Retroblox

[Flojomojo]

You guys are such haters. I thought this was the thread for crapping on Retroblox/Polymega, not RetroArch.

 

Libretro may have a crappy, inscrutable UI, they may have trouble scaling and supporting lots of different platforms, and their public face may be shrill and obnoxious, but they have delivered a good product, and they have stuck to their high-minded ideals. They've been talking about a retro box for a long time, so I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for their hardware to drop, but I think they have a point -- closed sytems are bad and putting monetization above preservation is worse.

 

BTW that iOS control photoshopped to look like the "official" Polymega announcement is pretty rich. My guess is that this is a marketing project for school, not a bonafide startup.

[Keatah]

hehe, lets put Reatroarch for free because is the right thing to do. So people can pirate other's IPs and play for free! You know, because is the right thing to do lol.

 

I think they're talking about subverting something free into a vehicle to promote a paid subscription service. Any subscription emulation box is just so lame. I hope it fails.

[Keatah]

Libretro may have a crappy, inscrutable UI, they may have trouble scaling and supporting lots of different platforms, and their public face may be shrill and obnoxious, but they have delivered a good product, and they have stuck to their high-minded ideals. They've been talking about a retro box for a long time, so I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for their hardware to drop, but I think they have a point -- closed sytems are bad and putting monetization above preservation is worse.

 

I don't think preservation enters into the picture at all. Even mame isn't preservation, not like the full monty a museum would do. Anything remotely resembling preservation is going to include source code.

[Keatah]

BTW that iOS control photoshopped to look like the "official" Polymega announcement is pretty rich. My guess is that this is a marketing project for school, not a bonafide startup.

 

I don't care enough to debate whether it is a school project. I'm just here to shoot my trap off. But yah, I've seen school projects like this actually assigned and requiring full engagement of the internet through social media.

[godslabrat]

 

I don't care enough to debate whether it is a school project. I'm just here to shoot my trap off. But yah, I've seen school projects like this actually assigned and requiring full engagement of the internet through social media.

The frequent twitter updates, compared to their ghost town of a web forum, make this theory interesting.

[enoofu]

 

hehe, lets put Reatroarch for free because is the right thing to do. So people can pirate other's IPs and play for free! You know, because is the right thing to do lol.

Believe their is some fact in what they are saying as fpga programming is in a confusing state of how laws apply to them especially copyright law or if the programming is copyright-able

Since, languages like them mainly been used in making Patent-able products such as microchips and simulated PCB's and its been only lately that normal people could afford them so laws and court ruling haven't really caught up

[mr_me]

Software emulators are certainly copyrightable but alot of people making these emulators are making them free open source. This allows anyone making an emulator system like Retroarch/Libretro access to emulators and leveraging others work. It allows emulator developers to build off of others work and improve emulation. This is good for everyone. It even allows commercialization for those that want to go that route.

 

I could be wrong but FPGA hardware emulation development appears to be the opposite. FPGA developers are not making their work freely available. This restricts availability of FPGA systems for everyone. For example someone has an Intellivision FPGA developed but hasn't been able to put it in a product. Someone else wants to make an Intellivision FPGA system but has to "reinvent the wheel" and develop one from scratch. Building off of others work could result in better FPGA emulation.

 

from http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1spvhu2

 

...

Without naming any names and without singling anybody out, most of these guys are relying on basic FPGA smoke and mirrors to disguise the fact that it's simply the same thing millions of other people have already peddled.

....

Who are they talking about here? The Analogue NT Mini is not smoke and mirrors. They must be talking about some FPGA machine that is not true FPGA hardware emulation. The Retroarch/Libretro system is dependent on others' software emulators; usually freely available open source software emulators. I don't know if they developed any software emulators themselves; but if they wanted to do the same thing with FPGA hardware emulation they don't have similar access to the cores.

Edited June 23, 2017 by mr_me

[Flojomojo]

Who are they talking about here?

 

Heh heh, when you put it that way, they almost sound like the "DO NOT BE FOOLED" idiocy of modern COLECO.

 

I don't know who they're railing against, either.

