PORTABLE JAGUAR

[midwest_cdn]

Anyone ever try to build one?

[TXG/MNX]

Hmm I think it's hard to make one. How do you plan to play games like Ultra Vortek om such thing with special moves?

 

Throwing a console to the opponent???

[midwest_cdn]

me hahaaha hardly , just wondering if it has been tried.The way I figure it, is since it is almost 10 years old, some parts could be replaced with more energy efficent parts.Also i figure with the design, a pro controller would be a better choice, than a standard one.

[TXG/MNX]

me hahaaha hardly , just wondering if it has been tried.The way I figure it, is since it is almost 10 years old, some parts could be replaced with more energy efficent parts.Also i figure with the  design, a pro controller would be a better choice, than a standard one.

 

Man when you could rebuild a Jaguar then that would be exelent...

But I think it's very hard, there isn't even a good emulator for it so lot's of things are unknown about some chips and 'bugs' inside the Jaguar.

Maybe when you want to dig into this first make a good development kit for the Jaguar this way it would be easier to make programs for this console which makes it more interesting to have a new console...

 

TXG/MNX

[Thunderbird]

me hahaaha hardly , just wondering if it has been tried.The way I figure it, is since it is almost 10 years old, some parts could be replaced with more energy efficent parts.Also i figure with the  design, a pro controller would be a better choice, than a standard one.

 

The "parts" that are not energy efficient in the Jaguar are not simply components which you can go out and buy newer versions of that are more efficient. The "parts" are custom designed chips which were only made for the Jaguar.

 

Even if someone had the skills needed to design new versions of these chips that were more efficient, we would still be facing the problem that producing such a chip would cost hundreds of thousands of dollars just for setup costs for each chip.

 

If you were clever, you could probably put Tom and Jerry both on one chip to save costs and space, but that's still hundreds of thousands of dollars.

[TXG/MNX]

me hahaaha hardly , just wondering if it has been tried.The way I figure it, is since it is almost 10 years old, some parts could be replaced with more energy efficent parts.Also i figure with the  design, a pro controller would be a better choice, than a standard one.

 

The "parts" that are not energy efficient in the Jaguar are not simply components which you can go out and buy newer versions of that are more efficient. The "parts" are custom designed chips which were only made for the Jaguar.

 

Even if someone had the skills needed to design new versions of these chips that were more efficient, we would still be facing the problem that producing such a chip would cost hundreds of thousands of dollars just for setup costs for each chip.

 

If you were clever, you could probably put Tom and Jerry both on one chip to save costs and space, but that's still hundreds of thousands of dollars.

 

just 'hundreds of thousands of dollars' I thought it did cost much more...

[Thunderbird]

me hahaaha hardly , just wondering if it has been tried.The way I figure it, is since it is almost 10 years old, some parts could be replaced with more energy efficent parts.Also i figure with the  design, a pro controller would be a better choice, than a standard one.

 

The "parts" that are not energy efficient in the Jaguar are not simply components which you can go out and buy newer versions of that are more efficient. The "parts" are custom designed chips which were only made for the Jaguar.

 

Even if someone had the skills needed to design new versions of these chips that were more efficient, we would still be facing the problem that producing such a chip would cost hundreds of thousands of dollars just for setup costs for each chip.

 

If you were clever, you could probably put Tom and Jerry both on one chip to save costs and space, but that's still hundreds of thousands of dollars.

 

just 'hundreds of thousands of dollars' I thought it did cost much more...

 

It's like $500,000 to get a mask made if you know when the right time of the year is to ask.

[TXG/MNX]

me hahaaha hardly , just wondering if it has been tried.The way I figure it, is since it is almost 10 years old, some parts could be replaced with more energy efficent parts.Also i figure with the  design, a pro controller would be a better choice, than a standard one.

 

The "parts" that are not energy efficient in the Jaguar are not simply components which you can go out and buy newer versions of that are more efficient. The "parts" are custom designed chips which were only made for the Jaguar.

 

Even if someone had the skills needed to design new versions of these chips that were more efficient, we would still be facing the problem that producing such a chip would cost hundreds of thousands of dollars just for setup costs for each chip.

 

If you were clever, you could probably put Tom and Jerry both on one chip to save costs and space, but that's still hundreds of thousands of dollars.

 

just 'hundreds of thousands of dollars' I thought it did cost much more...

 

It's like $500,000 to get a mask made if you know when the right time of the year is to ask.

 

I know that it is expensive just joking....

 

Seriously I don't think there is a market for a re-make of the Jaguar console or it must have the Jaguar 2 specs....

But who is willing to put so much money in the development... (maybe Infogrames when we ask them.... :wink: )

[Stone]

If anyone was going to do anything like this, the best bet would be a PSOne-style thing with a TFT screen and speakers that plug in the back. If you extended the unit along a bit you could plug into the power jack at the same time...I'm not sure how long you could run a Jag off one of the new InfoLithium type batteries; the power supply is supposed to be 12V at 1.2A but I've heard 9V ones work just as well...don't know what the minimum current supplied to it would be to have it work.

