The Knight Rider 2600 project

[MegaManFan]

Nathan's scenario represents the best case scenario for licensing. The worst case scenario is that they won't license anything no matter how small without huge sums of cash up front (some big corporations like Fox are like that) and if you realize it under a similar name without their permission so that it's still obvious what it is, you could even get a cease and desist letter (they're neither as rare nor as common as people think, but they do happen to homebrews now and then). I do agree that 200 is definitely the high-water mark, but it's reasonable to assume a good homebrew can still sell 50-100 copies. Even a card game like Euchre moves units - my signed copy from AtariAge was #33 I think, and the game's been out for how long? That's pretty impressive.

[Simon]

Hi,

 

I'd recommend to learn programming and writing the entire game first. Afterwards you could estimate a sales-price and negotiate about licenses.

 

(8.) The game will feature some text, and this aspect may be expanded if the routines and memory permit.

 

Showing long texts in an 2600 game is one of the hardest tasks, as there is no charset or text-output available as on homecomputers.

 

"KITT, I need your help."

 

Best regards,

 

Simon

[+Andrew Davie]

I'd recommend to learn programming and writing the entire game first. Afterwards you could estimate a sales-price and negotiate about licenses.

 

 

I think we've all tried to say this in a nice way - but here's a typical blunt response for you: it will never happen. While you're toying with game designs and licensing fees and product/marketing analysis, etc., I'm convinced you really have absolutely no idea what it is like to program the '2600.

 

The absolute best thing you could do right now is try to write something - anything - on the '2600, and slowly work towards learning what things can and can't be done (most especially by YOU!) on the machine. That will mold your thinking about the game design, and what is and isn't possible. Basically, you're going at it arse backwards - sorry!

 

Right now nobody, but nobody, expects this to come to anything. Even us *ahem* legends... have great difficulty turning ideas - or even announced titles ... into reality. A newbie to '2600 (and pretty much a newbie to programming) isn't going to have an easier time at it.

 

So, save yourself the disappointment now - devote your time to learning, and experimenting - rather than to blue sky mining of sales figures.

 

Cheers

A

[Cybergoth]

Hi Andrew!

 

While I couldn't have said the truth any better than you just did -

 

Isn't what we see here exactly how "licensed" games work?

 

Greetings,

Manuel

[Thomas Jentzsch]

Maybe he is the exception of the rule and "Nomen est Omen":

 

HardWork!

[Thomas Jentzsch]

Showing long texts in an 2600 game is one of the hardest tasks, as there is no charset or text-output available as on homecomputers.  

Maybe it's not one of the hardest (anymore, because the code already exists) but definitely one of the most memory consuming tasks.

[Simon]

[Maybe it's not one of the hardest (anymore, because the code already exists) but definitely one of the most memory consuming tasks.

 

Well, let's express it in a different way: it's impossible to have text shown on a 2600 as you could show it on a homecomputer. It requires a lot of timing work in the coding to duplicate the sprites at the correct positions and a lot of memory to store the charset; and even then you end up with a flickering display that doesn't even cover the whole screen.

 

While a pure text-display on i.e. the C=64 (Screen-RAM $0400) would be the easiest thing, it's a hard task on 2600. I'd recommend starting 650x machine code on i.e. a C=64 until you know all of the instructions... it's much easier to test single instructions there.

 

Greetings,

 

Simon

[Ed Siegler]

I, for one, would love to have a copy.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

While a pure text-display on i.e. the C=64 (Screen-RAM $0400) would be the easiest thing...

lda #89

sta $400

lda #85

sta $401

lda #80

sta $402

[+Cafeman]

Putting eccessive text into a Knight Rider 2600 game is not a good idea! I envision it being much like Spy Hunter, but without shooting. Instead, you have defensive weapons and must catch the lead criminal car, swerving around oncoming traffic ... "Pursuit mode" !

 

What would really be awesome would be a combination of Spy Hunter and Bump & Jump, with Kitt chasing different vehicles in each mission.

 

And if you had the memory and desire, intersperse these scenes with Michael Knight beatem-ups, and detective code bonus rounds.

 

Come to think of it, a side-scrolling engine might be better than top-down for the Kitt racing, to differentiate it from Bump & Jump and Spy Hunter and to use the horizontal TV setup better. In "MY" imaginary KR game, that is.

