New Atari Console that Ataribox?

[digdugnate]

i got the email too- good chuckle at 'selling out' as well.

[JBerel]

I just got a handy-dandy countdown clock in my email from Atari. Project go-time is Wednesday at 6 AM PT / 9 AM ET.

 

 

I'm all a twitter to see the astounding information release that they will need to come up with next week that will justify this as anything other than a con job. Atari will need to demonstrate they are prepared with a fully functional product to run off the assembly line and fulfill orders.

 

They're choosing, on their own initiative, to call these Pre-orders, and that email is a contract. That supersedes any crowdfunding site disclaimers, and they will be liable to every "purchaser" (who can demonstrate receipt of that email at least) to return their money if they cannot deliver. To fail to return fraudulently acquired funds constitutes theft. Their attorneys seem to be no better than Fergal's.

 

Unless they've kept some real accomplishments tightly under wraps, and they have at least a first assembly run of finished product ready to ship, they are dabbling in more dangerous territory than even the GameBand scammers. Honestly, having something to actually ship now, even if in very limited quantities, should be very possible with all the time they've spent on this and the relative simplicity of it. It would also be about the only thing that saves this groups reputation and puts them on any course toward credibility. I genuinely hope they are there and, if so, I'd gladly eat my words.

Edited May 24, 2018 by JBerel

[toiletunes]

I'm waiting for the countdown to "This product has been delayed/cancelled due to lack of $upport."

[racerx]

 

Atari will need to demonstrate they are prepared with a fully functional product to run off the assembly line and fulfill orders.

 

They're choosing, on their own initiative, to call these Pre-orders, and that email is a contract. That supersedes any crowdfunding site disclaimers, and they will be liable to every "purchaser" (who can demonstrate receipt of that email at least) to return their money if they cannot deliver. To fail to return fraudulently acquired funds constitutes theft. Their attorneys seem to be no better than Fergal's.

 

Unless they've kept some real accomplishments tightly under wraps, and they have at least a first assembly run of finished product ready to ship, they are dabbling in more dangerous territory than even the GameBand scammers. Honestly, having something to actually ship now, even if in very limited quantities, should be very possible with all the time they've spent on this and the relative simplicity of it. It would also be about the only thing that saves this groups reputation and puts them on any course toward credibility. I genuinely hope they are there and, if so, I'd gladly eat my words.

 

The obvious problem with this is that of course they don't have a finished product ready to ship, or they wouldn't be waiting 12 months to ship it. It makes one wonder what exactly they can possibly be showing off next week.

 

As far as the money goes, is anyone surprised the VCS is actually the spawn of Atari Gamebox LLC? If the whole thing blows up in their faces, Atari SA's hands stay clean(ish).

[+frankodragon]

I can imagine Atari SA playing Europe's The Final Countdown along with their launch date only with a record scratch stopping the music in the first 20 seconds.

[Flojomojo]

As far as the money goes, is anyone surprised the VCS is actually the spawn of Atari Gamebox LLC? If the whole thing blows up in their faces, Atari SA's hands stay clean(ish).

I am not a captain of industry, but I thought that was the main purpose of making this a Limited Liability Company. They'll obtain Other People's Money via crowdfunding, and if anything goes wrong, they can cut the LLC loose and claim it was never a part of them anyway. It shouldn't drag them into (yet another) bankruptcy if they set it up right.

 

From here, it doesn't seem like it's much good for anyone, except maybe AMD and IndieGogo who get cut in no matter what, as well as the people drawing a salary on the project, such as our Tempest-playing friend a few pages back, or the box-shower who gave an interview with Eurogamer across the street from GDC.

[pacman000]

I am not a captain of industry, but I thought that was the main purpose of making this a Limited Liability Company. They'll obtain Other People's Money via crowdfunding, and if anything goes wrong, they can cut the LLC loose and claim it was never a part of them anyway. It shouldn't drag them into (yet another) bankruptcy if they set it up right.

It's not entirely risk-free.

 

https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/piercing_the_corporate_veil

 

 

"Piercing the corporate veil" refers to a situation in which courts put aside limited liability and hold a corporation's shareholders or directors personally liable for the corporation’s actions or debts. Veil piercing is most common in close corporations.

Keep in mind piercing the veil isn't easy, but it does happen in certain situations, like under capitalization.

[jhd]

Realistically, no individual "purchaser" of this very possibly imaginary hardware is going to sue; the amounts of money involved are far too small to justify the time and filing fees required to go to court -- and this assumes that someone does it pro se rather than hiring counsel.

 

Even if someone successfully sues and receives a (default) judgement, it will be against a corporate shell company (established in another jurisdiction) with minimal or no assets, that is itself a subsidiary of an entity incorporated in another country.

 

I am quite certain that the legal team at Atari understands this concept very well.

 

 

They're choosing, on their own initiative, to call these Pre-orders, and that email is a contract. That supersedes any crowdfunding site disclaimers, and they will be liable to every "purchaser" (who can demonstrate receipt of that email at least) to return their money if they cannot deliver. To fail to return fraudulently acquired funds constitutes theft. Their attorneys seem to be no better than Fergal's.

 

I think that it might be a stretch to consider that e-mail message to constitute a formal contract, but there is an argument to be made. Does anyone know if the Carbolic Smoke Ball case is considered good law in the United States?