[elmer]

Who are they talking about here? The Analogue NT Mini is not smoke and mirrors. They must be talking about some FPGA machine that is not true FPGA hardware emulation. The Retroarch/Libretro system is dependent on others' software emulators; usually freely available open source software emulators. I don't know if they developed any software emulators themselves; but if they wanted to do the same thing with FPGA hardware emulation they don't have similar access to the cores.

It looks pretty much as though they're talking about things like the RetroFreak and Poly-Retro-Mega-Blox here.

 

Consoles that have real hardware cartridge slots, and make it look like you're running on a some semi-real old-fashioned console, but ... you're not.

 

We don't know *exactly* what the MEGA-POLLY's "Hybrid Emulation" is, but it's pretty clear from what they've said already that it is software-emulation, like RetroArch/libretro, but just tied up with some way of reading the physical cartridge.

 

Kevtris doesn't believe that they could get the timings right for that on a pure ARM chip, but it shouldn't take much more than a small FPGA to simulate the original machine's bus cycle and then pass on the data to the ARM CPU.

 

After all, that's exactly what the RetroFreak does ... it just doesn't do it while running the console emulator at the same time.

 

So ... there's an FPGA in there, that can be referred to for marketing purposes to make it sound new-fangled and wonderful, but it's really just a traditional software emulator that does all the real work.

[godslabrat]

It looks pretty much as though they're talking about things like the RetroFreak and Poly-Retro-Mega-Blox here.Consoles that have real hardware cartridge slots, and make it look like you're running on a some semi-real old-fashioned console, but ... you're not.We don't know *exactly* what the MEGA-POLLY's "Hybrid Emulation" is, but it's pretty clear from what they've said already that it is software-emulation, like RetroArch/libretro, but just tied up with some way of reading the physical cartridge.Kevtris doesn't believe that they could get the timings right for that on a pure ARM chip, but it shouldn't take much more than a small FPGA to simulate the original machine's bus cycle and then pass on the data to the ARM CPU.After all, that's exactly what the RetroFreak does ... it just doesn't do it while running the console emulator at the same time.So ... there's an FPGA in there, that can be referred to for marketing purposes to make it sound new-fangled and wonderful, but it's really just a traditional software emulator that does all the real work.

All well and good, but at the end of the day, does it run the Super Game Boy, as they've promised, or flashcarts? Because the "how" is less important than living up to these huge claims.

 

Of course, some actual details wouldn't hurt either, but so far, all they're willing to share are hopes, dreams, and ball-blowingly awesome renders.

[mr_me]

It looks pretty much as though they're talking about things like the RetroFreak and Poly-Retro-Mega-Blox here.Consoles that have real hardware cartridge slots, and make it look like you're running on a some semi-real old-fashioned console, but ... you're not.We don't know *exactly* what the MEGA-POLLY's "Hybrid Emulation" is, but it's pretty clear from what they've said already that it is software-emulation, like RetroArch/libretro, but just tied up with some way of reading the physical cartridge.Kevtris doesn't believe that they could get the timings right for that on a pure ARM chip, but it shouldn't take much more than a small FPGA to simulate the original machine's bus cycle and then pass on the data to the ARM CPU.After all, that's exactly what the RetroFreak does ... it just doesn't do it while running the console emulator at the same time.So ... there's an FPGA in there, that can be referred to for marketing purposes to make it sound new-fangled and wonderful, but it's really just a traditional software emulator that does all the real work.

Okay, I appreciate all that but I don't think either the RetroFreak or Polymega describes their systen as having any sort of FPGA. The Retroarch/Libretro guys seem to have issue with FPGA, maybe its because they don't have access to FPGA cores like they do with software emulation. There is no guarantee that an FPGA system is better than software emulation but ultimately FPGA hardware emulation should be the best solution to these types of systems.

 

All well and good, but at the end of the day, does it run the Super Game Boy, as they've promised, or flashcarts? Because the "how" is less important than living up to these huge claims.

 

Of course, some actual details wouldn't hurt either, but so far, all they're willing to share are hopes, dreams, and ball-blowingly awesome renders.

