7800 vs. XEGS: which would you prefer?

[+pboland]

XEGS Expandability ...at what cost? There were many other, more capable computers by 1988.

True, but as a 13/14 year old kid in 1987 (XEGS came out) that didn't know much about computers other than what I used at school (which was maybe once a quarter) or saw at the store that was in walking distance to my house, the XEGS seemed obtainable/affordable. I didn't know many kids in junior high that had their own computer. If they did it was most likely a C64 or an Atari 800XL. Our schools at the time had either Apple II's (elementary) or Atari 1200XL's (Jr. High). One of my friend's had access to an Amgia 1000, but it was his dad's, not his. He actually had a C64 (which was a hand me down from his dad) next to his NES. I did know of one person at school that had their own Tandy 1000 computer. Back then, taking the step to PC was a big one and most of us had no way to buy one, let along support (buy software) for one.

 

In those days it came down to what I could personally support with my own money. My parents were not going to spend more than $200.00 on any one X-mas gift, so it was up to me to support what ever device I ended up with. Needless to say as a early teen I went the video game route and asked for a SMS for X-mas 1986 (and that was choosing between the Atari 7800, SMS, & NES).

[ubersaurus]

I had a 7800 at the time and only knew of the XEGS from the catalogs that came with it. I didn't know squat about Atari computers until the late 90s.

 

Still don't have an XEGS but I do now have an 800XL... and I'd still go with the 7800 over it. The late 80s library is simply better than the XEGS's, I care more about 2600 compatibility than being able to run the 8-bit computer games, and a two button controller was a big deal at the time.

[Flojomojo]

True, but as a 13/14 year old kid in 1987 (XEGS came out) that didn't know much about computers other than what I used at school (which was maybe once a quarter) or saw at the store that was in walking distance to my house, the XEGS seemed obtainable/affordable. I didn't know many kids in junior high that had their own computer.

 

I suspect much of it comes down to where you were in your life at that time ... I recall seeing it at a KB Toys and dismissing it out of hand as too expensive, not relevant to my needs, and a goofy move for post-crash Atari to make. The XEGS wikipedia article goes out of its way to point out the 1987 launch price of $199 was equivalent to $419.51 in 2016! I was 17 and had an NES that I bought myself (which enjoyed rental and discount games), and access to Macintosh computer labs at the nearby university.

 

I wanted to go looking in Archive.org for some magazine hype about it, but 1987-1988 seems like a dark time for game magazines, without much happening in the United States. Electronic Games Magazine was winding down, and Electronic Gaming Monthly, GamePro, and Nintendo Power wouldn't appear until 1989, at which the Sega Genesis came out. Boom!

 

Does anyone have links to press materials about either system? They're like the lost children of Atari hardware.

[BillLoguidice]

 

I suspect much of it comes down to where you were in your life at that time ... I recall seeing it at a KB Toys and dismissing it out of hand as too expensive, not relevant to my needs, and a goofy move for post-crash Atari to make. The XEGS wikipedia article goes out of its way to point out the 1987 launch price of $199 was equivalent to $419.51 in 2016! I was 17 and had an NES that I bought myself (which enjoyed rental and discount games), and access to Macintosh computer labs at the nearby university.

 

I wanted to go looking in Archive.org for some magazine hype about it, but 1987-1988 seems like a dark time for game magazines, without much happening in the United States. Electronic Games Magazine was winding down, and Electronic Gaming Monthly, GamePro, and Nintendo Power wouldn't appear until 1989, at which the Sega Genesis came out. Boom!

 

Does anyone have links to press materials about either system? They're like the lost children of Atari hardware.

 

Kay-Bee was the primary place I recall seeing XEGS stock back in the day. They also had a regular supply of older (non XEGS, a lot of 400/800 era) Atari 8-bit titles in their clearance bins (these also had the occasional Apple II and C-64 titles, although a good portion of it was that BCI/K-Tek/Tel dreck if I recall correctly).

 

I don't recall seeing any XEGS coverage in magazines. I do recall seeing an occasional 7800 review and ad in magazines like Videogames and Computer Entertainment and what-not, but never anywhere near the same proportion as NES or SMS stuff.