[JBerel]

You're right. It would appear their legal strategy is to enshroud themselves behind a newly created shell corporation so they can be as shifty as they like. Further evidence for any thinking person that this has boondoggle written all over it. We should keep a score sheet for the enthusiastic supporters who back this thing. If there's enough of those easy marks and willfully ignorant fanboys for @tawee to reach their goal, it will be priceless to watch them defend their enthusiasm as this thing rolls out to its inevitable conclusion.

[Inky]

So Atacobocks is a LTC? (Limited Taco Corporation)?

[godslabrat]

You're right. It would appear their legal strategy is to enshroud themselves behind a newly created shell corporation so they can be as shifty as they like. Further evidence for any thinking person that this has boondoggle written all over it. We should keep a score sheet for the enthusiastic supporters who back this thing. If there's enough of those easy marks and willfully ignorant fanboys for @tawee to reach their goal, it will be priceless to watch them defend their enthusiasm as this thing rolls out to its inevitable conclusion.

Of course, all the cheerleaders will completely disappear when this thing implodes. The only question is how long it takes for another misguided retroconsole to jump into the spotlight and start the process all over again.

[+thanatos]

So Atacobocks is a LTC? (Limited Taco Corporation)?

 

Tacos are Limitless!

[godslabrat]

I wonder if indiegogo will assume any responsibility for their platform being used as a "pre-order" service... since that's not technically what they do. If Atari commits fraud (or some variation) does indiegogo become complicit? They're already a zero-credibility Service, how much lower do they want to sink?

[Flojomojo]

I peeked at Indiegogo's terms the other day. In addition to their crowdfunding stuff, they also have a Marketplace for straight sales of ready-to-ship items, and they also run GoFundMe, which is more of a peer-to-peer charity. I wouldn't call them zero-credibility ... they're just the host for those who use them as a platform.

 

I prefer to keep my eyes on the actions of the AtariBox showrunners, not the highway they're driving on.

 

Thus far, they (Atari Game box LLC is their latest name, I think?) haven't earned any credibility.

[JBerel]

Meh...tired of taco banter.

 

From the Wikipedia article on Shell Corporations:

Abuse

Shell companies have been used to commit fraud, by repeatedly creating an empty shell company with a name similar to existing real companies, then running up the price of the empty shell and suddenly selling it (pump and dump).

There are also shell companies that were created for the purpose of owning assets and receiving income. The reasons behind creating such a shell company may include protection against litigation and/or tax benefits (some expenses that would not be deductible for an individual may be deductible for a corporation). Sometimes, shell companies are used for tax evasion or tax avoidance. (Shell companies can be used to transfer assets from one company into a new one, while leaving the liabilities in the former company.)

[PlaysWithWolves]

All this talk of shells has me hungry.

 

 

[BiffsGamingVideos]

I wonder if indiegogo will assume any responsibility for their platform being used as a "pre-order" service... since that's not technically what they do. If Atari commits fraud (or some variation) does indiegogo become complicit? They're already a zero-credibility Service, how much lower do they want to sink?

 

The way the US laws are set up, the host site is not responsible for what others do on it. So Atariage is not liable for any libel on their site, although the person comitting the libel is.

 

Now on TV, it's different. Each TV station is responsible for the content aired. So it someone pulls down a woman's top at the super bowl half time, then the FCC probably will fine each TV station that aired it (but their ruling differ by whoever is president at the time).

[JBerel]

[+KaeruYojimbo]

[JBerel]

Of course, all the cheerleaders will completely disappear when this thing implodes. The only question is how long it takes for another misguided retroconsole to jump into the spotlight and start the process all over again.

 

Coming Spring 2019 from your favorite back alley thug:

Intellibox

To be offered exclusively by pre-order in extremely limited quantities.

Full details available at http://amianidiot.com

[Dr Manhattan]

Still no specs. Still no game list. Still no developers list. Wow. Wednesday is really going to be fun!

[PlaysWithWolves]

I don't think this is what Atari meant by "share your excitement".

 

Still no specs. Still no game list. Still no developers list. Wow. Wednesday is really going to be fun!

 

[jhd]

From the Wikipedia article on Shell Corporations:

Abuse

Shell companies have been used to commit fraud, by repeatedly creating an empty shell company with a name similar to existing real companies, then running up the price of the empty shell and suddenly selling it (pump and dump).

 

Commencing in about the 1990s, there was a local political magazine/gossip rag that had an innovative strategy to avoid libel suits. Each issue was produced by a separate company.

 

So, Issue 1 Ltd. would be created, and before the magazine hit the newsstand, all of the assets would be transferred to Issue 2 Ltd, and so on and so forth. There was no point in suing the publisher of the issue as it was just an empty shell. In so far as I am aware, this strategy worked well for them -- I just discovered that the title is still being published.

[alexkeaton]

I am somebody that wanted to definetely order an Atari Console but i have to admit that in a few days the crowdfunding starts and there are still absolutely no information what this even is or what it can do.

At least they have to give some specs or some information.

Under this circumstances i can absolutely understand everybody if nobody wants to order one if even i am very concerned who wanted to take full risk.

What are they doing?

[JBerel]

 

Commencing in about the 1990s, there was a local political magazine/gossip rag that had an innovative strategy to avoid libel suits. Each issue was produced by a separate company.

 

So, Issue 1 Ltd. would be created, and before the magazine hit the newsstand, all of the assets would be transferred to Issue 2 Ltd, and so on and so forth. There was no point in suing the publisher of the issue as it was just an empty shell. In so far as I am aware, this strategy worked well for them -- I just discovered that the title is still being published.

 

Would that work for this mag....