New Atari Console that Ataribox?

[+x=usr(1536)]

 

No, it will alert you on your Speakerhat instead with text to speech.

You know, that makes perfect sense: alerts can only be delivered to hardware that actually exists. Now we just have to wait for the second one to appear and everything will be A-OK!

Edited November 12, 2017 by x=usr(1536)

[Schizophretard]

1) Nobody knows what Linux is. Go ask 100 people that have a X-Box and you might get 1-2 that even heard of Linux. Nobody cares. It will not increase sales at all.

 

No one knows what Atari is either. This forum has 43,850 members but ubuntu's forum has 2,072,407 and Linux Mint's forum has 104,522. And that is only 2 of many distros. That seems like a much bigger community than us Atari fans.

 

On the hardware side of things the Raspberry Pi is the best-selling British computer and the third best-selling computer everywhere with around 15 million sold. 15 million is something like if half of all the people that bought the Atari 2600 still owned one. That is a lot of people and everyone of them knows what Linux is. And that is just one of the many computers running Linux.

 

If this thing ever comes to be then it is likely to have a bigger Linux fan userbase than an Atari fan one.

[+x=usr(1536)]

No one knows what Atari is either. This forum has 43,850 members but ubuntu's forum has 2,072,407 and Linux Mint's forum has 104,522. And that is only 2 of many distros. That seems like a much bigger community than us Atari fans.

Unsurprising. Linux has managed to remain relevant over the course of the last 20 years; Atari hasn't except perhaps to people like us.

 

Linux also benefits from having a zero-dollar cost of entry (though not ongoing or embedded costs, but that's an entirely different discussion). Give just about anything other than herpes away for free and people will clamour to get it. Now ask them to pay $300 for the same thing (including herpes) and see what happens.

 

On the hardware side of things the Raspberry Pi is the best-selling British computer and the third best-selling computer everywhere with around 15 million sold. 15 million is something like if half of all the people that bought the Atari 2600 still owned one. That is a lot of people and everyone of them knows what Linux is. And that is just one of the many computers running Linux.

Here's the thing: the RasPi is a computer selling in the $5 to $35 range to a couple of very specific markets (education, home hobbyists). It's not a $300 game console, which is targeted at a completely different market altogether. Trying to convince people in the market for a RasPi that they should spend nearly nine times as much for a device that also happens to do RasPi-like things is a losing proposition for everyone involved.

 

And yes, I realise that my above maths are based on the price of a standalone RasPi board, not one with items like a case, storage, or power supply added on that actually make it useful. Add those in and close the gap in the price factor; it continues to not matter. A $65-$85 computer still isn't in competition with a $300 game console, regardless of the OS installed on either one.

 

If this thing ever comes to be then it is likely to have a bigger Linux fan userbase than an Atari fan one.

Doubtful. With the exception of people on Slashdot who spend their days trying to figure out how to cleverly insert currency symbols into the spellings of non-Linux-based software and hardware products' names, nobody cares.

 

Consider this: how many people do you believe actually care that their TV runs Linux? Or their phone? Or their car's sat-nav unit, or their bank's web server, or <insert other piece of technology here>? I'm sure that there's at least a couple of dozen. And that's nice for them, but to the rest of the world, they don't care how it works, just that it works.

Edited November 12, 2017 by x=usr(1536)

[SignGuy81]

And that's nice for them, but to the rest of the world, they don't care how it works, just that it works.

 

I believe firmly that if that were the case Windows 8 would have been very popular.

[pacman000]

Problem is Windows 8 didn't work the way consumers wanted it to.

[SignGuy81]

And a closed Ataribox would not work the way I want it to, and I'm sure a lot of others would feel the same.

[+x=usr(1536)]

I believe firmly that if that were the case Windows 8 would have been very popular.

Sure. But Windows 8 was a good example of end users not caring as long as it works in action: a good chunk of the populace who got burned by it went back to Windows 7. It didn't matter to most end users that they were stepping back an OS generation; all that mattered was that they could accomplish things with their computer that they wanted to do. What it did was more important to them than how it did it, even if how it did it was ultimately a part of the what it did equation.

