuff.

Exactly, nice idea.

 

Nice idea, but unrealistic in real life. If Nintendo turned their "minis" into sustained business ventures, it would be like admitting defeat, and Sony and Microsoft would laugh at Nintendo endlessly (and the rest of the internet would likely laugh along with them). There is such a thing as corporate ego, and it is that corporate ego that keeps a company moving forward (and stepping backward only in a limited and controlled manner, when there's a buck to make in the process).

[Andromeda Stardust]

Nice idea, but unrealistic in real life. If Nintendo turned their "minis" into sustained business ventures, it would be like admitting defeat, and Sony and Microsoft would laugh at Nintendo endlessly (and the rest of the internet would likely laugh along with them). There is such a thing as corporate ego, and it is that corporate ego that keeps a company moving forward (and stepping backward only in a limited and controlled manner, when there's a buck to make in the process).

The NES Mini is not an admission of defeat. Nor is a future NES Mini2 or SNES Mini. If these things sell out like hot cakes you can guarantee Nintendo will make more. Dedicated plug-n-plays are meant for casual nostalgic fans wanting a cheap, affordable solution to relive the past.

 

The NX is a brand new console, presumably with a redesigned Gamepad concept for portability and docking as home console. It contains bleeding edge mobile CPU and will allow Nintendo to compete head on against both Sony/MS as well as provide an alternative to mobile gaming. Games will be available via retail and digital download.

 

Nintendo's status as a hardware developer may sink or swim on the success of the NX, and despite there will be some overlap with Nintendo's fanbase who purchase both the plug-and-play and the NX, they are really designed for different markets. Nintendo is aware of the success of plug-n-play units in the mid-2000s forward, both licensed and bootlegs. There is a demand for this style of device, and Nintendo is providing it in house.

 

So put away your doom and gloom predictions. The NES Mini is not a backup plan or exit strategy in case the NX fails, but just another cash cow like Amiibo, albeit one they've obviously put a lot of thought into.

[Pixelboy]

So put away your doom and gloom predictions. The NES Mini is not a backup plan or exit strategy in case the NX fails, but just another cash cow like Amiibo, albeit one they've obviously put a lot of thought into.

My intervention was in absolutely no way a "prediction". I was responding to Bill Loguidice's proposition, which was based on the premise of the NX's failure (as a possibility, not a sure thing) and I began my own intervention with the word "if". Also, I suppose it wasn't clear enough, but I was talking about Nintendo dropping the "current gen" technology and focusing exclusively on the minis, which will surely never happen.

[Austin]

It appears to my eye that colors are slightly off, but that is probably the settings on my TV.

 

Yeah, it's definitely different than what you may be used to if you play on a standard CRT via composite. The colors are so much more pronounced on the AVS. Apparently he just released a patch that allows for some palette customization, I haven't installed it yet.

[high voltage]

Yeah but Nintendo put all their sellers on this first mini, both Zelda, all 3 SMB, Kirby, Metroid. Those should've been spread over several minis. Next mini will be the 'run-of-the-mill' stuff.

They should've put 3 hits and the rest fillers on this mini, and the same with the next mini, and so forth.

[Keatah]

And then you'll get people complaining there's not enough hits on one to make it worthwhile.

[Keatah]

Exit strategy? WTF? Who the hell came up with that idea? This is simply another cash cow - maybe a baby one, but still a cash cow. One that will grow.

 

Exit strategy is when you stop. And the big N ain't stopping anytime soon.

[Professor Gull]

I would guess they would go for the Super NES next honestly. Then maybe they might poll on a second mini to get input on what folks would like to see. Just a guess on that though but I also know some games and licensing are not available and that could be something to negotiate in the future if this does well.

[+GoldenWheels]

 

 

So put away your doom and gloom predictions. The NES Mini is not a backup plan or exit strategy in case the NX fails, but just another cash cow like Amiibo, albeit one they've obviously put a lot of thought into.

 

A lot of thought? They thought, hey AtGames did this thing already and it sold well, let's just listen to all the complaints about their products and do it better. How much thought does being a copycat take?

 

(not trying to be hard on the big N here but come on!)

[bretthorror]

Yeah but Nintendo put all their sellers on this first mini, both Zelda, all 3 SMB, Kirby, Metroid. Those should've been spread over several minis. Next mini will be the 'run-of-the-mill' stuff.

They should've put 3 hits and the rest fillers on this mini, and the same with the next mini, and so forth.

 

And have an all filler, no killer system like all the other plug n plays? No thanks.

 

A lot of thought? They thought, hey AtGames did this thing already and it sold well, let's just listen to all the complaints about their products and do it better. How much thought does being a copycat take?

 

(not trying to be hard on the big N here but come on!)