 

The console generation that featured the NES, SMS, 7800, and XEGS was the only one I ever missed out directly participating in (unless you count the original Magnavox Odyssey). Sure, I acquired most of those by the 1990s, but I didn't have any of them in their prime.

 

At the time, I did want an NES, and also wanted an SMS after seeing Zillion on display at an electronics store (that opening where Zillion shot at the viewer was pretty cool), and of course after the introduction of Phantasy Star (the commercials were very compelling). I don't recall paying much mind to the 7800, although I was well aware of its existence and did follow coverage of it fairly closely (usually head-to-head reviews with the NES/SMS). It just didn't seem relevant when browsing the aisles at Toys R Us. All the momentum was in the NES camp, of course, and the SMS was there as an alternate. Rocking a C-64, Atari 2600, and ColecoVision at the time, the XEGS certainly did intrigue me (I had one friend with an Atari 800XL; my area was heavy C-64 with a bit of Apple II), but, truth be told, I would have loved a NES (or SMS a bit later) instead of it. Between a 7800 and XEGS, I suspect I would have went with the XEGS just to get access to the Atari 8-bit stuff.

 

I'm trying to think of my reaction to the original preview of the 7800 in Electronic Games magazine prior to it being shelved. I recall being impressed/excited by it, but I can't recall if I necessarily lusted after it. I was still super happy with the ColecoVision circa 1984 and probably still holding out hope for the laserdisc add-on, etc. By the time of the 7800's wide release a few years later, the US was justifiably in the start of NES mania, and the 7800 line-up seemed old hat in comparison (because it was).

[Inky]

I remember working at TOys R Us when the XEGS came out. I got to work in the electronics "coop", and a family came in and bought the XEGS. I was gushing over how it's expandable into a computer, and damned if the family didn't say "we don't want a computer" and asked for a refund even before I could grab the box!

[+pboland]

I don't recall seeing any XEGS coverage in magazines. I do recall seeing an occasional 7800 review and ad in magazines like Videogames and Computer Entertainment and what-not, but never anywhere near the same proportion as NES or SMS stuff.

 

The console generation that featured the NES, SMS, 7800, and XEGS was the only one I ever missed out directly participating in (unless you count the original Magnavox Odyssey). Sure, I acquired most of those by the 1990s, but I didn't have any of them in their prime.

 

I didn't remember seeing the XEGS in magazines either, but I do remember see the commercial which is how I found out about it.:

 

[Flojomojo]

By the time of the 7800's wide release a few years later, the US was justifiably in the start of NES mania, and the 7800 line-up seemed old hat in comparison (because it was).

I snagged a clearance 7800 for $40 in a mall-based record store like Sam Goody, probably around 1989. It came with Pole Position II in the box. I remember having black-and-white-label versions of Food Fight, Joust, Galaga, and some other old ports at the time. I can't recall if I got them there at the record store, or at Toys R Us at a later time. In any case, I'm sure they were cheap. They were an antidote to the side-scrolling NES and arcade games of the time, and I remember asking my parents to send some VCS games to me in college, too.

 

I didn't remember seeing the XEGS in magazines either, but I do remember see the commercial which is how I found out about it.

 

That's awesome! Only Atari comes with a "real joystick!" Nintendo comes with a toy robot. I see that the "my toy is more sophisticated than yours" argument worked about as well here as it did for Magnavox Odyssey 2 ("The Keyboard is the Key!").

[+darryl1970]

Was it any consolation that the XE had Mario Bros., Donkey Kong, and Donkey Kong Jr.?

Those are three of my favorite games. If I had played the three on each system, I would have DEFINITELY chosen the XE, because each version is better on the A8. The 7800 versions have the worst sound imaginable, the graphics are clunky, the gameplay is way off and sluggish, and it was missing some of the detail from the A8 version.

 

Back in 80's I would have been more inclined to purchase a 7800, because I read the hype on it in 1983. I read how it could display "unlimited" colors and sprites on-screen, without flicker. Of course, it was shelved and didn't get released for another 3 years.