Why would it need to support flashcarts when you can play the same files from an sd card. Edited June 23, 2017 by mr_me

[elmer]

All well and good, but at the end of the day, does it run the Super Game Boy, as they've promised, or flashcarts? Because the "how" is less important than living up to these huge claims.

Absolutely! All the MEGA-POLLY folks have done so far is basically talk-up a dream ... a bit like the Shop Owner in Monty Python's Parrot sketch.

 

We all agree on that.

 

I thought that we were just taking a slight topic-detour into trying to figure out what-on-earth the libretro guys are ranting about now.

[Keatah]

Well they're ranting about someone but do not have the balls to say who. They like hiding behind their internet modems.

[enoofu]

Okay, I appreciate all that but I don't think either the RetroFreak or Polymega describes their systen as having any sort of FPGA. The Retroarch/Libretro guys seem to have issue with FPGA, maybe its because they don't have access to FPGA cores like they do with software emulation. There is no guarantee that an FPGA system is better than software emulation but ultimately FPGA hardware emulation should be the best solution to these types of systems.

 

Why would it need to support flashcarts when you can play the same files from an sd card.

Believe Retroarch/Libretro issue is that FPGA Cores for game system is that they maybe Pirated IP

 

Since FPGA or some other logical hardware system has been used in designing ASIC chips and PCB's since the late 1980's so their is no way they aren't basically reconstructing the hardware source code violating 'Maybe' Copyright law

 

That the actual chip/pcb owners aren't receiving their fair share of royalties from these sales.

 

Retroarch/Libretro then goes off rambling on about sharing and that they are all greedy

[godslabrat]

Okay, I appreciate all that but I don't think either the RetroFreak or Polymega describes their systen as having any sort of FPGA. The Retroarch/Libretro guys seem to have issue with FPGA, maybe its because they don't have access to FPGA cores like they do with software emulation. There is no guarantee that an FPGA system is better than software emulation but ultimately FPGA hardware emulation should be the best solution to these types of systems.

Why would it need to support flashcarts when you can play the same files from an sd card.

Because the PolyMega folks themselves have said that their system will support these gadgets, and they have to live up to their own word.

[Andromeda Stardust]

All well and good, but at the end of the day, does it run the Super Game Boy, as they've promised, or flashcarts? Because the "how" is less important than living up to these huge claims.

 

Of course, some actual details wouldn't hurt either, but so far, all they're willing to share are hopes, dreams, and ball-blowingly awesome renders.

Super Gameboy or they can STFU. Run Space Invaders GB (not the GBC version) on it and enter arcade mode. It has an SNES ROM embedded in it.

 

No emulator I'm aware of can replicate this effect, and AFAIK it is impossible to "dump" Game Boy ROMs through a Super Game Boy connected to the SNES cartridge slot.

 

Ditto for Retron77. When the new Draconian 2600 homebrew comes out, insert cart and play it. You need Stella version 5.0.x or higher to play, but an Atari that supports bus level access in hardware should run it without issue.

[kevtris]

Software emulators are certainly copyrightable but alot of people making these emulators are making them free open source. This allows anyone making an emulator system like Retroarch/Libretro access to emulators and leveraging others work. It allows emulator developers to build off of others work and improve emulation. This is good for everyone. It even allows commercialization for those that want to go that route.

 

I could be wrong but FPGA hardware emulation development appears to be the opposite. FPGA developers are not making their work freely available. This restricts availability of FPGA systems for everyone. For example someone has an Intellivision FPGA developed but hasn't been able to put it in a product. Someone else wants to make an Intellivision FPGA system but has to "reinvent the wheel" and develop one from scratch. Building off of others work could result in better FPGA emulation.

 

from http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1spvhu2

Who are they talking about here? The Analogue NT Mini is not smoke and mirrors. They must be talking about some FPGA machine that is not true FPGA hardware emulation. The Retroarch/Libretro system is dependent on others' software emulators; usually freely available open source software emulators. I don't know if they developed any software emulators themselves; but if they wanted to do the same thing with FPGA hardware emulation they don't have similar access to the cores.