How much thought does it take to release a good product that's worthwhile?

 

More thought than ATgames, I guess!

[+GoldenWheels]

 

 

 

How much thought does it take to release a good product that's worthwhile?

 

More thought than ATgames, I guess!

 

For the price (Black Friday price) I paid I was satisfied with the AtGames systems I own (with the Genesis, somewhat ironically, being my least favorite). I'd certainly say they were "worthwhile" but that is JMO.

 

However the point remains, being a copycat who simply adapts a product to eliminate the shortcomings of a competitor, while a great business tactic, doesn't require a lot of thought. AtGames led, Nintendo followed. Or perhaps the first Namco Plug and Play controller led, or whomever, but I tend to think the case design is an important part of these.

[Flojomojo]

Nintendo has a lot more resources to throw at this than AtGames, Atari, and Sega combined. It hardly seems fair to compare them.

 

If they ever make a mini-SNES, I'd like to see wireless controllers.

[Andromeda Stardust]

 

Yeah, it's definitely different than what you may be used to if you play on a standard CRT via composite. The colors are so much more pronounced on the AVS. Apparently he just released a patch that allows for some palette customization, I haven't installed it yet.

One thing was painfully obvious whenever I played Super Mario Bros on a CRT, I got a nice sky blue background color for the overworld. This pallet always looked a bit too purple to me with FCEU and other emulation options. I have played Super Mario Bros on multiple CRTs and the color is always the same blue, but FCEU, even Nintendo's own VC (which is a bit dark and fuzzy on Wii-U; Wii was much clearer) I get the slight purple hue a bit.

 

Does this have to do with the way CRT process the luma and chroma values versus LCD or are the official and unofficial emulators just "off" in this regard?

 

I'll give my thoughts with the AVS pallet selection whenever mine arrives. Hopefully a non-beta firmware will be available so I can try out that new "v6" composite capture pallet and see if I prefer that to Brian Parker's (RetroUSB) AVS default.

[Atariboy]

A NES Mini sequel doesn't necessarily need an entirely new slate of NES games.

 

Look at the AtGames model. I don't see Nintendo annualizing this thing, but if we did get a NES Mini 2 sometime in the next several years, it could easily keep these 30 games while perhaps adding 10-15 additions.

 

Still a few noteworthy 1st party titles like the Star Tropics sequel. And they've clearly shown a willingness to include licensed titles with this first release. There's no shortage of 3rd party classics like Castlevania III and further Mega Man's that could appear here. Heck, do what it takes to finally get Contra and Bionic Commando out again.

 

Both have appeared on Nintendo portables in their NES form in the 21st century, but remain absent to this day on the Virtual Console.

 

If they ever make a mini-SNES, I'd like to see wireless controllers.

 

I'd hate to break Classic Controller compatibility.

 

Not to mention that at this price point, wireless likely still means IR.

Edited September 19, 2016 by Atariboy

[Trebor]

One thing was painfully obvious whenever I played Super Mario Bros on a CRT, I got a nice sky blue background color for the overworld. This pallet always looked a bit too purple to me with FCEU and other emulation options. I have played Super Mario Bros on multiple CRTs and the color is always the same blue, but FCEU, even Nintendo's own VC (which is a bit dark and fuzzy on Wii-U; Wii was much clearer) I get the slight purple hue a bit.

Always has been my experience too. All CRTs I've seen and own always show a nice blue color for the sky. The purple lean I experience with real hardware is under modern displays.

 

Does this have to do with the way CRT process the luma and chroma values versus LCD or are the official and unofficial emulators just "off" in this regard?

 

Some blues (I.E. Super Mario Bros.) will appear more purple (Stronger red to blue ratio), some tan/browns (I.E. Battletoads ground portions) appear green (Weaker red to green ratio) on an LCD (Plasma, LED) vs a CRT.

 

Best looking and cleanest correction I've seen for this via NES emulation is puNES incorporating the Sony CXA2025AS US decode matrix:

 

 

Otherwise to "fix" this issue under other emulators (I.E. Nestopia %5UE%5D) adjust the hue/tint controls to lean slightly more red.

 

P.S. That Super Mario Bros. sky value is the same used for the background of Kung Fu and ring floor/back fence rails of Pro Wrestling.

[RevEng]

Some blues (I.E. Super Mario Bros.) will appear more purple (Stronger red to blue ratio), some tan/browns (I.E. Battletoads ground portions) appear green (Weaker red to green ratio) on an LCD (Plasma, LED) vs a CRT.

I had a hunch that this might have been reasons for this beyond the technology. It seems there was a visible change in color primary and white point definitions between the 1953 NTSC standard and the 1987 SMPTE-C standard. In other words, Mario's purple sky is a side-effect of the TV standard folks tweaking the color gammut.