When I saw the horrible game conversions after it was finally released, I was so disappointed. I was SO THANKFUL it was out of stock and I tried the NES that day. (And I am an Atari fan) The sound was a MAJOR nail in the coffin for me. When I compared Super Mario Bros, Ghost N Goblins, Galaga, Ms Pac-Man, etc., I knew I had made the right choice. I was so ashamed of it. C'mon, I even loved my Jaguar!!

 

I can't believe they allowed this flagship system to be crippled without the use of on-cart sound chips. I get the backward compatibility and price point, but that kind of sound -- incomplete octaves and only 2 channes... Unforgivable! Like nails on a chalkboard.

 

Jump ahead to Donkey Kong Pokey, I can see where the 7800 has potential to outshine the A8/5200/XE with helper sound, so I am starting to gain a little respect for its potential.

If I would have seen games like that, I might have been persuaded to get it over the NES.

In my situation, I already had an 800XL, so the XE didn't make sense. The 7800 games didn't look much better than my old 5200/A8 versions. I do not think the XE is very under powered when compared to the 7800. It's still apples/oranges for me to this day.

I would MUCH rather play Centipede 5200, Mario Bros XE, Donkey Kong A8,or DK Junior A8.

 

As much as I loved the Analog Controls (when they worked), if Atari had released the 5200 as the XE game system, what a punch in the gut Donkey Kong would have been to the ColecoVision.. lol.

On the other hand, we would have missed out on a perfect version of Centipede, better Dig Dug than A8 origina, Pac-Man with intermissions & better gameplay, etc.

[BassGuitari]

That's awesome! Only Atari comes with a "real joystick!" Nintendo comes with a toy robot. I see that the "my toy is more sophisticated than yours" argument worked about as well here as it did for Magnavox Odyssey 2 ("The Keyboard is the Key!").

Atari really whiffed on those ads, IMO. Instead of firing back at the ROB with "Oh yeah? Well, with our keyboard you can play FLIGHT SIMULATOR II! Look at this shit! It's blowing your mind and you don't even KNOW it!", they should have gone with something like "Toy robot, that's pretty neat. With our keyboard you can program your own frickin' games. AND control robots." Hindsight, you know.

 

The "computer game" angle is interesting to me because the XEGS and 7800 seemed to be stepping on each others' toes in that regard. Wasn't one of the big talking points about the 7800 that it played computer games? That's mostly what the Super Game titles were, like Impossible Mission, Karateka, Winter Games, etc. Even after Atari stopped with the Super Game thing, there were still titles like Ace of Aces and Mean 18. And then the XEGS comes along around the same time and is literally a computer that plays hundreds of extant computer games. And some of them even came out on both systems but the 7800 versions were supposed to be better, I dunno. The whole thing was very confused. Instead of being solutions to the Nintendo or Master System, it's like the 7800 and XEGS were solutions to each other.

 

And speaking of cross-platform releases, there were a lot, at least from the XE perspective: Aces of Aces, Ballblazer, Barnyard Blaster, Choplifter, Crossbow, Dark Chambers, Desert Falcon, Donkey Kong (and Jr. if you count the XE-style cart reissue), Fight Night, Food Fight, Karateka, Mario Bros., One-On-One, Summer Games. That's almost half of the XEGS library that also came out on the 7800, not including the extensive 400/800/XL back catalog, of course. In some cases the XE versions are better, and in some cases not, but if I'm just a dumb kid looking at the 7800 and XEGS games at the store and half of them are the same games (with a bunch of those also appearing in 2600 form!), I'm probably scratching my head a little bit.

 

Granted, there was also a lot of cross-pollination on the 2600, but at least the differences between the 2600 and 7800 or XEGS versions of games were night and day. And the 2600 was an ancient bargain-bin system by now anyway, so if I was in that market, the fact the 2600 was still getting new games like Desert Falcon and Dark Chambers would have been pretty cool. Much like the "N64 games" I had for my GBC when I couldn't get an actual N64.

Edited January 5, 2017 by BassGuitari

[Flojomojo]

You've stoked my interest ...I will need to set up Altirra and give this goofy system a try sometime. I wonder if I can make that flight simulator do more than two frames per second?

[BassGuitari]

I wonder if I can make that flight simulator do more than two frames per second?

