Keatah Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 Problem is if I want to experience all those cores I'd need to buy specialized hardware for each. And so would everyone else. With software emu, we all have the hardware already. Well that's obvious, but it's a huge factor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godslabrat Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 Yeah, they've been totally on top of answering all questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newsdee Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 (edited) Problem is if I want to experience all those cores I'd need to buy specialized hardware for each. And so would everyone else. With software emu, we all have the hardware already. Well that's obvious, but it's a huge factor. The hardware is converging. MiST itself has 30 cores and succesor devices shouldn't need a lot of porting once a few are done to show how. In fact this upgrade already started with a 110K LE FPGA board (Terasic DE10 Nano) thats relatively cheap at $130 ($90 for education). Edited June 28, 2017 by Newsdee 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 I don't know if we need convergence into one board or board family. Or if we need to make the cores work on more of a variety of hardware. Or be able to convert them relatively easily. A "problem" is the FPGA industry and educational board makers don't really care about videogame emulation Convergence might not be a good thing long term because if a board or chip goes out of production or gets revised, all the cores need to be patched or re-written. An emulation example: I can run the first versions of MAME or DASarcade from the 1990's on a 2017 model-year computer. Not sure FPGA's are gonna be able to boast that sort longevity. Not that I care about early mame other than a dab of nostalgia or for true historical reasons. X86 is pretty stable and backward compatible. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercylon Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 IMG_5278.PNG Yeah, they've been totally on top of answering all questions. How about showing some real hardware? I am sure that is a FAQ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_me Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 FPGA is hardware not software, which is the point. If you are happy with software emulation than no need for fpga. It is already possible to have many different fpga cores on one piece of hardware (eg. analogue nt mini, mist). With an fpga system there is no computer operating system that forces it to be updated for compatibility. For example there are lots of dead emulation projects that may not run on future operating systems. But an fpga machine will never have that problem. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 FPGA is only part hardware. The cores.. The descriptions.. Which are software, are only as good as the effort that goes into them. Just like traditional software emulation. Emulation seems to provide its own "in-house" way of running older versions on modern hardware. The Activision Action Packs (early commercial VCS emulator) can be run on a modern-day Windows machine through virtualization of Windows 3.1. Changing your computer's operating system is akin to swapping out the FPGA chip. Both will cause incompatibilities. But the emulation camp can provide work-arounds in some cases. There are many FPGA cores no longer being developed which are incompatible with the hardware that's on the market today. Software emulation is going to have far more failed and abandoned projects. And that's simply because there are thousands more developers working on them. The good projects have a way of becoming known anyway. So it doesn't really matter. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newsdee Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 There are many FPGA cores no longer being developed which are incompatible with the hardware that's on the market today.That's only the case for closed source cores, which highlights why we need open source initiatives. The current c64 core is from the C-One project, Amiga core is from Minimig, MSX from 1chipMSX, etc. Porting a core is often just a pin reassignment and recompilation. There are harder cases where e.g. you don't have the same type of RAM or same number of independent RAM banks, but the MiST already "nornalized" it by having only one SDRAM chip. So porting that version is simpler. I'll grant you this is a very niche cutting edge approach, but it has me much more excited than the plethora of Yet Another Emulation Boxes we're seeing recently. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 but it has me much more excited than the plethora of Yet Another Emulation Boxes we're seeing recently. but YAEBs man. Wow! They everywhere now... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 I'll grant you this is a very niche cutting edge approach, but it has me much more excited than the plethora of Yet Another Emulation Boxes we're seeing recently. but YAEBs man. Wow! They everywhere now... I've said sometime in the past on a couple occasions that emulation is going to bring classic gaming to masses. And it is doing it in spades. And that is a good thing. One thing I was somewhat wrong on was that that sort of activity in the marketplace would bring increased accuracy, and better feature sets and all that. It has not. The monetized and commercialized emulators, plus the hardware they run on, are barely enough to get by. And they generate all sorts fodder for saying emulation is 2nd rate. Just read the reviews. Instead, the forefront of emulation is being developed at brisk pace by individual hobbyists partaking in open-source projects. The best way is to have a stylish i7 or i9 dedicated PC and some semi-custom controls to go with it. While a computer from wal-mart will run most emulators, there's many advantages to a deluxe rig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 You know Keat, there is something good know your store bought device is running licensed ROMs... Oooh, I just bought this new Flashback 8 Gold Activision. Yeah but I could have downloaded the No Intro Set off BJ's ROM imporium, 1000s of ROMs for free. I mean, look at this shiny new DVD I bought. Yeah, I could have gotten it from Pirate Bay, for free, but I prefer owning it. I just bought a car from the dealership when I could have hotwired some Jalopey for free... For the record, I have well over 32 Gb of ROMs sitting on my PC. I could cram them all, including GBA, on a 64Gb card. Most of em go in flashcarts though! Real hardware for the win! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 (edited) Yup I get it. My collection back in the day was extensive. At most of the parties and gatherings we host, most of the attendees are my age and are into the classics. So we're always giving away flashbacks all the time. A show of support in some way, if you will. Next if I can get the wife to open the purse I little more I'll send off something to select homebrewers and emu devs. Playing games from 1977 on modern 5GHz state-of-the-art hardware is a kind of magic, reaching back into the past and yanking it forward almost 45 years! Anyhow - real console hardware cause too many headaches for me. Too much tedium and too much mess'n around. Even if I went the flashcart route. And I prefer to operate in the digital domain entirely. One second I'm playing Doom PC, and the next, Basic Math or Slot Racers. That ability to move from system to system is something I'd never give up. Emulation for the win! Edited June 29, 2017 by Keatah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_me Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 I've said sometime in the past on a couple occasions that emulation is going to bring classic gaming to masses. And it is doing it in spades. And that is a good thing. One thing I was somewhat wrong on was that that sort of activity in the marketplace would bring increased accuracy, and better feature sets and all that. It has not. The monetized and commercialized emulators, plus the hardware they run on, are barely enough to get by. And they generate all sorts fodder for saying emulation is 2nd rate. Just read the reviews. Instead, the forefront of emulation is being developed at brisk pace by individual hobbyists partaking in open-source projects. The best way is to have a stylish i7 or i9 dedicated PC and some semi-custom controls to go with it. While a computer from wal-mart will run most emulators, there's many advantages to a deluxe rig. Mass market consumer electronics always brings junk. With or without it, there will always be the high end of software emulation and fpga hardware emulation. You know Keat, there is something good know your store bought device is running licensed ROMs... Oooh, I just bought this new Flashback 8 Gold Activision. Yeah but I could have downloaded the No Intro Set off BJ's ROM imporium, 1000s of ROMs for free. I mean, look at this shiny new DVD I bought. Yeah, I could have gotten it from Pirate Bay, for free, but I prefer owning it. I just bought a car from the dealership when I could have hotwired some Jalopey for free... For the record, I have well over 32 Gb of ROMs sitting on my PC. I could cram them all, including GBA, on a 64Gb card. Most of em go in flashcarts though! Real hardware for the win! You can do both; buy what licensed rom packages are available but use better emulators or flashcarts and roms from other sources. If the roms aren't available to buy than you have nothing to feel bad about. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godslabrat Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 Emulation experts-- how does this bode?? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoofu Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 PS3 would be software emulating PS1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FJosh Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 Lots of skepticism for this thing here. It's been shown in person running at a gaming expo in California, the photoshopped controller and all. I'm personally excited about this project. Yes, I can use my Shield TV to emulate all consoles up to N64/PS1 and even Dreamcast (same Nvidia X1 chip that's in the Nintendo Switch) but there's something about pushing a cartridge into a slot that just makes it different to me, purely a mental thing. I also have a SNES that gets upscaled via my AVR (Yamaha Aventage RX-A1020) and I've been planning on a Genesis but I'd be happy to have so many consoles wrapped in one package where I can just swap modules off my shelf for different systems. The older optical systems are not going to last as long as the cartridge based systems either. If it comes to fruition, great! I'll get one. If not, oh well. I'm pretty hopeful about it though. Way more hopeful than the I was about the Coleco Chameleon. The only thing giving me a bit of pause so far is the lack of info on how they're going about the requirement for a BIOS for the optical systems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 Emulation experts-- how does this