 

That said, it's important to note that one of the huge nails in Windows 8's coffin - much like Vista before it - was its near-total rejection by enterprise environments. All of the very legitimate technical considerations surrounding Windows 8 aside, it had a UI that, at release, basically broke 17 years of end-user familiarity with interacting with the OS. There was virtually no IT department out there that was willing to shoulder the costs of support and retraining that the UI changes implied, and, in a large part due to this, it had next to no take-up at that end of the market as a result.

 

I understand what you're getting at, but the Desktop OS market behaves differently to the more specialised devices (and markets) my earlier comment was in reference to. There are definitely some parallels there, but I don't feel that direct comparisons are necessarily going to be accurate.

[+x=usr(1536)]

And a closed Ataribox would not work the way I want it to, and I'm sure a lot of others would feel the same.

Undoubtedly, and that's taken as understood. But you and I are at the thin end of the wedge on this one.

 

Looking at the cellphone sitting on my desk, it's rooted. So is the tablet next to it, as are a couple of other devices floating around here. Our PS3 was running Yellowdog Linux right up to Firmware 3.21, and there's other stuff I'm forgetting that has been similarly modified in pursuit of goals that weren't provided by the device in an out-of-the-box configuration.

 

The thing is, I can't see the 'open' designation being a selling point for all but a very small part of the market - at least, not for a device that's being sold as being primarily a gaming machine. That's not to say that the interest isn't there, but, historically, it's been a much, much smaller part of the purchasing demographic than people who just want to turn it on and play some games.

 

If someone can get a console to market that is 'open' (and that term still needs to be defined in this context; we're all kicking it around without any clear understanding of what it actually refers to), I'm 100% fine with that. But I am not convinced that Ataribox are the people who can do that with any level of success - or relevance if they do. It'll be a nice bullet point on the feature list, but not a primary motivator for purchase.

Edited November 12, 2017 by x=usr(1536)

[SignGuy81]

I see your points as well but this box really isn't really going to appeal to a lot of people anyway that already own better systems such as Xbox, PS, and Ninendo. Especially at the price point.

 

This device is going to appeal to the older crowd more than likely that grew up with Atari, most of which know how to work their way around an OS. And also this group of people already have closed systems too already and would see no need for another closed system, that does less than they already have.

 

So in my opinion the only way it can work is if it is an open system, but I could be wrong.

 

As far as Windows 8 I never switched at all, kept with Windows 7. They tried to make it to where the average person could just walk up to it and know what to do without any knowledge or much knowledge of computers, and sure it works for those users, but it wasn't for me.

[BiffsGamingVideos]

 

No one knows what Atari is either. This forum has 43,850 members but ubuntu's forum has 2,072,407 and Linux Mint's forum has 104,522. And that is only 2 of many distros. That seems like a much bigger community than us Atari fans.

 

On the hardware side of things the Raspberry Pi is the best-selling British computer and the third best-selling computer everywhere with around 15 million sold. 15 million is something like if half of all the people that bought the Atari 2600 still owned one. That is a lot of people and everyone of them knows what Linux is. And that is just one of the many computers running Linux.

 

If this thing ever comes to be then it is likely to have a bigger Linux fan userbase than an Atari fan one.

 

Those who use Linux already have Linux They won't be buying an Atari. They already have Linux computers. Also, most of them are outside the US particularly foreign governments. They take the source code and compile it themselves to avoid NSA/CIA hacking.

[BiffsGamingVideos]

 

 

 

 

"I see your points as well but this box really isn't really going to appeal to a lot of people anyway that already own better systems such as Xbox, PS, and Ninendo. "

How do you know that those systems are better? You don't even know the specs of the AtariMintBox. Geez, it's Fox news in here sometimes.

 

"As far as Windows 8 I never switched at all, kept with Windows 7. They tried to make it to where the average person could just walk up to it and know what to do without any knowledge or much knowledge of computers, and sure it works for those users, but it wasn't for me. "

 

Windows 8 was fine. You just needed a quick plug-in to make it look like Windows 7......and that's the problem. People just want it to work, not install stuff.

 

Edited November 12, 2017 by BiffsGamingVideos

[BiffsGamingVideos]

I'll be at freeplayflorida next weekend (who else will be there).