The bigger question is: Why would you play Flight Simulator II?

[+save2600]

...old flight sim games - talk about a genre that hasn't aged well!

 

[+davidcalgary29]

I had a 7800 at the time and only knew of the XEGS from the catalogs that came with it. I didn't know squat about Atari computers until the late 90s.

 

Still don't have an XEGS but I do now have an 800XL... and I'd still go with the 7800 over it. The late 80s library is simply better than the XEGS's, I care more about 2600 compatibility than being able to run the 8-bit computer games, and a two button controller was a big deal at the time.

I don't follow; the XEGS library was released in and after '87. Isn't that late '80s? Notably, most titles available for both systems are pretty much comparable in quality despite the noted defeciencies in A8 gfx by that date, so I can't agree that a strict comparison reveals a 'winner' (Jinks, a terrible game on any system, is 'better' on the XE; Mean 18 is unplayable on it). Almost all of the XEGS library is excellent -- I'd suggest giving it a go if you haven't.

[mbd30]

If I already had an Atari 2600, I would go with the XEGS. The 7800 library is weak, but the backwards compatibility with 2600 games is something to consider.

[BassGuitari]

The 7800 games didn't look much better than my old 5200/A8 versions. I do not think the XE is very under powered when compared to the 7800. It's still apples/oranges for me

That's one thing that's so interesting to me about this lineage of consoles. For quite a while in my collecting career (if that's an appropriate term for it?), I didn't really pay much attention to the 7800. It struck me as being like a 2600 with suped-up graphics and not meaningfully more advanced than the Atari 5200, and aurally it was actually worse. And the fact that people usually cited 2600 compatibility first and foremost as its best feature didn't speak well of its own software. Against retro systems like the 2600, Odyssey, Intellivision, 5200, Coleco, Nintendo, and Genesis it seemed like the odd man out, and in a lot of ways it is, but that's also why I eventually came around.

 

At the same time, in my earlier days of collecting, the XEGS didn't make a lot of sense to me, either (in fact it still doesn't, but I love it anyway!). It was a belated, oddly-designed retread of the old 400/800 hardware that certainly wasn't up to going toe-to-toe with Nintendo, which was what Atari was trying to do with it (for some reason...while they already had the 7800...and the 65XE computer... ). And just as the 7800 didn't represent an appreciable leap over the 5200 in my mind, the XEGS was close enough to the 7800 that it seemed to undercut the whole point of the 7800 (which I guess isn't the XE's fault--the 7800 should have been better). And I had a 5200, and maybe even an 800XL at that time anyway, so I didn't see a reason to hunt one down.

 

So both systems just seemed kind of weird, pointless, or just non-essential to me, and I stuck to collecting 2600, 5200, Intellivision, NES, and Odyssey 2 stuff. But although some of my old impressions still hold (chiefly: the 7800 is not a marked step up from the 5200), I saw the light eventually.

 

Earlier I remarked that the 7800 and XEGS effectively were solutions to each other rather than to outside competition, and I really think it's true in the sense that they sort of fill each others' gaps. The 7800 has better graphics, but the XE has better sound. The 7800 is 2600-compatible, the XE is XL-compatible. The 7800 has the arcade classics, the XE has the computer classics. The 7800 is a thoroughbred games machine, the XE expands into a computer system.

 

This is why I asked "Which would you prefer?" rather than "Which is better?" because I don't think there's really an answer to that. If you tally up all their individual attributes, I think the 7800 and XEGS come out just about even. They're just trade-offs from each other.

 

 

Edited January 5, 2017 by BassGuitari

[spacecadet]

At the same time, in my earlier days of collecting, the XEGS didn't make a lot of sense to me, either (in fact it still doesn't, but I love it anyway!). It was a belated, oddly-designed retread of the old 400/800 hardware that certainly wasn't up to going toe-to-toe with Nintendo, which was what Atari was trying to do with it (for some reason...while they already had the 7800...and the 65XE computer... ). And just as the 7800 didn't represent an appreciable leap over the 5200 in my mind, the XEGS was close enough to the 7800 that it seemed to undercut the whole point of the 7800 (which I guess isn't the XE's fault--the 7800 should have been better). And I had a 5200, and maybe even an 800XL at that time anyway, so I didn't see a reason to hunt one down.