bode?? IMG_5333.PNG Seems kinda pricey don't it? Used and new from $50. Bravo... https://www.amazon.com/Playstation-Memory-Card-Adapter-Cards-Sony/dp/B000JKXC6A/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepdreamin Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 (edited) Lots of skepticism for this thing here. It's been shown in person running at a gaming expo in California, the photoshopped controller and all. I'm personally excited about this project. Yes, I can use my Shield TV to emulate all consoles up to N64/PS1 and even Dreamcast (same Nvidia X1 chip that's in the Nintendo Switch) but there's something about pushing a cartridge into a slot that just makes it different to me, purely a mental thing. I also have a SNES that gets upscaled via my AVR (Yamaha Aventage RX-A1020) and I've been planning on a Genesis but I'd be happy to have so many consoles wrapped in one package where I can just swap modules off my shelf for different systems. The older optical systems are not going to last as long as the cartridge based systems either. If it comes to fruition, great! I'll get one. If not, oh well. I'm pretty hopeful about it though. Way more hopeful than the I was about the Coleco Chameleon. The only thing giving me a bit of pause so far is the lack of info on how they're going about the requirement for a BIOS for the optical systems. What if you just get some trashed consoles off eBay. Remove the cart slots and bolt them on your Nvideo shield. That way you can have all the nostalgia of carts sticking out everywhere without buying a redundant piece of equipment. Edited July 11, 2017 by keepdreamin 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FJosh Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 (edited) What if you just get some trashed consoles off eBay. Remove the cart slots and bolt them on your Nvideo shield. That way you can have all the nostalgia of carts sticking out everywhere without buying a redundant piece of equipment. Collecting carts and optical games without actually using them would just make me feel silly. It all does seem a little pointless when you can just do the same software emulation on a device you already have... well, because it is... I couldn't tell you why I'm still drawn to the idea. Edited July 11, 2017 by FJosh 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godslabrat Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 Lots of skepticism for this thing here. It's been shown in person running at a gaming expo in California, the photoshopped controller and all. I'm personally excited about this project. Yes, I can use my Shield TV to emulate all consoles up to N64/PS1 and even Dreamcast (same Nvidia X1 chip that's in the Nintendo Switch) but there's something about pushing a cartridge into a slot that just makes it different to me, purely a mental thing. I also have a SNES that gets upscaled via my AVR (Yamaha Aventage RX-A1020) and I've been planning on a Genesis but I'd be happy to have so many consoles wrapped in one package where I can just swap modules off my shelf for different systems. The older optical systems are not going to last as long as the cartridge based systems either. If it comes to fruition, great! I'll get one. If not, oh well. I'm pretty hopeful about it though. Way more hopeful than the I was about the Coleco Chameleon. The only thing giving me a bit of pause so far is the lack of info on how they're going about the requirement for a BIOS for the optical systems. What was shown at the convention was not a real prototype. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercylon Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 Seems kinda pricey don't it? Used and new from $50. Bravo... https://www.amazon.com/Playstation-Memory-Card-Adapter-Cards-Sony/dp/B000JKXC6A/ Right. Their solution is not a great one given that these go for some change even though the device is a one trick pony. I am fairly optimistic that nothing will come of this project in the long run. I still don't know what problem their product is trying to solve. Well, as long as they are not taking people's money at the moment, not much to see here. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 (edited) Collecting carts and optical games without actually using them would just make me feel silly. That's kinda funny. Edited July 11, 2017 by Keatah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 What if you just get some trashed consoles off eBay. Remove the cart slots and bolt them on your Nvideo shield. That way you can have all the nostalgia of carts sticking out everywhere without buying a redundant piece of equipment. That's even more funny! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tusecsy Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 (edited) ::crickets:: so is there some new just-another-emulator-box we can make fun of now that this one is dead? i think it's about time for one to pop it's head up. i surely had a lot of fun here. ::checks shillster81's feed:: oh....ataribox you say????? Edited August 2, 2017 by Tusecsy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godslabrat Posted August 27, 2017 Share Posted August 27, 2017 This is a REALLY softball interview, but it does give some information about the "hybrid emulation". Basically, saying that each module would have its own logic processors. If nothing else, that should mean the modules would be pretty expensive... http://thegww.com/q-a-the-polymega-with-bryan-bernal/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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