New Atari Console that Ataribox?

[MrBeefy]

4 hours ago, Iron-Marine Soldier said:

Great...just an ATARI fan here on a site for...gulp...ATARI fans.

 

 

Make sure you check out the homebrew scenes here on the 2600 and 7800 they are freaking amazing at what they are doing. 7800 homebrews really given that console a second life. And I will let you in on a secret, you can like both Atari and tacos.

[MrBeefy]

4 hours ago, Iron-Marine Soldier said:

At least they see value in ATARI & their IP + Trademarks...and are trying to bring to market a new system. More Flashback units...10 already...or t-shirts & novelties is not what I want after 25 years without a new ATARI system. That is just my opinion though...someone who bought multiple ATARI systems(console/computer/handheld)...every one bought during their lifecycle & brand new. 

You might not want them but the Flashbacks must do quite well or they would have stopped them long ago. I would love to see them back too. But done right. Not to be out there just to say they are back. To me being back means nothing if the console the take os a flop.

[MrBeefy]

4 hours ago, Iron-Marine Soldier said:

My last new console on release day is the Original Xbox...yeah...I have quite a few unopened SEGA Dreamcast games(purchased when heavily discounted) & a couple of unopened Xbox games as well...stopped having time for “epic” games.  These last 20 years just went by very quick...I have reverted back to my arcade ways for the last 5+ years...video games that I can start and that I can completely walk away from. 

I was going through a very similar phase. My Ataris have got more play time dang near than any other system I have. Now I can say that is going to change now that I have a Switch. But I get the pick up play put down stuff. I know I said check out homebrews. If you have a 7800 you need to get a Rikki & Vikki cart before they are gone (under a 100 left I think). 

[MrBeefy]

3 hours ago, joeatari1 said:

According to Google there were 30 million "Flashback"units sold.  If Atari can manage a good fraction of that number, I would call that a success.

If they can, but there is quite a bit of difference in price between them too.

 

Do you think with how they've had a hard time getting this finalized, that they have the actual resources to get that fraction?

[OCAT]

$400 can buy 404 99c Tacos. Let me visualize that for you.

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[+frankodragon]

[AtariLeaf]

5 hours ago, MrBeefy said:

If they can, but there is quite a bit of difference in price between them too.

 

Do you think with how they've had a hard time getting this finalized, that they have the actual resources to get that fraction?

And it took atgames how many kicks at the can to get it, if not right, at least decent. Atari SA doesn't even have that kind of track record. That's pretty sad when you think about it. 

 

If they want to compete with flashbacks then the VCS shouldn't be more than $100

Edited July 24, 2020 by AtariLeaf

[digdugnate]

11 minutes ago, AtariLeaf said:

And it took atgames how many kicks at the can to get it, if not right, at least decent. Atari SA doesn't even have that kind of track record. That's pretty sad when you think about it. 

 

If they want to compete with flashbacks then the VCS shouldn't be more than $100

Something new, decent, and actually exists for public consumption that I like from ATGames is the Flashback Portable. 

 

It has a couple of things that I would ideally like to see changed (slightly larger display, better control pad), but it's a pretty cool device to play 2600 games on-the-go.  It didn't hurt that it was like $35, either. 

[themewsh]

8 hours ago, flickertail said:

 

 

But let's say it is, 1/4 of a Teraflop per console. That gives them access to 3,000 Teraflops of compute power to process Atari Tokens... a 3 Petaflop volunteer computing system... and they don't have to pay for any of that power.

 

Do you know you for sure that when you're playing updated versions of classic Atari games on the VCS, that you are not also running a crypto miner or something similar in the background? Be sure to read your license agreement when you open up the box that your VCS arrives in.

I definitely agree that the potential for abuse of trust is there. I brought this idea up a couple pages back and one of the responses was something along the lines “what?! Atari up potentially up to shady practices?”
 

I co-host an information security podcast at work and reached out the Atari PR people to try and get an interview around privacy and risk considerations surrounding the appliance/computer/tacobox, they declined. 
 

One of the things I was going to ask was specifically about was around this topic...if anyone gets one when/if this comes out Im hoping someone wants to run a pcap to share. I think we could have a lot of fun seeing exactly what this box is up to.