 

Well obviously a lot of consumers at the time agreed with you

 

I feel like both systems were basically just Atari looking at what they had and saying "hey, let's repackage that, throw it out there, call it 'new!' and see what happens". I think they saw what was happening with the NES and were caught a bit flat footed, then tried to ride the new wave with old hardware, really in both cases.

 

I don't think most people took either system very seriously. I don't remember them even being part of the conversation when I was in high school or college. The question was always "do you have an NES?" and if the answer was no, the followup in 1987 or 88 was "well, which are you going to get, an NES or a Master System?" The 7800 was kind of an also-ran, and the XEGS was just so far in the background that I'm still having trouble really remembering exactly how I thought about it. Though I do have a vague recollection of kind of smirking at it the first time I saw one, probably the way people did when they saw the Majesco-made Genesis 3. I think that's sort of what it felt like; it was a bit retro even when first launched, and I think it didn't really feel like a "real" game console. It felt like some third party tribute or cash-in or something.

 

I know I was fully into computer gaming at that point, even though I had an NES, and I knew about the Atari ST, which probably made it even harder to take the XEGS seriously. Things feel different when something's really "vintage" and can be judged in a total vacuum, but when a system's only one generation behind, it just feels obsolete. Like, why would you suddenly start buying and playing PS3 games again now that the PS4 has been on the market for 3 years? I think that's what the XEGS felt like. The 7800 felt a little more current-gen, but it was kind of like the Wii U of that generation. Less powerful than the direct competition, and not enough game support.

[Flojomojo]

So both systems just seemed kind of weird, pointless, or just non-essential

I think that's ALL games, and retro computers in general. And now you've got me all hyped about the XEGS (and by extension, the 8-bits). I never quite realized or appreciated how much cartridge software there was for these systems, in addition to all the tape stuff. I'm looking forward to farting around with this bananas collection of 800 software which I assume contains the XEGS library.

[akator]

I'm in agreement with the others who would have picked the 7800 back then but the XEGS now.

[DesertJets]

Back then, as a 7 or 8 year old with too much time to drool over the Sears wishbook wanted the XEGS. Simply because of Flight Simulator.... even though we already had that for our PC at the time. Later on when I did eventually get into retro gaming and got an XEGS, Flight Simulator didn't really have that appeal any longer.

 

I really really liked the XEGS and REALLY regret parting with it now when I downsized my collection. Of my collect I kept the 7800 for my Atari needs. If I did it again I would have kept the XEGS and sent the 7800 to a new home. So yeah XEGS all the way today and back then.

[8th lutz]

I was with my dad at Toys R Us back in January of 1988 for getting video game system and picking a game out. While I got a 2600 Jr. at the time, the Atari 7800 was my 2nd choice. If I had to do it over again, I would say a 7800 since a got the system for Christmas in 1989. If I were an Adult back than, I would Atari 7800.

 

If I was an adult at the time for a computer, The XEGS is would be out of the question. The problem is the XEGS from a technology standpoint was outdated. The best way to put it is, I knew stores growing up that had more advanced computers back in the 1980's and games.

 

 

I looked the XEGS, but I wasn't interested for multiple reasons.

1.) My younger brother and I had Atari 2600 games, but had an Intellivision 2 with a Super Charger.

2.) I only was in 3rd grade back in January of 1988 and my dad wasn't going to spend the money for a XEGS. My dad said was too expensive. The best way to put it there was a lot of expenses plus my parents later in the year bought my younger brother and I a television to play video games. I think any 3rd or 4th grade student in 1988 would be happy to get their own television set instead of using the front room television set that is for the entire family.

3.) My dad and I thought it might be a computer due to the keyboard. I was guessing at the time since the grade school I went to had a computer room. My parents didn't want computer for the family in 1988 .

Edited January 5, 2017 by 8th lutz

[Flojomojo]

The bigger question is: Why would you play Flight Simulator II?

 

Because it was in that dorky commercial, of course!

[Flojomojo]

Back then, as a 7 or 8 year old with too much time to drool over the Sears wishbook wanted the XEGS. Simply because of Flight Simulator.... even though we already had that for our PC at the time.