 

Even so, you're not going to be able to hack a Jag into a GBA-sized case like with the 2600 - the huge open spaces ont he PCB which were cut off for that just don't exist on the Jag.

 

Stone

[LinkoVitch]

To cut out the massive costs of producing commercial chips I spose you could use the approach of using FPGA chips. There is a guy actually making a 2600 on a single chip using this approach. This isn't the same scope as a whole Jag on a chip, but which would you rather tackle?

 

FPGA's should be up for the job, Acorn used them to develop their ARM CPU's don't think they were as efficient as the final silicon but it still worked.

 

That would rule

 

2 player stuff I guess would involve JagLink style stuff.. or a port on the handheld.

[TheBizDude]

Or you could just go buy a Lynx - nah, too easy. :wink:

[midwest_cdn]

Well I agree thunder about the whole chip thing, you will have to keep.I just figure since you do see these homemade built portable systems(atatri 2600, playstation, nes) why couldnt u use a jag?For scientific purposes, I think I will crack my fried out jag, and have alook inside to see the board.Also Might I add if you had schematics to the board you could almost pinpoint what could be replaced and what is essential , and what could be removed.

[Stone]

Well I agree thunder about the whole chip thing, you will have to keep.I just figure  since you do see these homemade built portable systems(atatri 2600, playstation, nes) why couldnt u use a jag?For scientific purposes, I think I will crack my fried out jag, and have alook inside to see the board.Also Might I add if you had schematics to the board you could almost pinpoint what could be replaced and what  is essential , and what could be removed.

 

I hate to break this to you, but it's all essential. There's just nothing you can remove without breaking *something*. The other consoles you mention have large spaces on them which can be removed, and these just don't happen on the Jag.

 

You could probably cut the whole thing up into 2" squares and then solder link wires between them all wherever you cut any tracks, but this would get rapidly tedious and I sincerely doubt anyone here cares enough. Buy an NGPC instead.

 

Stone

[midwest_cdn]

Check it out.Yeah i do think you could.Mind it the lcd screen would be the kicker.Even if you didnt chop any of the board and left it in original form I think it would be quite possible.Even the controller fiots pretty good good on the backside of the board.

[LinkoVitch]

There may be a few things you could drop from the board. but not a lot. things like.. the LED, controller ports, the AV and modulator stuff. however the memory, the 5 CPU's (over 3 chips) and the 64-bit bus.. gotta keep all that. breaking up a board and rejoing the bus sounds ikky.. spose you could increase the tracklength a fair bit in a jag with wires so you could fold the boards over.. but I wouldn't like to try it.

 

Good luck with it.. I would start simpler if I were you but if you are a challenge seeker I think you have found one

[midwest_cdn]

Number 1 I am not goign to build it, I just thought mayne someone tried. number 2 If i did build it I wouldnt fold the board( to much of a headache.Number 3 You could build something with off the shelf parts.For example the interact mobile monitor, it takes av cables and such.If you wanted truly portable it be very tricky for the power.i think if i DID build one it would just leave the ac adaptor cord exposed and just run it off that.From the size of the case to the actual size of the board, IMHO a controller and a lcd screen could be modified to fit within the case.

[Thunderbird]

To cut out the massive costs of producing commercial chips I spose you could use the approach of using FPGA chips.  There is a guy actually making a 2600 on a single chip using this approach.  This isn't the same scope as a whole Jag on a chip, but which would you rather tackle?

 

FPGA's should be up for the job, Acorn used them to develop their ARM CPU's don't think they were as efficient as the final silicon but it still worked.

 

That would rule

 

2 player stuff I guess would involve JagLink style stuff.. or a port on the handheld.

 

 

I think there would be problems with the propagation delays. Even the new super-fast logic devices don't tend to work well because of propagation delays and race conditions cropping up.

 

Then you also have a heat problem running FPGA chips really fast.

[Thunderbird]

There may be a few things you could drop from the board.  but not a lot.  things like.. the LED, controller ports, the AV and modulator stuff.  however the memory, the 5 CPU's (over 3 chips) and the 64-bit bus.. gotta keep all that.  breaking up a board and rejoing the bus sounds ikky.. spose you could increase the tracklength a fair bit in a jag with wires so you could fold the boards over.. but I wouldn't like to try it.

 

Good luck with it.. I would start simpler if I were you but if  you are a challenge seeker I think you have found one

 

The best bet you have for this approach is to make a new mainboard set for the Jaguar and move all the components from a known good Jag to the new board. You could make a stack of small rectangular boards with the bus running through a stack of connectors.