 

I'm thinking about doing some videos one of which is asking people what is Linux. Now, I would do it at the gas station, hotel employees, supermarket and such. Any bets that it'll be more than 2% cause I'll take it. and 1 out of 50 is probably too high.

[BiffsGamingVideos]

Here's a point I have made a number of times to teachers and authors. NO SHORTHAND IN CODE.

 

highScore = highScore + 1;

or

highScore =+

or

highScore x++;

or whatever.

 

I always do the longform. When I was in college I was told to always do the shorthand. When I read books, they usually do shorthand. They make it seem that longer code is wrong. It's not. A year from now I'll go back and try to figure out the code. Longhand is a a lot easier to understand. In your mind you have to convert it over, so why not just do it longhand from the beginning. As I was marked off for doing so I said this, "Does someone playing Angry Birds really care if you did X++;? No, he just wants it to be fun". My grade was then changed (but that is another story).

 

So the point is, it doesn't matter what is UNDER THE HOOD. What matters is what can it do for me. You can take a Chineese Quantum computer to play games, but if all it can do is Tic-Tac-Toe, then I'll pass. I can get a cheap $10 watch that'll do that. Only a few dorks care if it's a Linux. I'd bet almost no one know the CPU speed of a PlayStation or how much RAM a Switch has or the maximum heat temperature their video card can handle. What they care about is playing Grand Theft Auto, Angry Birds, Minecraft or BLASTO! Space Bombardiers (sorry, shameless plug).

Edited November 12, 2017 by BiffsGamingVideos

[+x=usr(1536)]

I see your points as well but this box really isn't really going to appeal to a lot of people anyway that already own better systems such as Xbox, PS, and Ninendo. Especially at the price point.

Yep, totally agreed. At a $149 price point, they'd have a better chance of selling to people who currently own consoles from the Big Three, especially given that at this point we're probably 12 to 18 months away from seeing any serious movement (but not necessarily sales) regarding next-gen consoles. There's a window of opportunity there, but only at the right price.

 

This device is going to appeal to the older crowd more than likely that grew up with Atari, most of which know how to work their way around an OS. And also this group of people already have closed systems too already and would see no need for another closed system, that does less than they already have.

 

So in my opinion the only way it can work is if it is an open system, but I could be wrong.

That's the thing: we (meaning the wider community in and beyond Atariage who grew up in the golden-age Atari eras) are a comparatively-small market. This means that if we really are the target demographic for the Ataribox, we're just not going to be sizeable enough to bring the price point down appreciably because the volume of demand necessary to do that simply isn't there. Whether or not this is something that Atariboxcorp, Inc. has factored into their pricing strategy or not, I really don't know. But it is at least going to be a factor.

 

So that begs the question of how to attract purchasers outside of the 35 to 55 age range that the majority of us likely fall into. There needs to be a value proposition other than 'play grandpa's video games on your 4K TV' for that to happen, and, despite the various supposed value-adds that have been mentioned in press releases, interviews, etc. I'm just not seeing where that value proposition is.

 

Now, as relates to an open system... That can definitely be a value-add, no question about it. But can it be the value proposition? This is where I'm iffy: it just doesn't appear to me to be the one thing that can really build momentum for the product.

 

But, hey, I've been wrong before. Guess we'll find out once it's had an ASIN assigned

 

As far as Windows 8 I never switched at all, kept with Windows 7. They tried to make it to where the average person could just walk up to it and know what to do without any knowledge or much knowledge of computers, and sure it works for those users, but it wasn't for me.

I've only ever really had to deal with Windows 8 from the enterprise IT standpoint (which basically boiled down to OH DEAR GOD NO NO NO GET IT OUT OF HERE NOW), so if my perspective on these things seems a little unusual, well, that might explain a few things

[SignGuy81]

I've only ever really had to deal with Windows 8 from the enterprise IT standpoint (which basically boiled down to OH DEAR GOD NO NO NO GET IT OUT OF HERE NOW), so if my perspective on these things seems a little unusual, well, that might explain a few things

 

I feel for you that you had to deal with Windows 8. Luckily I never had to deal with it I just seen it, was like "where is the task bar and start menu", didn't like the titled layout, and never even wanted to try it.

[+x=usr(1536)]

I feel for you that you had to deal with Windows 8. Luckily I never had to deal with it I just seen it, was like "where is the task bar and start menu", didn't like the titled layout, and never even wanted to try it.