Oooh, aaah! I guess I was past the Sears Wishbook stage by 1987, but that was definitely something I did when younger.

 

[+save2600]

...Another Atari "Breakthrough". By 1987? hell no! lol

 

Had an Amiga, C64 and NES w/ R.O.B. by then and my brother had a SMS. Already sold or traded my Atari 400 2-3 years before that.

 

The commercial above showing off Bug Hunt is hilarious too. Monochrome green light gun game... yeah, that almost compared to Duck Hunt or Hogans Alley. Not! Another reason I would have gone for the 7800 instead of the XEGS. Better light gun games with better graphics that were in full color to boot!

 

7800 really should have had its own light phaser, styled after the system itself. Black and silver would have been slick! Why Atari choose to produce 7800 gun games, but treat the peripheral as some kind of second rate afterthought is beyond me. We're marketing said games for play on the 7800, but purchase our hard to find (sold separately) XE gun if you want to play them. WTF was that all about? Cost savings I know, but as stupid as stupid gets, even for Atari. Somebody probably and arrogantly assumed a "good" Atari customer would have both systems in the same household, so no big deal dragging your gray XEGS light gun over to your 7800 for some Barnyard Blasting action.

[BassGuitari]

...Another Atari "Breakthrough". By 1987? hell no! lol

 

Had an Amiga, C64 and NES w/ R.O.B. by then and my brother had a SMS. Already sold or traded my Atari 400 2-3 years before that.

 

The commercial above showing off Bug Hunt is hilarious too. Monochrome green light gun game... yeah, that almost compared to Duck Hunt or Hogans Alley. Not! Another reason I would have gone for the 7800 instead of the XEGS. Better light gun games with better graphics that were in full color to boot!

 

7800 really should have had its own light phaser, styled after the system itself. Black and silver would have been slick! Why Atari choose to produce 7800 gun games, but treat the peripheral as some kind of second rate afterthought is beyond me. We're marketing said games for play on the 7800, but purchase our hard to find (sold separately) XE gun if you want to play them. WTF was that all about? Cost savings I know, but as stupid as stupid gets, even for Atari. Somebody probably and arrogantly assumed a "good" Atari customer would have both systems in the same household, so no big deal dragging your gray XEGS light gun over to your 7800 for some Barnyard Blasting action.

Yeah, the limited colors in certain games are strange. Bug Hunt's got that "greenscale" thing going on, and offhand Midnight Magic and Lode Runner have this garish green + pink color scheme (and basically no sounds...). Most of the other games seem to have more complete palettes, at least. But Bug Hunt was not a good title to lead with.

 

Loose light guns turn up so infrequently that for a long time I thought they only came with the XEGS. For years I don't think I'd ever even heard of any 7800 owners who had one BITD, or any 2600 holdouts who got one for Sentinel. It was really odd to me that Atari would release gun games for these systems and then either not sell the gun, or force you to buy an XEGS just to get one. Turns out that wasn't actually the case, but I gather it may as well have been.

 

As an aside, it drives me crazy that the sides of the XE console and keyboard don't line up. It throws off the form factor and the whole thing looks unwieldy and awkward. I prefer to think of the keyboard as a big controller. Which reminds me, I need to get a DB15 extension cord so I can use the keyboard from a comfortable distance (like my couch!) and also preserve the tight look of the console.

Edited January 6, 2017 by BassGuitari

[Flojomojo]

I played around with Altirra a little bit instead of sleeping last night. There's some good stuff here, and it's game-console simple, which is fun. It will be difficult for me to focus on work today...

 

Re light guns

I was wondering if the NES Zapper could be converted to work as an XG1 light gun. I suspect it could, if anyone cared enough. I found some simple instructions for adapting a Sega Master System light gun for use with the XEGS and 7800.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/133fsb.wordpress.com/2010/05/08/sega-light-phaser-to-atari-xg-1-adapter/amp/

 

Light guns are like the full motion video games of the CD-ROM era. Everyone made them, some were kind of okay then, but now they're dated like acid-washed jeans. I suspect 2016's VR games will be remembered in similar ways in the future.