Probably because the FPGA version is so much harder to write, and it will only work on the hardware it was designed for. It is possible to port FPGA code from one board to another but depending on the hardware used, it could be tricky to impossible if the new hardware doesn't have the same set of memory or whatever that it needs.

 

Is that my FPGA INTV core? I only haven't been able to put it "into a product" due to a lack of time. It's finished and should be portable to the nt mini. Just had other fish to fry so I haven't been able to do it. I ran out of time for that stuff earlier in the year and it will be next year at least until I have said time unfortunately.

[mr_me]

Sorry about that. And there is nothing wrong with closed source projects; they can be of the highest quality. I was just trying to figure out the retroarch/libretro post.

[godslabrat]

 

So, not only are they breaking entirely new ground on emulation and hardware cloning, but they're re-writing the cover art database from scratch. Because they just have so much spare time after writing all their own emulators and CD BIOSes.

 

Coming up next: Peace in the Middle East, Cold Fusion, and ice cream that makes you skinny.

[cybercylon]

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.gstatic.com/tv/thumb/tvbanners/463983/p463983_b_v8_ac.jpg&imgrefurl=http://google.com/search%3Ftbm%3Disch%26q%3DPie%2520in%2520the%2520Sky&h=1440&w=960&tbnid=K4HwTQwE0ioE4M:&tbnh=160&tbnw=106&usg=__9nKbsYwNDO7jZeZJHmt16whF__M=&vet=10ahUKEwjQvrKxttzUAhUBMz4KHZV8D0oQ_B0IfzAK..i&docid=tDync99G4Z4slM&itg=1&client=safari&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjQvrKxttzUAhUBMz4KHZV8D0oQ_B0IfzAK

[Andromeda Stardust]

r-blo2.PNG

 

So, not only are they breaking entirely new ground on emulation and hardware cloning, but they're re-writing the cover art database from scratch. Because they just have so much spare time after writing all their own emulators and CD BIOSes.

 

Coming up next: Peace in the Middle East, Cold Fusion, and ice cream that makes you skinny.

The more and more I hear about this, the more it's starting to look like Chameleon 2.0. These guys are putting the cart before the horse, polishing the boxart database before getting their emulation / cart dumpers and other more pertinent aspects perfected. This database is literally the last thing they should put effort into, after everything else is 100% finished.

[godslabrat]

 

"We'll just instruct our staff to produce bug-free databases. SIMPLE AS THAT!"

 

 

Seems that, even on their home turf the natives are getting weary of the smoke and mirrors.

[Tusecsy]

wtf writes like that "our experience with most of the existing repositories for game assets"....you mean bad scans or pictures? what on earth are they even talking about. you're going to have some intern scan 8000 mint games which you have obtained from source x? and now they are your "assets"...you mean copyrighted content from game publishers?

Edited June 27, 2017 by Tusecsy

[Flojomojo]

wtf writes like that "our experience with most of the existing repositories for game assets"....you mean bad scans or pictures? what on earth are they even talking about. you're going to have some intern scan 8000 mint games which you have obtained from source x? and now they are your "assets"...you mean copyrighted content from game publishers?

It's easy when you're just writing gobbledegook for your college marketing class. I'm reminded of the Chameleon cartoon that said, "Yeah, sure, it will do that, whatever. Just buy it."

[Newsdee]

There are several good open-source FPGA projects out there. Unfortunately the technology gets a bad rep due to it sounding like pie in the sky from marketing drones who don't understand it (and still throw the name out there), the fact that most projects are closed source so once they stop they are gone for good, and more than one cash grab where somebody took open code and pass it as their own for a product.

 

Fortunately there are people interested in changing that although progress is slow. There are at least 40 to 50 cores out there on various systems between the ZxUno and the MiST, all open source for anybody to contribute.

 

The thing to bear in mind is that each core is really an independent project. Thanks to foft many boards have an excellent Atari 800/5200 core, for example.

 

Here's a link to many projects:

https://github.com/mist-devel/mist-board/wiki/CoreStatus

Edited June 28, 2017 by Newsdee