 

[+GoldLeader]

I'd rather have a Flashback any day of the week than a "New VCS",  and Yes I am still Angry nutari called it this...Actually I Do have a bunch of them and (maybe excluding the very first one) they are neat products, that had a vision, a raison d'etre (forgive the Americanization, I don't have the accents on my Netbook), a niche if you will, and even as a closed system, a plug and play, they have games!  All this in a cooler looking VCS type shell that cost a tenth of the tacobox...

[flickertail]

6 minutes ago, themewsh said:

One of the things I was going to ask was specifically about was around this topic...if anyone gets one when/if this comes out Im hoping someone wants to run a pcap to share. I think we could have a lot of fun seeing exactly what this box is up to.

I’d be willing to do a PCAP once my pre-order arrives.

[jerseystyle]

Look what I found in Boras! I can finally contribute to this thread.

[Iron-Marine Soldier]

10 hours ago, Bill Loguidice said:

That's not really a boatload and the Amico has already outsold the VCS in pre-orders. The VCS is sitting at maybe 10,000 or so backers (keeping in mind again we have to subtract a bit from the listed 11,597 Indiegogo backers because not all of those backed a system) and an untold number on a few retail sites. Knowing what I know about retail pre-orders, I would be surprised if they have more than a few thousand pre-orders at all retail sites. So, to be generous, let's say they're at least in the 12,000 system range so far. That's still under what the Amico has pre-sold. 

Now, no one, especially me, is thinking the Amico is going to do big numbers. Again, though, they have a clearly defined niche and have done a good job of going after that. I believe if their operations are lean enough, they can survive in the small niche that they've targeted. Atari, thus far - and again, this is nothing new - has yet to clearly define their own niche and has had waves of bad press driven by their own delays and missteps along the way. Hey, that stuff happens, of course, but that's still the reality. So, they're coming out of the gate when these do start to get out in the wild (whenever they can overcome the production delays, that is) with a poor start/image. Once out, they'll need to count on positive word of mouth from owners to spread and hope that some type of raison d'être emerges that they can build a marketing campaign around. Even then, in a world with mature Xbox One, PS4, and Nintendo Switch systems, and wildly popular mobile devices and established streaming boxes, etc., and the incoming PS5 and Xbox Series X and non-stop evolution of PCs, there's still no scenario where the VCS does the kinds of numbers that anyone will care about. If they manage to actually release this year, at best they'll have what, 15,000 units in the wild by early- to mid-2021? That's nothing. That kind of number is irrelevant.

Now, let's say everything breaks right like I mentioned above. There's positive owner word of mouth, there's finally a good marketing message around that newly uncovered raison d'être, and they get those 15,000 units out by early- to mid-2021. What then? What's the most optimistic projection? 500 units sold a month? 1000? More? And then what percentage are buying games or subscribing to services on the VCS? The Ouya did far more right and sold far more than the VCS can realistically hope to for a very long time and they couldn't get anyone to buy games. On an "open" system like the VCS, what incentive is there to buy much of anything if - as stated on here - many are getting it to put Windows or something other OS on. How then does Atari make more money? How then does it become a viable target for developers?

Again, I'm not making these statements or asking these questions to be antagonistic. I'm doing so to try and figure out where the path to success is. I think we can all agree that the logo/brand does not have the power it once had long ago, and certainly the last true console with the Atari name failed in a historic way for a major console. 

Where are your numbers for TT’s system? ATARI has been taking pre-orders at BOTH Walmart & GameStop...I kind of think you are speculating that TT’s system has more pre-orders...you don’t have the exact figures. 

[godslabrat]

7 hours ago, CPUWIZ said:

 

I was gonna buy something for you, but it wants to ship to me.  Oh well.

Well, thanks anyway.  It's a very kind thought.

[Iron-Marine Soldier]

10 hours ago, joeatari1 said:

Don't have tons of time to play anymore.  I have finished a few each on NES, Xbox, PS, Wii, Jag, Lynx...  Hoping to dedicate some more play time when the VCS is delivered.

I play a lot of mobile games right now...so ATARI’s system putting many of them on my living room big screen with good controllers is part of its appeal to me. Also...I have as close to a big screen CRT that you can get...Plasma-TV...that is non-Smart...so my ATARI VCS-800 will be my HTPC as well. Also, going to use it to stream music through my main home stereo which is just so much better sounding than even my very good JBL soundbar. 

