Nintendo Classic Mini announced

[Andromeda Stardust]

....but but but then movies ported to other medias are all non-classics?

Sure the DVD version of a film from the 20s is not the original thing, it undergoes some down-sampling and other digital processing .... but is it the same movie or not (differences accounted)?

 

BTW I agree that it does matter where you play it, I like to play on orig hardware but it comes with too many warts.

Regarding "emu is not the real thing" we can digress and start talking about the possibility that we are all living in a computer simulation ..... hence we are not real as well so it does not really matter, but that's too metaphysics to me anyway.

In a lot of ways, classic movies look better now than they did on release, using digitally restored masters for transfer to DVD BluRay. You've got HD media that is often sharper clearer signal with no poorly focused projectors or dusty/faded film stock.

 

So one can argue the experience of watching a movie today that looks better than it did on release is a superior experience. The same can be said of razor sharp pixels on an HD display rather than a poorl adjusted tube display with noisy RF cable like many of us experienced them growing up. Maximrecall can keep that schight.

 

 

I disagree.

ROMs are a media, their content is what matters, exactly as books are media, their content (the story/tech/poetry etc..) is what matters.

 

Now to replay media we need an interpreter (always been the case) or if you prefer transducer (for books our eyes would normally do but for the rest we need tech assistance). The closest the interpreter/transducer is to the hardware used when the media was manufactured the closest the experience to the "original". If the content is a classic, no matter the interpreter (I use the term loosely) you're still dealing with the classic (not the original).

 

The more the interpreter is far from the original (by some definition) and the more people start drawing lines in the sand as to what is orthodox and what's not .... I don't care as it is all lines in the sand anyway.

 

Wrt videogames the content of the media (ROMs/CD/DVD or all digital as it may be) was targeted at a platform (NES/SNES etc.../etc....) so the closest a modern interpreter/transducer is to replicate/simulate/emulate/wtf-ate the platform the closest the experience to the original (it comes with caveat as for some games an HLE is all that is needed).

 

Finally different people consider the terminal/screen interaction differently, I personally don't think the CRT is integral part of the original experience (artifacts aside) but just a necessity of the era. You don't like LCD, great, how about plasma? I love their picture.

 

By your token then any port of any arcade is not the original hence it should not matter but many would agree that a nice play of Gyruss on C64 or A800 (even thru emulation) is as good as they care to get and as classic as it gets for them.

 

I believe you use the term "classic" as "original" hence some confusion on some of your statements.

QFT.

[Andromeda Stardust]

Atari Flashback portable on Tuesday November 8th, Election Day, if not before!

Will Dollar General be stocking these? A ton of these outlets where I live in the deep south.

[NinjaWarrior]

Is anyone goiing to pick one up on Friday?

 

I am

[Trinity]

Is anyone goiing to pick one up on Friday?

 

I am

I'm gonna try!

[Schizophretard]

In a lot of ways, classic movies look better now than they did on release, using digitally restored masters for transfer to DVD BluRay. You've got HD media that is often sharper clearer signal with no poorly focused projectors or dusty/faded film stock.

 

So one can argue the experience of watching a movie today that looks better than it did on release is a superior experience. The same can be said of razor sharp pixels on an HD display rather than a poorl adjusted tube display with noisy RF cable like many of us experienced them growing up. Maximrecall can keep that schight.

 

 

QFT.

 

That reminds me of this video about why it is that classic movies look better now. I think he makes good points about how film is at higher resolutions than our home media. So, in a way, we haven't seen classic movies yet as they were intended because what was intended was the exact detail that was picked up by the film.

 

[high voltage]

Didn't watch that guy above, but surely the point of putting old films on Blue Ray (and even any format following) is to preserve them for future reference.

Edited November 7, 2016 by high voltage

[godslabrat]

Third-Party controller for NES Classic Edition: https://www.amazon.com/My-Arcade-GamePad-Classic-Wireless-Controller/dp/B01MPZ8QL4/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&qid=1478539963&sr=8-5&keywords=nes+classic+edition&linkCode=ll1&tag=atariage&linkId=e02a0323d0c3c159a0db493f32faf157

 

Wireless might be nice, but those square buttons look like callouses waiting to happen. Oddly, it's a nice (and probably unintentional) homage to the very, very first FC controller, which also had square buttons.

[Flojomojo]

Third-Party controller for NES Classic Edition: https://www.amazon.com/My-Arcade-GamePad-Classic-Wireless-Controller/dp/B01MPZ8QL4/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&qid=1478539963&sr=8-5&keywords=nes+classic+edition&linkCode=ll1&tag=atariage&linkId=e02a0323d0c3c159a0db493f32faf157

 

Wireless might be nice, but those square buttons look like callouses waiting to happen. Oddly, it's a nice (and probably unintentional) homage to the very, very first FC controller, which also had square buttons.

 

That nasty-ass dongle looks like a starfleet shuttle, minus the old-timey crew with a perspective problem in the matte shot.

 

[+GoldenWheels]

Just in case you want to drag it to your buddy's house for Tecmo Bowl tournaments....