[LinkoVitch]

To cut out the massive costs of producing commercial chips I spose you could use the approach of using FPGA chips.  There is a guy actually making a 2600 on a single chip using this approach.  This isn't the same scope as a whole Jag on a chip, but which would you rather tackle?

 

FPGA's should be up for the job, Acorn used them to develop their ARM CPU's don't think they were as efficient as the final silicon but it still worked.

 

That would rule

 

2 player stuff I guess would involve JagLink style stuff.. or a port on the handheld.

 

 

I think there would be problems with the propagation delays. Even the new super-fast logic devices don't tend to work well because of propagation delays and race conditions cropping up.

 

Then you also have a heat problem running FPGA chips really fast.

 

I am sure the last lines of the ARM CPU ran at over 33MHz which is faster than the Jag, so FPGA should be able to handle the 25 MHz of the Jag. As I said, not the best soultion for a final product but still a possibility. Since Acorn sold off ARM to Intel several years ago I would guess that FPGA technology has improved so possibly better than what they used.

 

I certainly wouldn't like to try it (well yeah I would.. I just know I would be around 50 before I finished probably )

 

The best bet you have for this approach is to make a new mainboard set for the Jaguar and move all the components from a known good Jag to the new board. You could make a stack of small rectangular boards with the bus running through a stack of connectors.

 

Yeah, good thinking. There is some website about someone that has built a modular system like this. I think there are commercially availible computers that work on this principal (you buy CPU and IO boards and form a tower stack of square boards.) so would deffinately be an option. Coul dsell it as a jigsaw too then

[Punisher5.0]

Anyone ever try to build one?

 

I've been thinking about it for a while now. It can be done relatively easily. The only problem would be the size. I thought about cutting the mother board up but since it's multi-layered that idea went out the window. The power consumption really wouldn't be that big of a problem. The Jaguar only uses 9 watts which is paltry compared to PlayStation.

 

If I had access to a router, I would've made one a long time ago.

[Thunderbird]

I am sure the last lines of the ARM CPU ran at over 33MHz which is faster than the Jag, so FPGA should be able to handle the 25 MHz of the Jag.  As I said, not the best soultion for a final product but still a possibility.  Since Acorn sold off ARM to Intel several years ago I would guess that FPGA technology has improved so possibly better than what they used.

 

The stuff I have read regarding ARM ip cores on FPGAs is that they have to run at a reduced clock rate to achieve full operation. Higher speeds are achieved when some of the complex arithmetic instructions are omitted.

 

You might be able to get the speed up if you split the Jaguar custom chips up into individual FPGAs, so the fitters could have more gates on each chip for optimized routing, but that defeats the purpose of the portable Jag.

[Guest]

hi,

 

let me clear this all up for you guys:

 

EXTREMLY HIGH CHANCE THAT IT CAN BE DONE

 

why? because i have seen psx handhelds, dreamcast handhelds, n64 handhelds. i kid you not.

 

just search for nesP. you know, that portable nes. if you can create portables of snes, psx,dreamcast,n64 why no atari jaguar?

[midwest_cdn]

Hey glad someone else has seen some other home portables made.And punisher 5.0 I would love your input for the power supply problem.After thinking about it, I either do 2 things, use the jag case and modify it.I might have to sacrifice a jag controller and see if I can some how insert the contents in the shell. Also if i did decide to use the case do you think I should use it on the top side, or flip it over?Now looking where the circular part is, it would be pretty sweet for the fold down lcd screen.And no, you dont need to get to technical, It can be built with off the shelf parts.Sometimes the simplist approach is the best.Also, can a jag controller be modfied for both a rotary and directional pad? I figure if I atttempt to build one, I should go full hilt and built one within the unit for my beloved tempest 2k.Anyone got a cheap interact lcd they want to sell me?

[TheBizDude]

Why don't you just take an old 9-13" TV/VCR combo, nix the VCR section, pop in your Jag and call it a day. It'd look kinda like a Vectrex! Seems like an awful lot of bother you're going through. It's still going to need to be plugged into a wall, so it wouldn't be truly portable? The battery would weigh more than the unit itself. "Ladies and gentleman, please refrain from use of cellphones, laptops and portable Jaguars until the captain has turned off the fasten seatbelt light".

[Thunderbird]

hi,

 

let me clear this all up for you guys:

 

EXTREMLY HIGH CHANCE THAT IT CAN BE DONE

 

why? because i have seen psx handhelds, dreamcast handhelds, n64 handhelds. i kid you not.

 

just search for nesP. you know, that portable nes. if you can create portables of snes, psx,dreamcast,n64 why no atari jaguar?

 

Most of those systems you mentioned enjoyed long lifespans and the companies which made them were able to invest the money into cost reducing the designs. Advances in technology provided them the ability to combine many circuits into one chip and save manufacturing costs. The PSOne for example, has a very compact board and has tons less parts than the original Playstation. It's easy to make a handheld out of a system that someone has already spent millions of dollars to reduct the parts count.