[Osgeld]

Does this have to do with the way CRT process the luma and chroma values versus LCD or are the official and unofficial emulators just "off" in this regard?

 

NTSC = never the same color twice, take the same machine and plug it into 3 different CRT's it will be different 3 times, same goes the other way, take 3 NES's and plug them into the same CRT, they will all be slightly different

 

also notice in your example pictures how the greens lost about 2 shades of turd brown in them on the purple screen

Edited September 20, 2016 by Osgeld

[Andromeda Stardust]

 

Otherwise to "fix" this issue under other emulators (I.E. Nestopia %5BUE%5D) adjust the hue/tint controls to lean slightly more red.

 

P.S. That Super Mario Bros. sky value is the same used for the background of Kung Fu and ring floor/back fence rails of Pro Wrestling.

You may be on to something with this. The bricks look a bit more reddish and slightly less brownish in the second screenshot with the true blue skies. I think also the NES pallet for the water is slightly lighter and has a touch more green in it hence water levels do not get the "purple" look like the daytime overworld levels do.

 

I may plug my NES or AV Famicom into our Sanyo HDTV to see if the purple crops up again. LCDs convert the luma/chroma signals into digital RGB before displaying to the screen. Really old PC capture cards, from which the older color pallets in popular emulators such as FCEU were likely originally captured from, may process the chroma signals slightly differently compared to the purely analog conversion that CRT tubes use while racing the beam.

 

I've gotten used to the purple skies over time despite knowing that it wasn't correct, ie not how I remembered it as a kid, and not how it displays today over a CRT with native NES composite or RF signal.

[Trebor]

I had a hunch that this might have been reasons for this beyond the technology. It seems there was a visible change in color primary and white point definitions between the 1953 NTSC standard and the 1987 SMPTE-C standard. In other words, Mario's purple sky is a side-effect of the TV standard folks tweaking the color gammut.

 

I wonder how many CRT televisions sold in the US post 1987 conformed to the change or/and made some other adjustment to compensate.

 

I purchased a Zenith CRT television in the mid 90's as well as a few Panasonic CRT televisions in the late 90's and early 2000's all displaying that same blue sky appearance. Ditto with my wife's (Girlfriend at the time) RCA from the early to mid 90's.

 

 

You may be on to something with this. The bricks look a bit more reddish and slightly less brownish in the second screenshot with the true blue skies. I think also the NES pallet for the water is slightly lighter and has a touch more green in it hence water levels do not get the "purple" look like the daytime overworld levels do.

 

I may plug my NES or AV Famicom into our Sanyo HDTV to see if the purple crops up again. LCDs convert the luma/chroma signals into digital RGB before displaying to the screen. Really old PC capture cards, from which the older color pallets in popular emulators such as FCEU were likely originally captured from, may process the chroma signals slightly differently compared to the purely analog conversion that CRT tubes use while racing the beam.

 

I've gotten used to the purple skies over time despite knowing that it wasn't correct, ie not how I remembered it as a kid, and not how it displays today over a CRT with native NES composite or RF signal.

 

If interested, more technical details and the impact not just on the NES palette (Or consoles for that matter), but with the C64 as well, is available; Vice developer, Groepaz, did an excellent write up including screen captures and comparisons.

[RevEng]

I wonder how many CRT televisions sold in the US post 1987 conformed to the change or/and made some other adjustment to compensate.

 

I purchased a Zenith CRT television in the mid 90's as well as a few Panasonic CRT televisions in the late 90's and early 2000's all displaying that same blue sky appearance. Ditto with my wife's (Girlfriend at the time) RCA from the early to mid 90's.

Yeah, I suspect a lot of manufacturers didn't jump on the new standard right away. Until viewing material was produced that adhered to the new standard, people would complain the blue skies on their favorite shows were purple. Its also worth mentioning that Japan didn't bother to adopt the SMPTE-C standard at all, and kept running with the old NTSC primaries.

[Trebor]

It may be too much to hope for and see materialize in a mainstream focused product such as the NES Mini; regardless, glad to see some of the NES hardware video mod(s) - at least for RGB - provide the options for alternate decoding of colors (I.E. "Garnish" vs "Improved"); despite not necessarily agreeing with their respective labels.

 

Hoping to see something similar (perhaps hacked for the NES Mini or) made available in the other (re)creations of the system, either hardware or software driven.

[Pixelboy]

A thought just occurred to me: What can we expect in terms of game manuals with the NES Mini? Take the manual of each of the 30 games individually, and it's not too bad, but bundle them up and you get a rather thick booklet. I wonder how Nintendo will handle this...