Unfortunately, they also used it for Server 2012. Thankfully, Server 2016 rolled over to the Windows 10 interface, which is at least tolerable. That one's probably another 9 to 12 months away from being ready for mass deployment, though, so admins get to continue to suffer until then.

 

And don't even get me started on the Windows Server Core editions - no UI, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, and performance and stability have generally been pretty good. But we've found that the all-Powershell, all-the-time approach to administration that those use has some significant limitations of its own. But I digress...

Edited November 12, 2017 by x=usr(1536)

[leech]

Lucy's brother?

 

main-linus.png

Ha, nice. Funny thing is, Linux is the silent King of kernels. It is EVERYWHERE! Phones, servers, routers, etc. It is probablu the widest used kernel in the world at this point. Probably would be better off asking people if the have heard of Ubuntu, weirdlt is probably more known to people who are no t computer nerds. But there are always the nerds who try to figure out what operating system is running on a console.

[leech]

Unfortunately, they also used it for Server 2012. Thankfully, Server 2016 rolled over to the Windows 10 interface, which is at least tolerable. That one's probably another 9 to 12 months away from being ready for mass deployment, though, so admins get to continue to suffer until then.And don't even get me started on the Windows Server Core editions - no UI, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, and performance and stability have generally been pretty good. But we've found that the all-Powershell, all-the-time approach to administration that those use has some significant limitations of its own. But I digress...

UIs on a server are for wussies. Shell or GTFO.

Edited November 12, 2017 by leech

[Keatah]

So the point is, it doesn't matter what is UNDER THE HOOD. What matters is what can it do for me. You can take a Chineese Quantum computer to play games, but if all it can do is Tic-Tac-Toe, then I'll pass. I can get a cheap $10 watch that'll do that. Only a few dorks care if it's a Linux. I'd bet almost no one know the CPU speed of a PlayStation or how much RAM a Switch has or the maximum heat temperature their video card can handle. What they care about is playing Grand Theft Auto, Angry Birds, Minecraft or BLASTO! Space Bombardiers (sorry, shameless plug).

 

Yup. I'm a long-time enthusiast since the days of the Apple II and I don't even know all that stuff. I probably knew it when I spec'd out my PC builds. But I don't care much about it now. I just want my stuff to work.

[+x=usr(1536)]

UIs on a server are for wussies. Shell or GTFO.

And none of this nano crap (except maybe in PINE); vi or death Oh, and X doesn't belong on a server unless its job is to be an X server.

 

Powershell is one of those things that would be fine if it wasn't for how it was implemented. It can actually do some useful things, but it does them in some really annoying ways.

[leech]

Ha, though to be fair, I use Vim so much now that I curse the people at work who decided it was bloat on the base image and only install the stripped down Vi.

 

Everytime I see a Village Inn and their sign that says vi on it, I chuckle.

[leech]

Yup. I'm a long-time enthusiast since the days of the Apple II and I don't even know all that stuff. I probably knew it when I spec'd out my PC builds. But I don't care much about it now. I just want my stuff to work.

That was always the magic of console vs a computer. You stick in a cartridge, CD, whatever and it loads up and works. The current generation of consoles are more HTPC like in that they now handle multimedia and streaming services instead of just gaming. I think that is the saddest thing to me about the Ataribox though. Unless they plan on selling MicroSD cards with games on them, it will be an always connected device and instantly becomes useless if you have a ISP outage. Most game consoles are this way now too..

[Rhindle the Dragon]

...and instantly becomes useless if you have a ISP outage. Most game consoles are this way now too.

 

If this is what they're like nowadays, the console concept should just die. (Except for maybe Nintendo.) It's ridiculous and defeats the point of a console.

[Keatah]

Sometimes it's just plain'ol nice to play things instantly. Connected consoles always seem to have some delay in them. It's not actually the delay itself, that's annoying whatever the source of it. But it's annoying when you know it's going online for no good reason.

[Keatah]

Unless they plan on selling MicroSD cards with games on them, it will be an always connected device and instantly becomes useless if you have a ISP outage. Most game consoles are this way now too..

 

Has any major publisher used the SD/microSD as medium for distribution?