[Iron-Marine Soldier]

7 hours ago, MrBeefy said:

I was going through a very similar phase. My Ataris have got more play time dang near than any other system I have. Now I can say that is going to change now that I have a Switch. But I get the pick up play put down stuff. I know I said check out homebrews. If you have a 7800 you need to get a Rikki & Vikki cart before they are gone (under a 100 left I think). 

Yeah...I have been tempted to get a few titles over the years...Rebooteroids being the one I probably want the most. That Robotron: 2084 for the 2600 also looks amazing for that system. One title that I have wanted since pretty much first buying my ATARI Jaguar in early 1994 is that BattleSphere...multi-player Star Raiders/Phaser Patrol...free-roam space battle game. I remember reading about that in EGM and waiting & waiting & waiting and then it gets a limited run release & didn’t know about it...bummer.  

Edited July 24, 2020 by Iron-Marine Soldier

[Iron-Marine Soldier]

11 hours ago, Bill Loguidice said:

That's not really a boatload and the Amico has already outsold the VCS in pre-orders. The VCS is sitting at maybe 10,000 or so backers (keeping in mind again we have to subtract a bit from the listed 11,597 Indiegogo backers because not all of those backed a system) and an untold number on a few retail sites. Knowing what I know about retail pre-orders, I would be surprised if they have more than a few thousand pre-orders at all retail sites. So, to be generous, let's say they're at least in the 12,000 system range so far. That's still under what the Amico has pre-sold. 

Now, no one, especially me, is thinking the Amico is going to do big numbers. Again, though, they have a clearly defined niche and have done a good job of going after that. I believe if their operations are lean enough, they can survive in the small niche that they've targeted. Atari, thus far - and again, this is nothing new - has yet to clearly define their own niche and has had waves of bad press driven by their own delays and missteps along the way. Hey, that stuff happens, of course, but that's still the reality. So, they're coming out of the gate when these do start to get out in the wild (whenever they can overcome the production delays, that is) with a poor start/image. Once out, they'll need to count on positive word of mouth from owners to spread and hope that some type of raison d'être emerges that they can build a marketing campaign around. Even then, in a world with mature Xbox One, PS4, and Nintendo Switch systems, and wildly popular mobile devices and established streaming boxes, etc., and the incoming PS5 and Xbox Series X and non-stop evolution of PCs, there's still no scenario where the VCS does the kinds of numbers that anyone will care about. If they manage to actually release this year, at best they'll have what, 15,000 units in the wild by early- to mid-2021? That's nothing. That kind of number is irrelevant.

Now, let's say everything breaks right like I mentioned above. There's positive owner word of mouth, there's finally a good marketing message around that newly uncovered raison d'être, and they get those 15,000 units out by early- to mid-2021. What then? What's the most optimistic projection? 500 units sold a month? 1000? More? And then what percentage are buying games or subscribing to services on the VCS? The Ouya did far more right and sold far more than the VCS can realistically hope to for a very long time and they couldn't get anyone to buy games. On an "open" system like the VCS, what incentive is there to buy much of anything if - as stated on here - many are getting it to put Windows or something other OS on. How then does Atari make more money? How then does it become a viable target for developers?

Again, I'm not making these statements or asking these questions to be antagonistic. I'm doing so to try and figure out where the path to success is. I think we can all agree that the logo/brand does not have the power it once had long ago, and certainly the last true console with the Atari name failed in a historic way for a major console. 

There’s a person who brought up the fact that ATARI missed the 16-bit home console era...when they just had their 16-bit Lynx handheld. He says that ATARI should have released the Panther to one up everyone earlier and with it being a home console as well...it would have kept ATARI in the home console market and allowed more development time for the Jaguar. Also...the 7800 should have been released in 1984...not 1986...but now I know about the legal dealings that caused this to happen...who was to pay for the design work on the system. Really...if ATARI was not sold separately...1 buyer kept both home & arcade divisions together and kept most of the plans intact...it would be a completely different story. But we are here now...

 

hey...I don’t believe Mattel’s last system did very well...the HyperScan or their one & only computer...and their “1” Intellivision system is 35 years removed instead of “just” 25 years. It is what it is. 

[Agamon]

Damn Gen Z-ers, thinking their Playstation/Xbox wars is something new need to get off our lawns! I was hating on the other guy before your parents were born!