 

https://www.amazon.com/Industries-Classic-Carrying-Nintendo-Entertainment-System/dp/B01LYFRCWF/ref=as_li_ss_tl?_encoding=UTF8&ie=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B01LYFRCWF&pd_rd_r=D4KSE6F66QEZH59PKT7T&pd_rd_w=4B7Zr&pd_rd_wg=NLt2o&pf_rd_i=&pf_rd_m=&pf_rd_p=&pf_rd_r=D4KSE6F66QEZH59PKT7T&pf_rd_s=recent-history-footer&pf_rd_t=gateway&psc=1&refRID=D4KSE6F66QEZH59PKT7T&linkCode=ll1&tag=atariage&linkId=00b6eec4b59bd77133d9af974a8e837a

[Keatah]

So essentially, because the NES-mini doesn't come with a CRT included, we're only getting 1/2 the experience? Hogwash! We're getting a better experience.

Edited November 7, 2016 by Keatah

[Keatah]

Both display methods are imperfect. So the solution to remove all distortions is to maintain the signal entirely in the digital domain from data on the ROM which gets processed and manipulated by a CPU until it is output to the display device. You cannot get digital output from vintage hardware because the analog conversion circuits are literally baked in. Instead pure digital transfer to the screen can be achieved in hardware by using an FPGA to simulate the actual logic gates present in the original chips, or by using software emulation to recreate the effect of playing the game.

 

I'll take that for the win!

 

While at present it may not resemble a CRT or be like 100% back in the day, it's permanent and non-degrading. How it looks today is how it will look tomorrow. Can't say that about analog hardware - over the years it ages and falls out of tolerance.

 

Additionally the potential is there to make it look like BITD. Ever see a videoclip of a CRT in action on a modern display? Looks pretty accurate. It's all in the source.

 

[godslabrat]

There are like, three separate CRT-related threads on AA right now. Please take this TV talk there. I don't care where you take your car talk, but this isn't the idea spot. This thread is about the NES Mini.

[Keatah]

Just realize that your opinions on how arcade and console games should be appreciated is exactly that, an opinion, and there are many other ways to appreciate classic games, regardless of whether one chooses to use original media or displays. You are essentially stating that noone has a right to enjoy the games unless they choose to experience them in the same manner that people experienced them 30 years ago. With each passing year, that experience is getting harder and harder to recreate. Also, nostalgia goggles tend to eliminate issues such as poorly maintained arcade games (a huge issue with pinball), flakey and dirty cartridge connectors that refuse to boot without repeated insertion and blowing the connectors, rat chewed RF dongles that display snowy picture, etc...

 

Nintendo wants people to enjoy these games as they remembered them with the nostalgia goggles, and if that means razor sharp pixels on an HD display using modern interconnects, and convenience of save states, so be it. Consumers may not realise it, but they are actually getting a BETTER experience from what was possible bitd. And if you want the HD treatment with real carts, there are also 3rd party solutions for that (AVS, NT Mini, etc...).

 

Over time bio-memory of original games tends to eliminate the fuzzies and CRT distortions and all the annoying things about how we gamed back in the 70's and 80's. And what remains is a sharp square object - whatever it may be.

 

Real hardware + CRT + back in the day + nostalgia goggles

..is the same as..

Modern day emulation or recreation + modern day display + optional CRT effects + high reliability and convenience.

 

And that's a practical philosophy I can get behind.

[Keatah]

There are like, three separate CRT-related threads on AA right now. Please take this TV talk there. I don't care where you take your car talk, but this isn't the idea spot. This thread is about the NES Mini.

 

Maybe there needs to be a sticky thread on Display Technologies. This topic flares up from time to time. And it's only going to happen more and more frequently I fear.

[+save2600]

The very first thing I did when I heard about the Mini, was order an HDMI to composite adapter. Was cheap and looks good testing with a Bluray player.

 

I'll try the Mini's HDMI first on one of my modern TV's, but if it looks like ass and blocks it all up (which I'm fully expecting), I'm prepared to go legacy.

 

-edit-

 

Speaking of Dollar General, went to one today because they had the new Sega portable on sale for $28. Was in an ad of theirs Sunday. Welp, of course the three dingbats working there had no clue what I was talking about and the system was nowhere to be found. Then I tried to dumb it down even further for them and just asked if they had *anything* by Sega or Nintendo. They all acted as if they never heard of either company! You say nobody today knows what a CRT is... bullshit. I bet pennies to prizes those DG employees all have some still in their homes. While many or most of us here still use them to play our games on, they're probably still using them with their cable boxes and HDTV converters. I know a LOT of people who still use CRT's like that around here. They might not refer to them as CRT's per se, but it's what they would call a *regular* TV.

[Keatah]

If it were like that, I'd definitely buy one. Even if you discard #1 I'd still buy one, provided the emulation was transparent enough (which means it would have to be better than any currently-available emulator).

 

It's funny that the emulator has a simulated CRT scanlines option (which is never even remotely convincing), yet no official way to connect it to a real 15 kHz CRT.