[rasty]

Putting eccessive text into a Knight Rider 2600 game is not a good idea!  I envision it being much like Spy Hunter, but without shooting. Instead, you have defensive weapons and must catch the lead criminal car, swerving around oncoming traffic ... "Pursuit mode" !  

 

What would really be awesome would be a combination of Spy Hunter and Bump & Jump, with Kitt chasing different vehicles in each mission.  

 

And if you had the memory and desire, intersperse these scenes with Michael Knight beatem-ups, and detective code bonus rounds.

I would also appreciate having Michael take a short break between stages and visit Venice Beach with the Baywatch cast...

But then you'd probably have to release the game under the Mystique label

 

Besides, a Chase-HQ clone would not be bad at all...

 

Regards,

Rasty.-

[ziggystar]

Cafeman has a great Idea for a knight rider game. With the jumping and chasing and all. Just like on the show when the showed the side view of Kitt jumping things. Cool! But you gotta time it just right!

[Cybergoth]

Hi there!

 

 lda #89

 sta $400  

 lda #85

 sta $401

 lda #80

 sta $402

 

Yup²

 

Greetings,

Manuel

[+Cafeman]

Maybe with 5200 power we could even have Michael's hair!

[ziggystar]

With 5200 Power K.I.T.T. Could Talk!! So could his boss on the little video screen!

[ATARI TROLL]

make michael's hair the starup screen with a fuji parting the middle of it! or kit driving out of the part from fart away to a closeup shot!

[doron]

1.Is this a joke? then do go on.

 

2.If not, it's pretty sad.

 

(This is a start for an Eliza type program for the vcs. I'll just have to license it first. Do you think it'll sell by the bucketload?)

[EricBall]

Rather than heap on the negative comments, let me see if I can come up with some positive suggestions.

 

1. First, take the previous messages to heart. Programming the 2600 is not an easy task, the retro market is very small (100 units could be considered a platinum album), etc.

 

2. Next, start by setting reasonable short term objectives. Create a working development environment, program a simple demo and gradually work up to the pieces required for your game.

 

3. Try to dedicate some time to your project on a regular basis. (This is my biggest problem, very little spare time.)

 

4. Don't be afraid to put KR2600 on hold and work on something else. Many of us have more than one project on the go at once.

 

Given time and effort you will be able to create a 2600 game. It may not match the vision you have now, but some of that will be a result of the limitations of the 2600. (76 cycles per line to start with.)

[ziggystar]

Great ideas, Perhaps Eric, you could also elaborate on what tools and resources are availble to a beginner in 2600 programming. Such as which assembler to use, so basic "hello world" examples to go by etc...

[NovaXpress]

What we've proven here is that no one is going to get excited over a programmer who intends to try a 2600 game. Too many have had to give up when the reality of the task finally hit them.

 

If someone like Thomas or Andrew had made the same announcement, everyone would wet themselves with excitement because we know that they can deliver.

 

So good luck on the project, but don't even waste time thinking about liscensing (NO CHANCE IN HELL) and selling the game until you actually make one.

[HardWork]

Here is a condensed version of the current design document for KR2600 that I'm hammering out. THIS FORMULA IS IN EARLY STAGES OF CODING AND IS SUBJECT TO CHANGE. Get some coffee, and stay with me. It's difficult to explain this game in a linear fashion, so you may have to read it more than once to digest it. Follow the path for the basics.

 

(1.) The game will power up with a simple "Title" screen.

a.) The game must be played with the 2600 TouchPad. Here are the command keys:

TURBO BOOST

LASER

HOOK SHOT

SCANNER

KITT ICON

SUPER PURSUIT MODE

EMER. BRAKE SYSTEM

AUTO CRUISE

SATT. COMM.

b.) The gameplay is a combination of stunt driving, stealth tactics, fisticuffs, and resource management, all balanced with a countdown clock.

c.) The game's five domains are:

DRIVING MODE, (overhead stunt driving)

SCANNER / MAP SCREEN, (simple representations of the City)

Inside the HIDEOUT, (a'la Keystone Kapers)

Outside the HIDEOUT, (outdoor fisticuffs with an escaped GOON)

Two branching "text"-based ares: SATT COMM & KITT ICON. (mission variables, investigation)

d.) Note for DRIVING : Up to accelerate, Down for normal braking. L & R to dodge Traffic and Dangers. The fire button, or "trigger" on the Joypad is the standard Pursuit button, it provides a quick burst of speed. The TouchPad commands that affect Driving are TURBO BOOST, SUPER PURSUIT, EMER BRAKE, and AUTO CRUISE