[Bill Loguidice]

1 hour ago, Iron-Marine Soldier said:

There’s a person who brought up the fact that ATARI missed the 16-bit home console era...when they just had their 16-bit Lynx handheld. He says that ATARI should have released the Panther to one up everyone earlier and with it being a home console as well...it would have kept ATARI in the home console market and allowed more development time for the Jaguar. Also...the 7800 should have been released in 1984...not 1986...but now I know about the legal dealings that caused this to happen...who was to pay for the design work on the system. Really...if ATARI was not sold separately...1 buyer kept both home & arcade divisions together and kept most of the plans intact...it would be a completely different story. But we are here now...

 

hey...I don’t believe Mattel’s last system did very well...the HyperScan or their one & only computer...and their “1” Intellivision system is 35 years removed instead of “just” 25 years. It is what it is. 

OK, two things. I'm one of the people who has argued that Atari should have released the Panther as soon as possible to stay relevant. In my opinion, there was too much of a gap between the Atari 2600/7800's waning days and the Jaguar's release, particularly when it comes to having the developer/publisher relations in place to make a proper run with the Jaguar. Frankly, releasing the Panther at the mid-point of the Genesis/SNES battle might have caused Atari's demise sooner, but as we know, the Jaguar was no savior. (Side story to show how far Atari had fallen around the Jaguar's launch. I worked at Electronics Boutique at the time and corporate had sent around a survey to each of the stores asking what new systems we should or should not carry. The CD32 and Jaguar were on the list. The fact that a big US chain at the time, Electronics Boutique, would entertain NOT carrying an Atari console was pretty sobering. Of course, they did carry it, but then we only got a few titles on the shelves for the longest time, which is one of the reasons why it failed so hard. But enough about that...)

 

For the second thing, you're insisting on calling the Amico a Mattel system. Again, it has a loose connection to the Intellivision lineage. And if you know anything about the Hyperscan, you'll know it has no relevance to this discussion (and Mattel released three computers, but only one stand-alone). The key difference is that the Amico people are not relying on a known name to carry their system. They clearly state what their system is and use any associations with the small number of Intellivision fans as an enhancement, not really the focal point. Atari is relying on, well, the name Atari, as well as dredging up the VCS name, as well as the 400/800 designations. That to me, like in my side story, is telling. Again, it's a very different approach, a very different philosophy. On the Amico side, you have a company built around a console concept, which will live and die on that. On the Atari side, you have a company that survives mostly on leveraging its IP, with the VCS as one of many sidelines. (And again, I'm not really an Amico fan. I consider it more a curiosity where I can see where they have a path for success in their own modest way.)

Edited July 24, 2020 by Bill Loguidice
Adding in the clarification about Panther helping with having established developer/publisher relations heading into Jaguar

[Bill Loguidice]

1 hour ago, Iron-Marine Soldier said:

Where are your numbers for TT’s system? ATARI has been taking pre-orders at BOTH Walmart & GameStop...I kind of think you are speculating that TT’s system has more pre-orders...you don’t have the exact figures. 

It's all speculation, but we can make educated guesses based on the numbers publicly known. Back in April, Amico quickly passed 10,000 pre-orders: https://gamedaily.biz/article/1680/intellivision-amico-receives-10000-preorders-only-needs-180000-sold-to-hit-break-even-point

 

The 180,000 tipping point (and the 30,000 - 50,000 "being fine" point) referenced in the article is an example of how Amico is running a lean operation and knowing the limitations of their market. 

 

(By the way, the Amico is also available for pre-order at Gamestop, so it's the same as the VCS in that regard: https://www.gamestop.com/search/?q=amico&lang=default)

 

All we know on the VCS side is that they have around 10,000 Indiegogo console backers (figuring roughly 1,500 put in for non-system stuff). With the VCS being available at both Walmart and GameStop, I added in a few thousand more pre-orders at best (being VERY generous) knowing how pre-orders work at these retailers and factoring in the general reaction that is just a Google search away, as well as seen in how Atari's PR is basically in damage control mode. Again, there's no real buzz to drive pre-order adoption here. In fact, there's negative buzz at this point, again, due to a combination of factors, including the consistent delays.

