Flojomojo Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 I've got what you need, old man, but it will cost you extra. Ten thousand, all in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlsson Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 Although a bit off-topic, but I learned about a new HDMI converter specifically aimed at video games. It will cost somewhere in the range of $150-200 but also offers a very good image without lag. I saw it at a retro gaming event earlier this fall, but didn't pick up any further details as I'm not in the target customer group. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaximRecoil Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 I've got what you need, old man No, you don't, and in all likelihood, you're about as old or older than I am. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godslabrat Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 Anyone who has used an NES emulator (which have been around for about 20 years) on a PC has already seen how "glorious" that looks. Blocky graphics look like crap on high-resolution dispays; flat, lifeless, pasty, and with razor-sharp pixels which make everything look like it was made from Lego blocks. There's a reason that so many people who have built emulation-based arcade-style cabinets have gone to great effort and expense to be able to connect their PC to a 15 kHz CRT display. In any case, I just found out about this Nintendo plug-and-play, and I was very surprised that Nintendo would do such a thing; it is very out-of-character for them. Unfortunately, they didn't do it right from my perspective, so I won't be buying one. Had I worked for Nintendo and been in charge of this project, it would have been like this: 1. It would use real hardware, not emulation. In theory, Nintendo should be able to build a perfect NoaC, because it is their hardware design to begin with, i.e., they don't have to reverse-engineer anything. 2. It would have an expansion port into which an official cartridge adapter could be plugged, allowing you to play the original cartridges. When the cartridge adapter has a game cartridge inserted, the machine would boot directly to it like a real NES does; otherwise it would boot to the menu showing the built-in games. 3. An official HDMI-to-A/V adapter would be made available, and it would produce the same picture quality as the composite output on an original USA front-loader NES. I highly doubt that any aftermarket HDMI-to-A/V adapter would give you the same picture quality as an original NES, which is the best I've ever seen on any console. It blows the composite picture quality of an original Sega Genesis out of the water, for example. On a good quality CRT TV in good condition, "glorious" actually is a fitting term here. It is practically on par with component/RGB, which is an amazing achievement for lowly composite video. If it were like that, I'd definitely buy one. Even if you discard #1 I'd still buy one, provided the emulation was transparent enough (which means it would have to be better than any currently-available emulator). It's funny that the emulator has a simulated CRT scanlines option (which is never even remotely convincing), yet no official way to connect it to a real 15 kHz CRT. But either way, I already have an original front-loader NES which works flawlessly, first time, every time (and I know how to keep it working flawlessly), and I have a pair of NOS OEM controllers for it, so I'm not actually missing out on anything aside from the bargain-priced built-in games, which consists almost entirely of games that I either already have in original cartridge form or don't want anyway. The day that I have any interest whatsoever in playing classic video games on a digital TV/monitor is the day that pigs fly ... at Mach 20. So, basically, you're saying they did it all wrong, and this is how you'd design it for yourself, even though you wouldn't want one anyway? That's exactly the reason Nintendo didn't do it that way. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaximRecoil Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 So, basically, you're saying they did it all wrong, and this is how you'd design it for yourself, even though you wouldn't want one anyway? I said: If it were like that, I'd definitely buy one. Even if you discard #1 I'd still buy one, provided the emulation was transparent enough (which means it would have to be better than any currently-available emulator). That's exactly the reason Nintendo didn't do it that way. Negated, due to you not actually reading my post before you replied to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 I did a web search for "not Nintendo's audience for the NES Classic Mini" and only got one result. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaximRecoil Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 I did a web search for "not Nintendo's audience for the NES Classic Mini" and only got one result. Given that I already said ... Unfortunately, they didn't do it right from my perspective, so I won't be buying one. ... and based on your "conclusion" that I'm "not Nintendo's audience for the NES Classic Mini", I can safely say that you have a firm grasp of the obvious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 Your sense of humor is exceeded only by the colorfulness of your avatar! 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlegamer Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 No, you don't, and in all likelihood, you're about as old or older than I am. Where did you dig up this old fossil? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaximRecoil Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 Your sense of humor is exceeded only by the colorfulness of your avatar! Well, I do find your belief that you're qualified to appraise anyone else's sense of humor, funny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaximRecoil Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 Posted Today, 12:29 PM Why are you replying to me without saying anything relevant to my original post or this thread? Are you looking for someone to randomly chat with? I'm not interested. You might try a social networking site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlegamer Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 Why are you replying to me without saying anything relevant to my original post or this thread? Are you looking for someone to randomly chat with? I'm not interested. You might try a social networking site. Flojomojo is versed in over six million forms of communication. But he's not much of a storyteller... not making them interesting, anyway. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 (edited) TLDNR Anyone who has used an NES emulator (which have been around for about 20 years) on a PC has already seen how "glorious" that looks. Blocky graphics look like crap on high-resolution dispays; flat, lifeless, pasty, and with razor-sharp pixels which make everything look like it was made from Lego blocks. There's a reason that so many people who have built emulation-based arcade-style cabinets have gone to great effort and expense to be able to connect their PC to a 15 kHz CRT display. In any case, I just found out about this Nintendo plug-and-play, and I was very surprised that Nintendo would do such a thing; it is very out-of-character for them. Unfortunately, they didn't do it right from my perspective, so I won't be buying one. Had I worked for Nintendo and been in charge of this project, it would have been like this: 1. It would use real hardware, not emulation. In theory, Nintendo should be able to build a perfect NoaC, because it is their hardware design to begin with, i.e., they don't have to reverse-engineer anything. 2. It would have an expansion port into which an official cartridge adapter could be plugged, allowing you to play the original cartridges. When the cartridge adapter has a game cartridge inserted, the machine would boot directly to it like a real NES does; otherwise it would boot to the menu showing the built-in games. 3. An official HDMI-to-A/V adapter would be made available, and it would produce the same picture quality as the composite output on an original USA front-loader NES. I highly doubt that any aftermarket HDMI-to-A/V adapter would give you the same picture quality as an original NES, which is the best I've ever seen on any console. It blows the composite picture quality of an original Sega Genesis out of the water, for example. On a good quality CRT TV in good condition, "glorious" actually is a fitting term here. It is practically on par with component/RGB, which is an amazing achievement for lowly composite video. If it were like that, I'd definitely buy one. Even if you discard #1 I'd still buy one, provided the emulation was transparent enough (which means it would have to be better than any currently-available emulator). It's funny that the emulator has a simulated CRT scanlines option (which is never even remotely convincing), yet no official way to connect it to a real 15 kHz CRT. But either way, I already have an original front-loader NES which works flawlessly, first time, every time (and I know how to keep it working flawlessly), and I have a pair of NOS OEM controllers for it, so I'm not actually missing out on anything aside from the bargain-priced built-in games, which consists almost entirely of games that I either already have in original cartridge form or don't want anyway. The day that I have any interest whatsoever in playing classic video games on a digital TV/monitor is the day that pigs fly ... at Mach 20. To do all of that would not make it the "mini" anymore. Might as well release the whole console all over again. At full price. Edited November 2, 2016 by Keatah 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlegamer Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 TLDNR To do all of that would not make it the "mini" anymore. Might as well release the whole console all over again. At full price. It's out. It's called the AVS. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godslabrat Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 This is designed to be appealing to people wanting a fun stocking stuffer or party gift for the holidays. Exactly 0% of that market are going to be trying to connect it to a CRT. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 Flojomojo is versed in over six million forms of communication. But he's not much of a storyteller... not making them interesting, anyway. I think you mean "she..." Mind exploded! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 It's out. It's called the AVS. This. It's amazing, and if you have a NintendoAge account, you can upload scores on select games to their database. AVS, which like the mini, does not support composite. Perhaps Maximum Recoil should wait for the NT Mini? Here's the cost breakdown: NES Mini: Plays 30 original games. HDMI only. No carts. = $60 AVS: Plays thousands of new and original Famicom and NES games including flash carts. HDMI only. = $185 Analogue NT 2/Mini: Plays thousands of new and original Famicom and NES games including flash carts. HDMI + analog video outputs. = $450 Basically he'll be paying a 250% upcharge for the NT Mini just for the privilege of analog outpus and a few menu tweaks. Or buy an NES deck. Composite + RF. Rickety cart loader. Plays NES. $40-$60 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamemoose Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 While MaximRecoil's desired device would be cool to get and would totally be possible to build, it would probably be price-prohibitive. Nintendo could, just as RetroUSB did, develop a modern-day NES with the built in games. However, classic gaming is really a niche market in the grand scheme of the video game world. At an elevated price (it would almost have to be as there'd be more than making a NOAC going on) it would not be a casual purchase. On top of that, how many people would buy the cartridge adapter and would that forecasted number make manufacturing worthwhile? Then what about the converter? Would there be enough of THAT audience to warrant an official adapter? No, Nintendo is doing the right thing by looking at the present. CRT TV's, save for what is being packratted away, is history. Create an all-in-one machine with controllers that is plug and play. No fuss, no muss. Price is a little higher than a brand new video game, but you get thirty titles. I find it odd- I know I and others BITD tried to get our TVs and monitors to give the sharpest images possible. No "glow", no blur. I was amazed how sharp a NES game looked on a Commodore monitor. Now we complain that these same games now look "too sharp" on our modern TVs and desire down-converters or modes with the console that give that "old TV look". When I played Kid Icarus on my Retron 5 (before it died), it was gorgeous on my TV. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaximRecoil Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 (edited) To do all of that would not make it the "mini" anymore. Might as well release the whole console all over again. At full price. It would still be "mini". No one would be required to buy the cartridge adapter or the A/V adapter (and the A/V adapter wouldn't even be very big; smaller than a pack of cigarettes). There are already aftermarket options for an HDMI-to-A/V adapter, but I suspect they suck compared to the picture quality of the original NES's, or even the SNES's, composite video output. Or buy an NES deck. Composite + RF. Rickety cart loader. Plays NES. $40-$60 I already have a real NES, as I said in my original post (I have 4 of them actually; 3 front-loaders and 1 top-loader; none of which I paid anything for). I don't have any problems with the cartridge loader. The front-loaders work perfectly with their original 72-pin connector as long as you keep it, and the cartridge pins, clean. I find it odd- I know I and others BITD tried to get our TVs and monitors to give the sharpest images possible. No "glow", no blur. I was amazed how sharp a NES game looked on a Commodore monitor. Now we complain that these same games now look "too sharp" on our modern TVs and desire down-converters or modes with the console that give that "old TV look". When I played Kid Icarus on my Retron 5 (before it died), it was gorgeous on my TV. That's because sharpness on a standard-resolution CRT looks good with primitive graphics, while the sharpness on a high-resolution LCD, or even a high-resolution CRT, doesn't look good with such graphics. You are talking about two totally different types of "sharpness". Standard-resolution CRTs have a very coarse dot pitch, along with a coarse shadow mask, which inherently rounds the edges of the game pixels: Both of those are "sharp", i.e., in focus, but as I said, it is a very different type of sharpness. The CRT version, on top, looks more organic, more like a real painting, and the shadow mask even gives the textured effect of a canvas. The one on bottom, which is how primitive graphics look on a high-resolution display, is the very definition of pixelated; it looks like something out of an old version of MS Paint. Also, 15 kHz CRTs display the graphics in their native resolution, while high-resolution displays have to "upscale" the graphics in order to make them fill the screen. They do this with either a "nearest neighbor" approach, which preserves and magnifies the MS Paint / Lego look, or with a filter such as along the lines of bicubic or bilinear, which looks even worse, because it creates a headache-inducing Gaussian blur effect (like so), which is ugly as homemade shoes. Edited November 2, 2016 by MaximRecoil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
high voltage Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 Is it out yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE146 Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 Or buy an NES deck. Composite + RF. Rickety cart loader. Plays NES. $40-$60 Man I think I payed over $200 for mine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godslabrat Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 Give me the bottom picture any day. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schizophretard Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 Every time I see that picture I think of this scene: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 Man I think I payed over $200 for mine Seriously? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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