 

(2.) The Goal of each "episode" is to locate and capture the BOSS. A BOSS is found by locating HIDEOUTS, infiltrating them and shaking down his GOONS. A captured GOON reveals BOSS info, and after a few cycles allows the player to ISSUE WARRANT - The game is over when the BOSS is captured in all the episodes. (see fig. 10) Or, when the MISSION TIME expires in any episode, or when KITT is destroyed in any episode. (one life)

 

(3.) The game begins when the player presses the "SATT COMM" button on the overlay. NEW MISSION is highlighted in red. The SATT COMM screen displays:

CALL FLAG TRUCK

ISSUE WARRANT

NEW MISSION

VACATION

a.) -NEW MISSION displays one or two words, describing a crime in progress-"DRUG TRAFFIC, ESPIANOGE, KIDNAPPING," etc. The player clicks the fire button to begin, and this takes us to DRIVING MODE.

b.) -ISSUE WARRANT is used when three GOONs are caught, and reveal info about thier BOSS (a'la Carmen Sandiego) See fig. 6b.,6c.,7b.

c.) -VACATION is an option to play the game in DRIVING MODE only. (practice mode)

 

(4.) Once in DRIVING MODE, the player sees an overhead P.O.V. of the "Highway" (a'la SpyHunter) The player cruises the Highway, & presses the SCANNER button at his leisure. This raises the MAP SCREEN.

a.) The bottom 25% of the DRIVING MODE screen is allotted for FUEL, SHIELD, AUTOPILOT units, and MISSION TIME. The FUEL bar slowly dips, and TIME counts backwards to Zero. The SHIELD bar dips when KITT plows thru Traffic, Roadblocks, Dangers, a bad Turbo Boost landing, etc. AUTOPILOT units (3 allotted) are used at the player's discretion.

 

(5.) The MAP SCREEN shows 1/6 of the City. The other 5 portions are Scanned when tapping up, down, left, & right on the D-pad. (a'la Superman 2600). The player sees various neighborhoods (Suburb, Slum, Downtown, Seaside, Docks, & Desert).

a.) In one of these neighborhoods, the player will find a HIDEOUT (red) where a GOON is holed up. He hits the KITT ICON on the overlay, to PLOT A COURSE to it.

 

(6.) The KITT ICON raises a black screen with "text" options in white, & the highlighted Action in red:

PLOT A COURSE

DATA BANK

GET ME OUT

a.) -PLOT A COURSE: When a HIDEOUT is located with the SCANNER / MAP SCREEN, the player presses the KITT ICON, and the player would choose PLOT A COURSE, and KITT will arrange the "route" to the HIDEOUT in DRIVING MODE. (The "route" is really just a bee-line, shorter or longer depending on which "neighborhood" the player is currently in.)

b.) -DATA BANK: This raises a screen, where info about the BOSS is deposited, one at a time.

(ex.) HE IS JOHN SMITH

HE IS GUN RUNNING

THE BOAT LEAVES TODAY

c.) Once the DATA BANK is full, The player hits the SATT COMM, and selects ISSUE WARRANT. The Warrant allows the player to find the BOSS HIDEOUT with the SCANNER. (see. fig 10)

d.) GET ME OUT: When the player is "caught" infiltrating a HIDEOUT, an alarm sounds, and the player is rushed by some of the GOON's henchmen. If the player is "pinned" by the attack, he may press the KITT ICON and select GET ME OUT. (see fig. 7c.)

 

(7.) When the player "arrives" at the HIDEOUT, the P.O.V. switches to a tri-level side view of the HIDEOUT's interior.

a.) The GOON is in the upper-right corner. There are "security cameras" posted throughout the three tiers. The player must avoid the camera's flashing "beams" of sight, by carefully moving under tables, hiding in doorways, or holding flat against a wall. The player must advance to the top of the screen without sounding the alarm. (a'la Metal Gear)

b.) If the player reaches the third floor undetected, he will fight the GOON into submission, who will reveal info about thier BOSS. (P.O.V. switches to a black screen with this info.) The player enters this info in the DATA BANK by pressing KITT ICON. (see fig. 6b.) The action returns to DRIVING MODE, and the investigation continues.

c.) After three GOONS have been shaken down, the player can ISSUE WARRANT to pursue and arrest the BOSS.

d.) However, if the player is CAUGHT while trying to reach the top of the screen, the ALARM is sounded, the GOON will escape, and the player will be rushed by a few henchmen. The player can fight them back, and must summon KITT to recover him.