 

How many people going to dollar general or wal-mart buying this on a whim or as a cutesy-wootsy stocking stuffer are going to know WTF a 15kHz CRT is? .001% maybe? How many people are going to know what HDMI is? 99.999%!

 

Again this is not a museum reference piece, nor is it a serious replacement for hobbyist setups. This is a very casual party favor and auxiliary gift type thing.

[7800fan]

Just one thing: I wonder how many people would return NES mini because it won't take NES carts? Genesis clone takes cart and this could cause some confusion among people who doesn't read the fine print.

[Flojomojo]

Just one thing: I wonder how many people would return NES mini because it won't take NES carts? Genesis clone takes cart and this could cause some confusion among people who doesn't read the fine print.

 

 

Gosh, none, I hope ... or that the 30 good games that are included will mollify anyone who bought this to play Journey to Silius or something. Along the same lines, I wonder how many people actually put their own cartridges into the AtGames Genesis? Seems to me that if you have a Genesis, you don't need the clone system.

 

Unless you're me, someone who buys this stuff because it's cute and likes to support modern retro gaming.

 

I would assume that anyone with one or more NES cartridges would have an NES to play them on, wouldn't you?

[+save2600]

Nah, I wouldn't assume that any old system would work. Lot's of people hang on to their systems and games, long after the system or its power supply has died. Then purchase replacements years and years later when available and after its cool again to be nostalgic about this stuff.

[MaximRecoil]

The very first thing I did when I heard about the Mini, was order an HDMI to composite adapter. Was cheap and looks good testing with a Bluray player.

 

I'm interested in hearing the results of that. You will no doubt get a picture of some sort, but the question is: is the pillarboxing during gameplay part of the video signal or not? If it's part of the video signal, then you will get "gutterboxing" on your TV, i.e., the NES mini will send the TV an already-pillarboxed 16:9 AR video signal, which will then be letterboxed on a 4:3 TV. If the pillarboxing isn't a part of the video signal, then you will get a letterboxed menu and fullscreen gameplay, which would be perfect.

[+5-11under]

The same goes for other plug-and-play systems. How many can you name that have no means of connecting it to a 15 kHz CRT?

 

If you want to play a console that has RF output on a TV that doesn't support it, you either modify the console or use an adapter to convert the signal.

If you want to play a console that has HDMI output on a TV that doesn't support it, you either modify the console or use an adapter to convert the signal.

 

People have been modifying consoles and using adapters for many years. Some consoles are of course difficult or expensive or possibly impossible to modify in that way, so then your only option is to use an adapter to convert the signal.

 

In the end, though, this is all really about choice. There are plenty of ways to be to play NES games right now. When the Mini comes out, you will have one more choice at your disposal - one more choice than you had before, so really life's good, and there's nothing to really complain about. The Mini even has a CRT mode to mimic the CRT/composite look. Once again, you can choose to enable it or not - more choices than you had before. Could the Mini have been better? Sure it could. It could everything that you want, except it would probably cost more than a Wii U, which would likely be a very unwise business decision.

[+save2600]

I'm interested in hearing the results of that. You will no doubt get a picture of some sort, but the question is: is the pillarboxing during gameplay part of the video signal or not? If it's part of the video signal, then you will get "gutterboxing" on your TV, i.e., the NES mini will send the TV an already-pillarboxed 16:9 AR video signal, which will then be letterboxed on a 4:3 TV. If the pillarboxing isn't a part of the video signal, then you will get a letterboxed menu and fullscreen gameplay, which would be perfect.

I'll be interested too! Wasn't counting on 16:9 output at all, though the first clue might have been the native HDMI out.

[Flojomojo]

In the Flashback thread, there are three chief complaints

 

- imperfect emulation;

- lack of ways to run other games (whether legacy cartridge or ROM via SD cards);

- lack of HDMI output.

 

There are six (!) retro style plug and plays coming out this season.

 

1. Atari flashback 7 (composite AV)

2. Atari Flashback portable (composite AV optional)

3. Sega tv console (composite AV)

4. Sega portable (composite AV optional)

5. Retro bit Generations (analog AND HDMI)

6. Nintendo NES Classic (HDMI only)

 

Bill Logiduice from this board has stated that it's likely that AtGames will (finally) go with a new hardware spec next year, and it' seems likely to me we are at the end of the era of analog plug and plays.

 

The Retro bit is a wild card, but with poor name recognition it's unlikely to set the world on fire.

 

The NES Classic, with its name recognition and beloved games, is getting shloads of attention and will probably outsell the other five products combined.

 

It seems pretty simple to see which way the wind is blowing.

[MaximRecoil]

 

This one has HDMI.

 

Which means they stick you with the "emulator on your PC monitor" look, which sucked even in 1997.

Edited November 7, 2016 by MaximRecoil

[Keatah]

The same goes for other plug-and-play systems. How many can you name that have no means of connecting it to a 15 kHz CRT?

 

I can't say with any level of authority, but I would guess a lot have conventional AV connectivity.

 

Nintendo is very cost-conscious and even, dare-I-say, forward thinking in choosing HDMI only.