Ever have a 5200 game that just didn't work?

[CZroe]

I have a copy of Ms. Pac-Man that shows the game name on the Atari rainbow logo screen but then just blanks. It does this on my 4-port and my 2-port. I suspect that one of the ROM chips is bad. I traced continuity between eBay pin on another game with the same PCB and verified on the Ms. Pac-Man PCB (every ROM leg has continuity to the same leg on the other ROM and the card edge except one, which would be chip enable/chip select or whatever (each goes to it's own pin on the cart edge connector). I reflowed and added solder to both ROM chips on the top and the bottom sides. It still doesn't work.

 

Between these two games and four ROM chips three are AMI-produced ROMs and one is NCR-produced (didn't realize they made mask ROMs). Sure enough, the NCR one is on Ms. Pac-Man. Strangely, the legs look anodized black, but I can't imagine why they would be.

 

I recall that all of the failed copies of Sonic the Hedgehog Genesis I've seen were Japan-produced carts with chips that have a groove running the length of the chip and a big circle depression in the middle (like MOSEL SRAM chips), so I wonder if there is a similar trend we can identify here.

 

Has anyone else had a failed Atari 5200 cart? Does it also have an NCR chip in it? I do have a failed Atari 8-bit cart (Atari BASIC) and now I'm curious enough to check when I can dig it back out.

 

Another quick question: Do Atari 5200 ROMs use standard EPROM pinout or mask ROM pinout? Can I just drop in a replacement EPROM? If so, I'd appreciate any help with splitting the ROM file and identifying which data belongs on which chip. In this case it was the top chip.

Edited May 5, 2017 by CZroe

[SoundGammon]

I have a Missle Command that won't work. Have to find it to see what kind of chips it has.

 

EPROMs can be used if you use a 7404 inverter/buffer(?) chip on the chip select pin I believe.

[CZroe]

I have a Missle Command that won't work. Have to find it to see what kind of chips it has.

 

EPROMs can be used if you use a 7404 inverter/buffer(?) chip on the chip select pin I believe.

Thanks. If you haven't opened one before, they are held together by clips much like Famicom games, despite the screw. You would remove the screw and then work the clips loose using a thin spudger on the left or right side. Like a Famicom game, this is much easier if I squeeze the front shell on the connector side so that it flexes enough to undo the first clip.

 

There is also an EMI/RF shield but it just pops off. The spring mechanism is relatively easy to figure out if is comes off too.

 

In the mean time, I'll grumble about this forum setup. I see that autocorrect changed "every" to "eBay" above and I have an unclosed parenthesis. Why is my ability to edit limited to such a short time?

Edited May 5, 2017 by CZroe

[Lynxpro]

The only carts that won't work on my 4-port are Activision ones. Compared to the Parker Bros PCBs, Activision's suck.

[CZroe]

The only carts that won't work on my 4-port are Activision ones. Compared to the Parker Bros PCBs, Activision's suck.

I brought a boxed Atari 800XL home with a boxed copy of Pitfall II Lost Caverns so that I could test a few things between it, my older Atari 800, and my Atari BASIC Cartridge (which turned out to be non-functional). Within minutes, the 800XL had gone between working perfectly and not working at all. A freshly bent pin in the cartridge port was to blame and the only cartridge that had been in that system since it had been working was the same that it suddenly stopped working with: Pitfall II: Lost Caverns, an Activision cartridge complete with non-standard casing. It also stopped working without a cartridge because the bent pin was contacting opposite pin and preventing it from booting Memo Pad.

 

I desoldered t and ejected the pin to fix it but I still worry any time I insert an Activision game into a system.

Edited May 7, 2017 by CZroe

[Lentzquest]

I've only had problems with Rescue on Fractalus. I have one copy that works with a little bit of fidgeting, the other has never worked for me even though it's in pristine condition. Every other Atari release for the system works perfectly first time every time. Here's the board from the bad Fractalus:

 

[BassGuitari]

Incredibly, no. Some 3rd-party cartridges are tough to get to work, though, but they work.

[CZroe]

I've only had problems with Rescue on Fractalus. I have one copy that works with a little bit of fidgeting, the other has never worked for me even though it's in pristine condition. Every other Atari release for the system works perfectly first time every time. Here's the board from the bad Fractalus:

 

Interesting. It looks like this one has an NCR chip as well.

 

I don't want to jump the gun, but there may be something to the idea that NCR mask ROMs are prone to failure.

[0078265317]

I have a bad QBERT.

[ave1]

I have a bad Robotron 2084 and a bad Dreadnaught Factor.

[CZroe]

I have a bad QBERT.

I'm surprised any of these still work after seeing what the labels look like on my four different copies and seeing that there is no protection for the card edge. Only one even has a label and that's only because someone taped it back on way back in the day (still looks terrible)!

 

I have a bad Robotron 2084 and a bad Dreadnaught Factor.

Guess it's not terrible uncommon for Atari-produced carts to fail. If you're able to take them apart I'd love to see the board!

[CZroe]

You can see where I added solder to the top side too, so that's flux and not evidence of a burned chip. I didn't bother cleaning again since it still doesn't work.

 

Also, here's my non-destructive disassembly:

https://youtu.be/JXsr_exlmXM

 

For those times when a credit card is too thick and a razor is too sharp/weak/short, these metal spudger tools are extremely useful:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/162462547123

 

I got them for cellphone repairs but they've come in handy for many other things. Heck, they make particularly quick work of a 5200 controller, effortlessly popping the frame off of Start/Pause/Reset buttons before you can even blink and without risk of marring the plastic or stabbing the rubber. Easily separates the posts at the bottom too.

 

At $0.72 for two I'm not sure how they can pay eBay, PayPal, and postage fees, but they apparently can with room to profit. Worth getting a pair to have around even if you don't intend to take apart 5200 carts or controllers.

Edited May 13, 2017 by CZroe

[zylon]

The only 5200 fatality I've had was a Space Invaders cart. It just went screwy while playing and switched the positions of the player ship and the saucers. I sent it in with donor carts once to Al.

[NE146]

lol Yes! My 5200 Mspacman mysteriously stopped working somewhere around 1983/84 or so.. which was very disheartening. If I remember it had something loose/rattling inside so something must've broke off somehow. That cart is long gone by this point though.

Edited May 14, 2017 by NE146

[King_Salamon]

I've had an issue with a Zaxxon cart... I'm going to give it a cleaning but I fear it may be a dead cart. Quite unfortunate.

[CZroe]

Got another copy of 5200 Ms. Pac-Man. Like the other one it also has one NCR and one AMI ROM but unlike the other it works fine.

[ave1]

I'm surprised any of these still work after seeing what the labels look like on my four different copies and seeing that there is no protection for the card edge. Only one even has a label and that's only because someone taped it back on way back in the day (still looks terrible)!

 

Guess it's not terrible uncommon for Atari-produced carts to fail. If you're able to take them apart I'd love to see the board!

I will see if i can get around to it this week.

[MIKE5200]

My Moon Patrol starts and then stops freezes up makes a sound too. Tryied cleaning it but no help. Think its the chip?

[Tombstone]

Sadly, the only dead cart i've ever had over many years was a Meteorites cart.

[Keatah]

The black stuff, it's oxidation/corrosion. The more household cleaning chemicals in use the faster it happens.

[CZroe]

The black stuff, it's oxidation/corrosion. The more household cleaning chemicals in use the faster it happens.

It was only on one chip and only on the exposed parts of the leg. Looked exactly like anodized metal.