( P.O.V. switches to the "neighborhood view", as seen on the MAP SCREEN. The player sees a black square--KITT-- race toward the HIDEOUT, and impact it.) The player is recovered, and will chase the GOON down in DRIVING MODE. This can be fun, but an escaped GOON will waste precious time, fuel, and causes damage to KITT. (see fig. 9)

 

(8.) When pursuing an escaped GOON in DRIVING MODE, the player could use SUPER PURSUIT and / or AUTO CRUISE to make better time. But again, this uses up TIME, FUEL, and AUTOPILOT resources.

a.) Using Normal acceleration, Super Pursuit, and Pursuit boosting all together results in very high speed, making the Drive very challenging. If the player panics, he can hit the AUTO CRUISE button, and KITT will take control of steering the car for a few seconds.

b.) The GOON drives a RED car that can be weakened by LASER shots, then pulled over with the HOOK SHOT, and stopped with Normal brake & EMER BRAKE. together.

The P.O.V. switches to a side view, (outdoors) where the player will run down, fight and interrogate the GOON, as he could have done in the HIDEOUT before this silly chase began.

c.) To fight with a GOON, the player pushes Up w/ fire button for punches, Down w/ fire button for kicks, Left (back) to block hits. The first party to land 10 hits is the winner. If the player wins, the GOON will submit info of his BOSS. If the GOON wins, he will escape to another HIDEOUT and must be found again.

 

(9.) THE FLAG TRUCK: At least once per mission, even when playing well, KITT will require service. KITT must be refueled and repaired to continue. (a'la Spy Hunter) If the player ignores this need, then KITT can be destroyed by further impact, and the game is over.

a.) The player presses the SATT COMM on the TouchPad, selecting CALL FLAG TRUCK, and KITT will immediately PLOT A COURSE to it. The player cruises in DRIVING MODE until they see the FLAG TRUCK, and touches KITT to it to dock.

b.) Docking with FLAG TRUCK will deduct ONE HOUR of mission time. The game returns to DRIVING MODE, and the investigation continues with the clock ticking down.

c.) If all FUEL is depleted, then the FLAG TRUCK arrives on it's own to refuel KITT, and this costs the player TWO HOURS of mission time. The sloppier the player drives, the more often KITT will need service, and all the more mission TIME is wasted.

 

(10.) BOSS CAPTURE: When the player has gathered three points of BOSS DATA from his GOONs, the player hits SATT COMM and selects ISSUE WARRANT. The BOSS is now visible on the SCANNER / MAP SCREEN, and KITT may PLOT A COURSE to his HIDEOUT.

a.) The BOSS is basicly another GOON with three variables: (1) That he must be found thru investigation, (2) He requires 20 "hits" in a Fight to subdue, whereas the player can only take 10, (3) The Episode is complete if he is defeated, & the player is victorious in that chapter. Upon "solving" the Episode, the player is treated to a brief message of congratulations, and the Game continues at the SATT COMM screen with NEW MISSION highlighted.

b.) When the player completes all available Episodes, he is treated to a specific message of congratulations, mention of a sequel, and the hard-earned words, "ALL MISSIONS COMPLETE, GAME OVER"

 

As for the code itself, I'm currently working on the countdown timer, and Title screen. I do have half a dozen other game concepts, one of them Knight Rider 5200.....

[Snider-man]

Errmm...OK. This should be interesting to see crammed into 4K. At least he has the gameplay hammered out. I mean REALLY hammered out.

[Cybergoth]

Hi there!

 

Errmm...OK. This should be interesting to see crammed into 4K.   At least he has the gameplay hammered out. I mean REALLY hammered out.

 

Yup, sounds pretty interesting. Might easily beat Oceans crappy C64 Knight Rider game :wink:

 

Edit: *lol*, being curious I just copied & pasted the concept into Textpad. It is with 8880 Bytes already too big for an 8K cartridge!!!

 

 

Greetings,

Manuel

[Nukey Shay]

No problem, if he's as dedicated to programming as he is as planning

[NovaXpress]

I can't wait for the real 2600 gurus to take a look at that document, but really why bother to go on with this?

 

Two possibilities: the guy has no concept of the 2600 whatsoever (just as he has no concept of the entertainment business and licensing) or it's another overly-dedicated troll (Airworld anyone???).

 

Wake me up when a proven 2600 programmer has something to announce.