[H.Hannig]

Over here in Europe Intellivision also has deals in place with MediaMarkt and Saturn. In case you haven't heard of MediaMarktSaturn:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaMarktSaturn_Retail_Group

And the Atari VCS? Nothing here. Even GameStop is not listing the VCS over here.

 

Edited July 24, 2020 by H.Hannig

[OCAT]

Coincidence? I think not. All is reveaved before it is time.

404 posts, 404 Tacos, Error 404 Atari VCS not found. Master plan is to dissapear overnight.

(allegedly)

[Downland1983]

18 hours ago, Agillig said:

My first was the 5200.  I knew lots of kids with the 2600.  No one I can remember had the 7800.  In my little corner of the world, the Lynx and Jaguar were complete non-entities.  We played Atari games at the arcade, and some home ports, but never had any reason to consider those two systems.

 

But yeah, Atari WAS an absolute juggernaut in the early 80's.  I'd say Atari was synonymous with video games, just like Nintendo was from 85 - 91.  I guess we'll have to see whether nostalgia for the brand is really that strong. 

My family got a 7800.  I think it was Christmas of 88'.  The only game I remember having for it was Pole Position II.  One of my older brother's friends brought over his NES and "The Legend of Zelda" one day, and my younger brother and I immediately started pining for that system.  We got an NES for Christmas the following year and the 7800 was quickly forgotten.

[Shaggy the Atarian]

20 hours ago, Iron-Marine Soldier said:

 

Thousands & thousands...more than whatever that Mattel system sells...for sure. Very few people had that system relative to all the ATARI systems that people owned or played in the arcade. Side by side...the one with the new modern ATARI joystick is going to sell...sorry...TT. 

It's fine to be enthusiastic about something, but there's this line that you cross into rose-color fanboyism where reality ceases to exist. You are using a bunch of logical fallacies to determine that the VCS will be some kind of unmitigated success (instead of a disaster). The data doesn't even support the VCS outselling the Ouya at this point, which was literally a name to pop-up out of nowhere, came with a much cheaper price tag, had lots of Android games, and it still came out as a dumpster fire.

 

To your notions that the VCS will sell because people have fond memories of playing the 2600 back in the day, you cannot equate sales of a different line of products, under a different company/team, from three/four decades ago to the situation today. Unless you are a time traveler from 1981 and don't realize that you're talking to people 39 years later.

 

We've already gone over how the VCS offers little value for the asking price. That's why we joke about tacos so much. Tacos give you value for what you pay for. So far, "ATARI" as you like to call them, has not. The VCS does not exist in some universe where there are no alternatives for what it can do. It's not the next iPhone of technology or the next "Wii" in gaming. It's not even a worthy successor to the Jaguar, which gaming at large does not consider to be a very high bar. 

 

You are also coming off as extremely snobbish or unaware of the current world situation right now - almost every country on the planet is reporting a decrease in their GDP due to the pandemic shutdowns. Millions are out of work, with possibly millions of small and large businesses closing their doors - forever. Bankruptcies are breaking records, which means that livelihoods are being severely damaged. Things will recover eventually, but when it comes to what people spend their money on, we're in a deflationary state right now. Entertainment products take a back seat to necessities. Saying that "$300-400" isn't a big deal is ridiculous, as most people and families - the kind of people you would want to buy a VCS - wouldn't agree.  If people are in a situation where they are struggling to pay for their rent right now, I can guarantee you that they aren't plotting to buy a PS5 either.

 

But at the end of the day, those who are in a stable or fine economic situation are going to look at their options. The VCS offers nothing of value that you can't easily get anywhere else, so whether you like it or not, the PS5/XSX/Switch are going to curbstomp it every time. 

 

Edited July 24, 2020 by Shaggy the Atarian
added a line, fixed a typo

[godslabrat]

7 hours ago, Iron-Marine Soldier said:

I play a lot of mobile games right now...so ATARI’s system putting many of them on my living room big screen with good controllers is part of its appeal to me. Also...I have as close to a big screen CRT that you can get...Plasma-TV...that is non-Smart...so my ATARI VCS-800 will be my HTPC as well. Also, going to use it to stream music through my main home stereo which is just so much better sounding than even my very good JBL soundbar. 

I hear what you're saying, but... why not make a HTPC out of what's available right now, out of better hardware, for less money?